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Some thoughts on Islamophobia

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posted on May, 30 2017 @ 02:56 AM
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a reply to: eletheia
First of all, it´s always easy to come late and do a hit on a single post pulled away from the original perspective.


The prisons are FULL of thieves, murderer's, savages and whatnots .... are they all non believers. It would seem by your belief, no religious person ever sins?

That´s you putting words into my mouth! As soon as you remotely mention that one practices religion or tries to show the good sides, he´s a nutcase, he thinks bad about people of other religion or atheists and thinks the world is flat and the universe revolves around earth. If you reall want a discussion with me on that, please read the whole thread. It´s exeptionally disrespectful, because I´m also not badgering you to follow a region or judge/ridicule you. If you had payed the least amount of attention you could bring up you would have read further, instead of jumping the gun.

Seeing it in that light, there are the most WORST hypocrats in this thread I´ve ever seen, a real eye opener. Thank you. The only one that had at least some decency adressing me and kept a somehow friendly tone was Deaf Alien.
edit on 30-5-2017 by verschickter because: spelling error




posted on May, 30 2017 @ 05:09 AM
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Lets play devil's advocate.
Lets say we let muslims and islam do whatever they like in our western countries [ok, we are doing that already].
Lets say we let muslims live their muslim life in our countries [hang on...that's also been done] and let them teach islam in mosques that they are allowed to have in our completely different culture [I see a pattern].
Lets say we let muslims get into power, maybe as a mayor [hmmm, London] and we stifle all that is against islam by making it illegal [yawn].

Lets say we literally let them go ahead with their way of life.

What could the outcome be?

I want those that call me islamophobe really think about it [wrong word, if anything I HATE all religiions, especially islam but I am not scared of it].

Here are multiple possible answers:

a) They will integrate and start appreciating our culture that is so open minded, we let them do whatever they want and we all live in peace and harmony.

b) They will make sure our culture survives even if they become a majority, because they have such high esteem for non muslims.

c) They will make it law for muslims to stand up for infidels, women and gays and generally push to keep our British culture because they love it so much.

d) They will see our weakness and make sure at all cost that islam will conquer those areas of the world it hasn't conquered yet because that is the main goal of islam [to rule the world]?


If islam and islamic run countries are so great and worth living in, why is everyone coming to europe and lives with kaffirs and infidels?
If islam is so great, why are all strict islamic countries such s4itholes?

No religion should have any political power, they should be tolerated but punished when getting out of line. religion should be treated like a mental illness, accepted but not fit for making logical decisions.

We are right now in the middle of a religious war against islam. I don't care about peaceloving muslim's feelings, I care about my freedom that many men have died for in the past.

It's almost as if people think it can't be possible that there are people who would use violence to spread their religion, but we are talking about people who have a completely different mindset from us. They grew up differently, they have different values and most of all they take their religion really serious. It is almost like taking a time machine and bring back superstitious medieval peasants back to our time.

You can't change them. You can't convince them, because their neurons have grown and they are stuck like that. They are for real and not cartoon characters. Islam is the most dangerous religion ever invented by greedy and pathetic men, and I'll be damned if I welcome it with open arms.

However I predict by the sheer naivite of some people, we'll wear burkas in about 20 years.
Fortunately I am already older and won't have to live long under islamic rule. Your kids won't mind either because they, just like all other muslims, will be born into it and consider it normal.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 05:25 AM
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a reply to: Hecate666

Sadly the new Islamic immigration into other countries including the US are not here to embrace freedoms and our way of life, but to change it, shaped to their own believes and eventually dominate our cultures, that include all western nations.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 05:50 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: old_god

The numbers in your post are terribly inaccurate.

The 6% number is a referencing the percentage of terror attacks in the US. That study also is referencing things like vandalism as acts of terror.

When you look at deaths in the US from terror, recently the overwhelming amount is from Islamic terror.


