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Trump Wants To Defund Programs That Help Small Farmers Survive

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posted on May, 29 2017 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Willtell
These small farmers who are becoming obsolete in an age of Monsanto.


The cause to me is irrelevant. If your business model is not profitable the government should not be subsidizing you at the expense of others.

Actually it is part of the governments job to help farmers. How do you hope to promote the general welfare of the nation without food?


Promoting the General Welfare does not mean actual modern welfare, it means promoting laws that give every person an equal opportunity to achieve success. How they pursue their own success is their own business so long as it does not harm others.

I'm all for dropping subsidies to ALL companies and letting the chips fall where they may. Lower the taxes to all companies across the board and stop giving special loopholes to the big businesses. Part of the problem with agriculture right now are the arbitrary price controls on food that are skewing the actual market, which come from legal strings that are attached to government subsidy.


With polytunnel agriculture, we can grow crops just about anywhere; tropical fruits, vegetables, anything. Countries have signed international agreements promising not to compete against each other using this technology in order to maintain profitable prices.




posted on May, 29 2017 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: stormcell


Oh boy, plastic greenhouses. Does that come with inexhaustible soil, too?



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicusI just said to get rid of all of them. Who cares what friggin order they are in, scrap all subsidies wholesale tomorrow.


Shall we start with socialized defense? We pour more money into that socialized endeavor than all others.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: jtma508
Shall we start with socialized defense? We pour more money into that socialized endeavor than all others.


Start with all of them. I have no favorites.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Willtell

Lowering taxes across the board and making America competitive is not helping the wealthy. It's helping America. Liberals have been really brainwashed by the Cultural Marxist and their International Socialism aka Globalists ideology



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 11:07 AM
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originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: Willtell

Lowering taxes across the board and making America competitive is not helping the wealthy. It's helping America. Liberals have been really brainwashed by the Cultural Marxist and their International Socialism aka Globalists ideology


Yes keep Jim and Jane Doe believing whats good for them is really helping only the wealthy.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: jtma508

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Somehow I suspect there's been food production long before subsidies. Kind of disingenuous to suggest there'd be 'no food' without subsidies.


Dumbass argument. There is a finite amount of farmable land yet an increasing population. When farmers, as they have been, are faced with bankruptcy or selling their farmland to developers, far too many are forced to do the latter. That pattern results in less and less farm land with a larger and larger demand for food. The whole idea of subsidies is to prevent exactly this from happening. It is intended to keep farms sustainable to prevent our permanently losing farm land. Once it's gone you can't get it back.


Your whole premise is backwards. Shrinking farmland and increased population drives the supply and demand factor into the farmers' favor. More for the land more for the food.

Hence LESS subsidies required. No one wants to be cut off from their freebies. I get that. We have a whole bunch of freebies that need, at least, 'trimming' if not outright cancellation. My view of it is in general. How much should these particular subsidies be cut? I really don't know.

The bio-fuels have added to the already substantial subsidies which have further increased food costs world-wide.

Everyone needs to bite the bullet. That includes the farmers. Can't survive? Then suffer the same fate as any other business would.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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Trump could say that he wants to take the first born of every household and sacrifice them to his lord Satan

And the same member of ATS would still find some way to excuse him.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

The reason this is bad for the small farmer is because they have to ROTATE their crops, especially if they are doing monoculture (1 plant variety, wheat, corn, etc.). The reason that they have to rotate their crops is because many crops deplete the nutrients in the soil (with the exception of things like hops, hemp, and a very few others). When the crops are in rotating season seeds are NOT PLANTED, the crop fields are re-administered with things like bone meal (calcium), potassium, and nitrogen that is absorbable by the plants. Then when the next season fires up, the plants can get what they need to be healthy.

I would have liked to see a clause that protected farmers that are less than 640 acres (SMALL FARMS) from losing the subsidies, for the reason I have noted above in the paragraph. I think that subsidies should be removed from the BIG AGRA PHARMERS! If the farmers that are small do not receive subsidies, they had better let them grow an ANNUAL plant like hemp! on the alternating seasons. Hops come back every year, that's why hemp monoculture on crops that deplete the nutrients would be sustainable. If those smaller farmers losing the subsidies do not get to legally grow hemp or some crop that replenishes the soil, then this change will hurt them greatly.

I live in Montana. I have farmers that are still active on both sides of my family. Be aware Mr. Trump that the smaller farmers in MANY of the Redder states this election are paying close attention! Montana generally was more of a True Democrat state (always). Not the leftist type, but the type that likes land rights and FREEDOM! If you want those 8 years, you should cater to some of these ideas.
edit on 5/29/2017 by InFriNiTee because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Trump could say that he wants to take the first born of every household and sacrifice them to his lord Satan

And the same member of ATS would still find some way to excuse him.



