German Chancellor Merkel Warns; US & Britain no longer reliable partners

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Groot

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: Groot
Dear god the arrogance and ignorance is outstanding, when the # has American done anything for Europe that wasn't to benefit itself?

Um, Guess we should have sat at home in twiddled our thumbs in WW II ?

Well, seeing as you had to bring it up.... you did for a couple of years until you got your act together and realised there was profit to be made. Yes, lots of brave people from many countries lost their lives in the conflict, but not many countries made money out of it.

Do any Americans learn actual history? It's a good job the Russians didn't twiddle their thumbs, and a better job that the RAF kept the uk skies safe while Joe Kennedy was urging his president not to join the war as he was sure there would soon be swastikas hanging from lamp posts in Downing street.

I seriously find it weird how little some on here seem to know about actual history compared to history via Hollywood or HBO.

There was no driver for the US to enter WW2 even though FDR knew it would come to that. Many US citizens went to Canada and enlisted but politics prevented the US declaring war. "Getting our act together" required an actual event to cause such a thing. December 7, 1941 provided such and Germany jumped in a day or so later. Churchill rejoiced. "Lend lease" had started the ball rolling and we had to wait for the rest. Fortunately, GB dumped Chamberlain and got themselves an irascible English Bulldog to lead them. Churchill was the best man for the job. Hitler wanted GB to join him as British royalty had been German for generations [e.g., Battenberg = Mount Batten] Later, while the Germans were sitting on the Channel thinking about things, Herr Hitler's foray into the Soviet Union was what really caused the Nazi downfall. Without the Soviet Union sacrificing millions in the "Great Patriotic War" there may well have been a thousand year Reich. The Soviets were inadvertently responsible for Victory in Europe.
The US provided materials, food, and fuel to the Allies. British technology was quickly adopted by the US. The Ultra Secret and Turing made all the Allied Generals look far better than they were and was likely a key to many victories. The only time Ultra was sidestepped was called the Battle of the Bulge. The P51 with the Merlin engine was one of the best planes of WW2. The Mossie was a fantastic aircraft born of circumstance.
Montgomery was where he was because of who he knew and not what a great general he was. Eisenhower was the best choice for C-in-C because he wasn't a Montgomery.
In the Pacific, the US shouldered the brunt of things. The fortunes of war smiled on the battle of Midway and Leyte Gulf but Japan did not really have the manufacturing capability to sustain a long term war. VJ day was primarily a US victory.

Any revisions to this history?

a reply to: Lucidparadox
how is this lady respected she is responsible for all the bad crap going on in europe right now for opening the flood gates and letting in these muslim extremists masquerading as refugees. i have friends who are german expats and they tell me the regular blue collar folks in germany can not stand her. yes the president didn't swing her way and he shouldn't he is the american president he should not sign any deals that is going to hut american jobs.

a reply to: WilsonWilsonlets see we kept germans from running over europe during first world war and we with the help or russians and brits stopped the nazis from turning all of europe into the reich land and we kept russia from annexing all of it after the second world war yes we got some benefit but we paid alot into it too economically and we the blood of our soldiers.

a reply to: pteridine

That´s true, if not for the russian winter war, we would be in big trouble now, as sad as it is for the people that lost their lives on both sided. Most were just canon fodder and tools forced to fight.

there was this meme years ago
"US - joins war years later"
+
"act like they won the war single handed".

a reply to: proteus33
As Merkin is so concerned over climate accords maybe she should have a little look see at those emission stats for all those Volkswagens they've pimped out as being environmentally friendly. Iceberg - tip of. Does anyone genuinely get the manufacturer claimed mpg? All that extra electronic crap that isn't needed and adds weight and cost.
I'm all for efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions but unless technology is freely shared to developing nations who can only afford to produce energy by basically burning stuff we're screwed and it will never change.
Profit forces so many products to be made overseas in countries that simply don't care and use pretty much openly use cheap/child/slave labour.
Unless corporations are hit for making crap overseas to avoid taxes and regulations there will not be a change. Bring manufacturing home or at least set up with our allies.

a reply to: verschickter

While its true that playing up the American side (I am american) is a bit of an insult to those that held the line till we got there... Dismissing our contributions (like many euros I have met living in germany) is also an insult to those that bled and died and never returned home.