Thus, what the FBI report is really saying is that a demographic which makes up only 1% of the American population accounts for one-fourth of all deadly terror attacks in the U.S. and 94% of related casualties! (The 94% statistic is somewhat ironic because it is the same figure than Loonwatch is touting to dispel concerns). The Jewish population in the U.S. is more than twice that of Muslims, but there were only three so-called Jewish attacks during the entire 25 years (all by the "Jewish Defense League") with a total of three killed.

Since 2005, there have been at least six additional deadly attacks that would probably qualify as terrorism in the U.S. even to the FBI. One was the 2012 shooting by a skinhead that resulted in six deaths at a Sikh temple and the other five were by Muslims, which left 19 dead. This means that since 1980, Muslims in the U.S. have been 35 times more likely to commit terror than all other demographics combined.

Now, the point of all this isn’t to "prove" that any particular person is dangerous. The numbers are quite low and it is unlikely that the Muslim you know personally is all that different from you, much less plotting mass murder. A person's nominal religion is not grounds for thinking a certain way about them or for reaching conclusions that are based on anything other than their own words or deeds.

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Worldwide, its not even close that the bulk of terrorists attacks are Islamic terror.

Many people on here are trying to have a civilized discussion, but you come in on your high horse declaring ATS to be illiterate bigots.

Your false statistics, virtue signalling and false sense of superiority have been noted. Sorry we can't impress you by ignoring reality like you chose to do.



Hi thank you for the reply :-)

Not my numbers, I quoted a friend of a friend who is studying this particular field (and has been for a number of years).

Let me clarify my strong words; when I say illiterate I mean those people who are not learned i.e. haven't taken the time to do some research or follow some link and back it up with related information, even if they are right or wrong, at least the took the steps to obtain information instead of just consuming and regurgitating the information.

You could be an academic and be illiterate simply because you choose not to do your homework, in a manner of speaking.

As for bigots, be real, ATS is full of bigotry and racism these days, mostly from some very ignorant people and again ignorance doesn't mean stupidity, it means someone who chooses to ignore something and then maybe also acts in an illiterate manner by not even bothering to do any kind of learning and failing to possess the tools to learn in the first place (like a desire).

I am not superior to anyone neither do I think so, you have to understand I may come across a little grumpy its because 1. I am old, 2. I am terminally ill and 3. I have a very short time left but I have been around long enough on ATS to see how its changed.

As for a high horse, I think its more like a donkey, a 2 foot high donkey and it makes a lot of noise.


A person's nominal religion is not grounds for thinking a certain way about them or for reaching conclusions that are based on anything other than their own words or deeds.


Great line actually, now onto my main point that I was going to make, I sincerely believe most people who commit these acts are mentally ill and/or traumatized in some way mentally. I have spent a little time studying serial killers lately, they are an interesting bunch but what is more interesting is how they all have something in common, they had some kind of mental trauma that caused their perception to become distorted for example Ted Bundy was exposed to pornography at a young age which led to him brutally raping and killing 27 women.

You talk about terrorism in the US yet when you compare it to some of the types of crimes committed in the US they pale in significance however the difference is the ideology (political and religious).

I believe these people, the terrorists, are mentally ill, traumatized by exposure to the sensationalist news in the media and from information overload through the internet they are unable to deal with the emotions and essentially fracture their psyche which stunts their ability to tell right from wrong.

Watching and hearing about death on the news is not healthy for any soul and eventually it takes a toll, even on people like us.

Good day!
edit on 30-5-2017 by old_god because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-5-2017 by old_god because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-5-2017 by old_god because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 06:07 AM
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originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

cause it is not their responsibility to shoulder that weight of stepping out to denounce it.

just like it is not any muslims responsibility to step out and denounce what another muslim person does.



I have a hard time with this one. If a white neo nazi starts acting out I feel it is in the best interests of everyone to denounce it. The MSM sure as hell expects us to. It's like there is a double standard.

I am hearing more and more though about these lone wolf terrorists being thrown out of mosques and reported for their terrible behaviours. This is a good start.

What concerns me about this ideology is that disenfranchised youth of all stripes can be drawn to the calling of Allah Snackbar. Im seeing a lot of so called terrorists who have no islamic background at all making the news lately.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 06:45 AM
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originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
Might as well call me islamophobic. Don't care if I am. While the billion muslims in the world don't bother me. 20% of that global population are sympathetic to terrorism even if they do not directly or indirectly support it.

So that is still a lot of bad apples in that mix of good ones. I will keep to having an extra pair of eyes on the back of my head and a concealed weapon on my side ready for any crazy moron that wants to die for a religion. I will happily oblige him or her on a quick trip to hell if it comes to fruition.

I will always remain suspicious of any muslim person that I happen to come accross. I don't go around making it known either.


So you are saying that thinking the thought is the same as doing the deed? Besides that 20% number is pure BS. They polled a couple of thousand people and that speaks for almost two billion. Who would be stupid enough to believe that?


OK...so if you are so knowledgeable...tell us the number. Then show your proof. You know...facts. Because if you can't or won't, then you have no frickin' idea if the number is right or wrong. Do you?



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 06:52 AM
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Part of the problem with Islam is the many layers of views. I'm just pulling numbers out of my ass for example's sake. But lets say 5% of Muslims believe in radical Islam and are willing to martyr themselves.

1. How many support the views of this 5% but won't martyr themselves?
2. How many provide money, time, etc. to support the 5%?
3. How many believe gays should be killed?
4. How many believe women are property?
5. How many believe Islam should be the only religion...and law?
6. How many wish to change other societies to Islam religion and law?
7. How many think infidels should be taxed, killed?
8. How many DON'T agree but turn a blind eye and won't help stop them?
9. Etc...you get the idea.

Now...what does that add to that 5%? What is the percentage of those who support or turn a blind eye to the 5%? 20%? 50%...you tell me. But THAT number is the enemy. The enemy of every other religion...the enemy of every other system of laws...the enemy of peace.

So if you believe that 51% is possible, which I believe is possible when counting the world...Islam would be at least in a majority of the Islamic people...the religion of evil.
edit on 5/30/2017 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 06:54 AM
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originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
Might as well call me islamophobic. Don't care if I am. While the billion muslims in the world don't bother me. 20% of that global population are sympathetic to terrorism even if they do not directly or indirectly support it.

So that is still a lot of bad apples in that mix of good ones. I will keep to having an extra pair of eyes on the back of my head and a concealed weapon on my side ready for any crazy moron that wants to die for a religion. I will happily oblige him or her on a quick trip to hell if it comes to fruition.

I will always remain suspicious of any muslim person that I happen to come accross. I don't go around making it known either.


So you are saying that thinking the thought is the same as doing the deed? Besides that 20% number is pure BS. They polled a couple of thousand people and that speaks for almost two billion. Who would be stupid enough to believe that?


2,000 is enough to get a read on 2billion people, depending on how the sample was taken. Very close to the requirement actually to get a 99% confidence in the result to +/- 3% accuracy.

Maybe brush up on your statistics.

If your argument is that the sampling itself was skewed as opposed to the number not being enough, that would be more reasonable.
edit on 30/5/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
Might as well call me islamophobic. Don't care if I am. While the billion muslims in the world don't bother me. 20% of that global population are sympathetic to terrorism even if they do not directly or indirectly support it.

So that is still a lot of bad apples in that mix of good ones. I will keep to having an extra pair of eyes on the back of my head and a concealed weapon on my side ready for any crazy moron that wants to die for a religion. I will happily oblige him or her on a quick trip to hell if it comes to fruition.

I will always remain suspicious of any muslim person that I happen to come accross. I don't go around making it known either.