True it took us a while, but we still supplied equipment to the Russians and the Brits that most assuredly had an impact on the ability of both to continue fighting the war.

(before the we should have just given them the equipment for free folks start, congress was against us entering the war, and so was a large segment of the population, lend lease is what they could do and get approval for)

It is a shame that in this day and age when we have so much information at our hands, so many people still get hung up on the my side is better, when looking at the history of the two world wars.

I was absolutely blown away by the village of Margraten, and the love and respect shown to those that gave all for them to have control over their lives again.

I am rambling now so I will slide off in search of some whiskey again.

a reply to: Irishhaf
In no way I wanted to downplay anything, I´m apologizing for that, it was not intended! Honestly.

a reply to: verschickter

No worries... always have a few thinking about folks I know that went to the desert and either did not come home, or came home broken beyond repair... I am probably more than a little sensitive about it on my best day.

a reply to: Agartha

Oh, the irony indeed.. great post.

a reply to: underwerks i don't and shouldn't give two donkey turds whether my president is popular around the globe we elected him to try to stabalize the dismal shape the country has become in the last 16 years. bush and obama basically kept us in wars and nation building for no good reason while sleeping with the saudis the real state sponsors of the 9/11 attacks plus there runaway spending . so you country doesn't like him because he speaks his mind and will not like your butt oh well sorry but we elected someone who thinks about our countries concerns first

About time she wakes up!

We helped with these stupid wars in the ME, which are in chaos ever since and look how many people fleeing those country's came/come to Europe, since Europe is/was in the back pocket of the US, ever since WWII. Of course also not forget all those people which died/wounded and displaced etc.

In Trump words, this is sad, really sad!.. but really come on!! this is such a crime on humanity!! but no, no never shame or feeling really bad about these actions in the ME!!! come on!! this is beyond words!

Also look at that bank crisis with those bank products rated AAA and Europe banks bought those products and so where heavily affected and took allot of that damage.. and even country's being downgraded because of that (again by US rating company's).

So now Trump says which is btw just in back pocket from US big money (banks/military industry and so on), sadly.. (not really that different so it seems then previous presidents).

''Trump reportedly calls Germans 'very bad,' threatens to end German car sales Trump reportedly calls Germans 'very bad,' threatens to end German car sales. President Donald Trump has reportedly reignited tensions with his EU counterparts after calling the Germans "very bad" for their trade surplus with the U.S. The president vowed to block German car exports to the U.S. during a meeting with top EU leaders on Thursday, according to German news magazine Der Spiegel. "The Germans are bad, very bad," Trump said, according to participants in the room who spoke to Der Spiegel. "See the millions of cars they sell in the U.S., terrible. We will stop this."

Also don't forget those very heavy fines on VW before... many other examples.

The EU in my eyes/belief just is a danger to US power, the EU was already bigger economical than the US before this 2008 crisis and it's just better that the EU stop doing whatever the US wants and start waking up!

All these problems with Russia I believe is just better for the US, not for Europe or Russia (of course).. more weapons to sell for the US to Europe country's (no wonder they complaining about these 2% from GDP which should be spend on defense) and also just having more control/power for the US when Russia doesn't get close with Europe.. It's just a sad power game which Europe stupidly just followed way to long, so yea time for Europe for finding their own way since the US is really as she said not trustworthy at all!, sadly she's kinda late....but better then never!

a reply to: Pluginn

We have to be fair, if it wasn't for the euro, the crisis would not have taken place in the way it did in Europe.
Also the average US citizen, or should we simply say 'mainstreet' and the people in the UK suffers due to the fraud of wallstreet.
The sad news is that it will happen again because a big junk of car loans are fraudulant and new credit policies reduces risk which obviously means in increase in risk for the US taxpayer.

Trump did not understand the EU, he wanted to have a trade deal with Germany and Merkel had to explain multiple times that within the EU it is not possible to negotiate with one member state.
When he understood it, he said that he will negotiate with the EU which might have opened the door for a renewed or perhaps continuation of TTIP.
'Might', because it is rather difficult to value the word of Trump.