So you are saying that thinking the thought is the same as doing the deed? Besides that 20% number is pure BS. They polled a couple of thousand people and that speaks for almost two billion. Who would be stupid enough to believe that?


OK...so if you are so knowledgeable...tell us the number. Then show your proof. You know...facts. Because if you can't or won't, then you have no frickin' idea if the number is right or wrong. Do you?


For reference the actual sample size required is 1,849 to be 99% confident in the result to a variance of +/-3%.
Obviously the sampling method itself - how those 1,849 are selected - is imperative but the sample volume argument is spurious and is often made by those who don't understand sampling and statistics.
edit on 30/5/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:11 AM
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a reply to: Hecate666


Lets say we literally let them go ahead with their way of life.

What could the outcome be?


I cannot predict the future but a comparison to the past with today makes it obvious.



Picture taken from article called : Letter from Iranian Woman 2014

Peace
edit on 30-5-2017 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: Dawgishly

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well said. I agree.

But what can't be ignored is the statistical correlation. It's a consequence of regional and cultural politics. In the south, you have Christians who have a different culture than in the north and some think much like ISIS and would behave like them if legally allowed. Now imagine if our political and legal culture in the US was like one of the ultra conservative nations in the Middle East. The Christians here would behave just like the extremists, using the Christian bible to justify killing (as it commands Christians to do).

On the flip side, you have countless Muslim living in western civilization cultures (and everywhere, really) who are indistinguishable from Christians in terms of carrying out their spirituality in peaceful ways.

But it is the way it is and it can't be ignored. There's nothing inherently unique about Islam that makes it more violent than Christianity; it's just a matter of the cultures in which it is practiced.


Nowhere in the Gospel does Christ urge us to murder. More equivocal BS lies from the left.


Are you #ting me? The old testament is filled with commands to murder, rape, and destroy.

Either Jesus is the OT god and said those things or he's not. Which is it?



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: Hecate666


Lets say we literally let them go ahead with their way of life.

What could the outcome be?


I cannot predict the future but a comparison to the past with today makes it obvious.



Picture taken from article called : Letter from Iranian Woman 2014

Peace


The difference in those photos isn't religion; it's secular government being replaced with a theocratic one.

If the most hardcore fundamentalists of any major religion were to take over a secular government, we'd see similar changes.

It's crazy what a little foreign meddling can do when putting people into power, isn't it? Ahem...



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:50 AM
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Okay, here is my stance... and not from learning it from MSM or Alt News sources, rather with my own eyeballs, my reading of Quran and US Constitution...

first off, I've served in Iraq - Islam is a horrible and barbaric religion. period. don't agree? read their holy scripture, laws, etc... their words not mine.

you might say, hey bud, there are some cool muslims out there who are not all about violence and stuff. and I agree 100%. but it's time for those muslims to have a reformation, break off and change it up a bit. The Christians did it when they didn't agree with the Catholic church in England and didn't get everything they wanted when King James authorized the new version, so they took their Geneva and went to America. Protestant reformation.

Until I see Islamic leaders stand up and take control and or reform their practices, they are all of the same fold to me.

final note, parting thoughts, Quran, verbatim, is unconstitutional and is not protected under 1st Amendment because it's laws promote things that are protected in our founding documents... slavery, due process, fair trial, free speech, the list goes on and on and on and on.

Don't believe me? google some Quran verses, again, their words not mine.

Quran speaks for itself.

So by accepting a religion that goes against nearly every aspect of our Constitution, aka law of the land, is a little crazy to me.

Ask yourself, is a religion, that goes against everything in the Constitution, protected by it's rights?


Until you've really studied the quran, holy bible, and spent time in Islamic countries.... shut up and turn off msnbc, foxnews, cnn, infowars, etc and learn for yourself.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:55 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Dawgishly

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well said. I agree.

But what can't be ignored is the statistical correlation. It's a consequence of regional and cultural politics. In the south, you have Christians who have a different culture than in the north and some think much like ISIS and would behave like them if legally allowed. Now imagine if our political and legal culture in the US was like one of the ultra conservative nations in the Middle East. The Christians here would behave just like the extremists, using the Christian bible to justify killing (as it commands Christians to do).

On the flip side, you have countless Muslim living in western civilization cultures (and everywhere, really) who are indistinguishable from Christians in terms of carrying out their spirituality in peaceful ways.

But it is the way it is and it can't be ignored. There's nothing inherently unique about Islam that makes it more violent than Christianity; it's just a matter of the cultures in which it is practiced.


Nowhere in the Gospel does Christ urge us to murder. More equivocal BS lies from the left.


Are you #ting me? The old testament is filled with commands to murder, rape, and destroy.

Either Jesus is the OT god and said those things or he's not. Which is it?
.


You are correct in your assessment of the OT, however, you've clearly read half a book and are making assumptions without knowing the rest of it. the Old Testament (old covenant) has been renewed and replaced with the NT (new covenant) aka the redemptive blood of Jesus Christ. Christianity does not follow levite laws to get to Abrahams bosom. we repent our sins to the only begotten son of God, who sacrificed himself for all the sin, hate, and evil in the world who will ever be born. including those who hate him. Salvation, it's just sitting there waiting to be picked up by you if you'd humble yourself, confess your evils, and ask Jesus into your heart- then try and live a life following his teachings of loving one another, spreading peace, joy, and happiness... yup, that sounds exactly like Islam....

Christians spread the Gospel because they love you and want to you have eternal life in heaven. though many Christians are not so good at this commission, that is generally the idea. Those nasty evil Christians care about your soul.

Muslims, hate you because you don't share their religion and will kill you. However, the Quran instructs them to do it mercifully, strike above the neck, so you don't feel pain. they are so thoughtful!
edit on 30-5-2017 by TheErlenmeyerFlask because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:57 AM
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a reply to: Abysha


The difference in those photos isn't religion; it's secular government being replaced with a theocratic one.


Just call it as to what it is. It is a democracy that is deeply influenced by Islamic law (Sharia).

Peace



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: TheErlenmeyerFlask

If you believe that Muslim holy books can only have one interpretation while your religion can have as many as people on the planet then you are one of the people the OP is talking about. Both religions are awful and have awful commands in their books that awful people use to justify awful behavior (notice a pattern here?).
edit on 30-5-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

What?

I said that muslims should (and one day will, have a reformation with many many many different denominations) like Protestants.

So we are in agreement in that or no? I'm confused



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 08:03 AM
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parting wisdom - for it is sorely needed on this thread...

Phobia - an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something


Pretty sure our dislike of Islam is not irrational or extreme. it's well founded and factual. I don't like people who hurt women and mutilate little girl's vaginas. call me irrational I guess.

Also, I went there and fought them... I'm wasn't afraid, no fear, and i'd do it again if needed.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: Abysha


The difference in those photos isn't religion; it's secular government being replaced with a theocratic one.


Just call it as to what it is. It is a democracy that is deeply influenced by Islamic law (Sharia).

Peace


Well, yeah.

But why isn't Israel like that? Their holy books are just as violent.

It's because there are secularized.



posted on May, 30 2017 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: Joneselius

Westboro Baptist Church uses the bible to hate on gay people every time they have a protest, bible verses and all. While not on the same level as killing people, why should you have to apologize for the WBC's actions and hate? Why should your average Muslim have to apologize for the actions of a monstrosity that has hijacked their religion?

Unless the OT is now totally irrelevant, Yahweh ordered the killing of women, children and infants in those days, no mercy whatsoever.


Numbers 23
19 God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?


Is this still relevant today? If so, why is God ultimately merciful in the NT yet merciless to women and children in the OT? Seems like a pretty big change in character if you ask me.

But I know you've heard it a thousand times already and are probably already immune so I'll leave it at that. I hope you have a great day.

edit on 5/30/2017 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



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