VW deserved the fine, it should have complied with the rules.

There is a history to the ties of Europe and the US related to the help which the US provided after the worldwar and the aliance during the cold war.
One does not simply forget about it or throw it away after a disagreement.
But these ties have indeed been damaged in the last 20 years.
But we should all be aware that this is in the highest cirlce, the average citizen bleeds in the UK/US/EU, everywhere!

a reply to: earthling42

So explain why because of the Euro? European banks bought those AAA rated products from US banks and when Lehman Brothers went down under all those fake US AAA rated products busted (doesn't matter if euro's or guilders/deutsche mark whatever.).. and again since then EU banks went bad as well.
So even EU country's being downgraded later since this US bank crisis which spoiled over to Europe banks... and of course Greece, which made a deal with goldman sachs:
www.thenation.com... which was a big part of that whole problem of Greece.

Yea yea vw deserved that fine, that fine was like $37,500 for each car sold? with a bit worse emissions than reported, seems all fair aye! of course VW is heavly involved with the German bank Deutsche Bank, which got huge fines as well from the US... no wonder?

Europe gave all money tranfers going on in Europe to the US in the name of terrorism, and why all the spying on Germany by US agency's?

Yea of course since WWII as I said the US was our big example, something to look up for, but Russia made a much bigger sacrifice then the US ever did and was a much bigger factor with defeating Germany.. but that was/is all forgotten basically.

But blindingly following the US ever since, and believing the US got the best interest for the EU, that is really foolish.

But yea our dutch ''leaders'' are a prime example bowing down and doing whatever the US wants for sure!

a reply to: Pluginn

The euro is the third stage within the membership or at least it should have been.
First a country joins the EU, than as a member state it has to get their domestic state finance in compliance with the Maasstricht treaty, which is debt below 60 percent of GDP and a budget deficit smaller than 3 percent.
This was simply brushed aside with the implementation of the euro.
In order to implement the euro 2002, they simply decided that the agreed effort to lower the debt would be enough to join the European Monetary Union (EMU).
An agreement between Germany and France who wanted Italy to join as well.
Italy wanted Greece to also be part of the monetary union, if not than Italy would likely not join and France wanted them in.
This has laid the foundation for the eurocrisis, partly as you say due to the deal with goldman sachs, but also due to the fraudulant state finance in Greece in order to hide the real debt and Spain which was building ghost towns which were not sold and stood empty.
Yes, the derivatives scam hit our banks hard, but there was also quite a mismanagement within the eurozone that led to a deep crisis.
The ratings agencies look at the financial state and economy of a country, they provide advise to investors in the form of ratings.

The point is that VW did not comply with the rules which they should have, yes the fine was high, i agree on that but that is to be expected within the US.

The EU has been of good trust, that trust has been damaged on multiple occasions.
Hence i also think it is good that Europe wanders away from the US and desides its own future direction.

Jaap de hoop Scheffer, so happy that he is away from politics!

a reply to: proteus33

Please explain to me how Merkel is responsible for all the refugees existing in the first place?

Oh.. whats that? Shes not?

Oh...
and.. whats that? The U.S. has a bigger hand in that than Germany?

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
a reply to: proteus33

Please explain to me how Merkel is responsible for all the refugees existing in the first place?

Oh.. whats that? Shes not?

Oh...
and.. whats that? The U.S. has a bigger hand in that than Germany?

Let em all in right? Shouldn't be but a couple hundred million more on the way.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

Most of the reports I have read have commented that a large percentage of the refugees are economic not war refugees.

with a bunch flooding in from africa... others as far east as Pakistan, and pretty much every country in between.

So America is guilty of wrecking every country between hither and yon?

oops error

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
I mean.. then there's the fact that Germany has the highest GDP in Europe... But that's non of my business

That statement, although true... is misleading. Their defense spending is almost zero..... because Germany is filled with American bases and since WWII they have not needed to spend on their own protection

"We Europeans truly have to take our fate into our own hands"



best thing she said in the while..