Its hard for you's that hoped and prayed to the god of death and destruction, that Clinton would get elected and run the country into the ground.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Willtell

I'm not informed enough about these particular programs to specifically address these issues, but I couldn't help think of another article I read this morning: Venezuela’s paradox: People are hungry, but farmers can’t feed them

Not because there aren't farmers willing to farm, and not because there isn't land to farm, but because of misguided and/or ill-intentioned government interference.

The particulars of our situations are not the same, but our need for food sure is! Big Ag is not serving us well. Small local farmers -- just like all small local businesses -- are the backbones of any community. We need to ensure they don't just survive, but thrive, for everyone's benefit.

It's just not wise to bite the hand that feeds you.


I couldn't agree more. Fact most likely is though that Corporate AG gets far more subsidies by acreage than the small farmers. Those small farms need time to transition to new rule without going bust, big Agra not so much. Don't we still buy excess grain and dairy for use with UDSA nutrition programs as well as keeping a national reserve?



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 01:54 PM
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originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Trump could say that he wants to take the first born of every household and sacrifice them to his lord Satan

And the same member of ATS would still find some way to excuse him.



Its hard for you's that hoped and prayed to the god of death and destruction, that Clinton would get elected and run the country into the ground.


can i not be anti-trump and anti-clinton or can the Trumpstars not cope with complex political view points out with the usual republican vs democrat.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 01:56 PM
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The problem with you folks who believe capitalism is sacrosanct and on its own will cure all economic problems is that that idea has proven to be fantasy…

If you let the free market do things there would be a massive depression pretty fast---as past episodes indicate.

The past head of the Fed Alan Greenspan tried that method and it turned out so bad we had the 2007-8 depression.

He actually went before congress and apologized for his “LET THE FREE MARKET TAKE CARE OF ECONOMY”

It just doesn’t work, human nature-- the nature of the beast will take over and we’ll all end up starving save the one percent.





edit on 29-5-2017 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-5-2017 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: Willtell


The same can be said for the socialists that really need a fairly decent economy to sponge from.

But yes capital solutions like 401k, pensions ect are much more of an uncertain thing than they were for the last generation. For the working man middle class anyway.

And really there isnt a free market running the insurance "industry". They are cheep, protected by the court, use crap language in policy so as not to have to pay in circumstances that the insured is under the impression will be covered.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Trump could say that he wants to take the first born of every household and sacrifice them to his lord Satan

And the same member of ATS would still find some way to excuse him.



Its hard for you's that hoped and prayed to the god of death and destruction, that Clinton would get elected and run the country into the ground.


can i not be anti-trump and anti-clinton or can the Trumpstars not cope with complex political view points out with the usual republican vs democrat.



Yea but you gotta say you don't like both because thats its own special cridder.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals


Fact most likely is though that Corporate AG gets far more subsidies by acreage than the small farmers. Those small farms need time to transition to new rule without going bust, big Agra not so much.


That's how I understand it. And that, in fact, that disparity has been steadily increasing. Along with increasing water and land use regulations, etc. All of which puts the small farmer at a greater disadvantage. It all reeks of crony capitalism and regulatory capture to me.


Don't we still buy excess grain and dairy for use with UDSA nutrition programs as well as keeping a national reserve?


Yes and no... certainly not like we used to. I looked up a couple articles so that I didn't give misremembered information. This is from January 2016: U.S. food supply more vulnerable than ever after government sold off emergency grain reserves

By 2008, the reserve was completely depleted, after the USDA “decided to convert all of what was left into its dollar equivalent. And so the grain that once stabilized prices for farmers, bakers and American consumers ended up as a number on a spreadsheet in the Department of Agriculture.”

That mentality that "knows the price of everything and value of nothing."

I'm not sure when this was first published, but it has good history and information: Surplus U.S. food supplies dry up

I'd appreciate seeing more efforts to encourage community gardens, and families growing their own gardens, and more local farmer's markets and pop-up produce stands.... it concerns me that so much government effort seems to be geared towards the opposite.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: InFriNiTee

The large farms use subsidies to put smaller farms out of business. Then there is the insane practice of paying them not to plant. Subsidies just help group's like Monsato to crush the little guy
edit on 5/29/17 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

That's why I want to see the Big Pharma Monsanto Multinational types become INELIGIBLE for subsides, but the small farmer will still have a subsidy program.

I agree with you, it is broken and a scam that is allowing monopolies in the Multinational corporations that are overbloated and poisoning us through things like 2-4D (half agent-orange), Roundup (dioxin based also), and others. Just read the side of the cardboard box at your wholesale store (Costco, Sams, etc.). Almost everything is sprayed with some form of chemical or another (if it is not "organic").

Another thing is the "organic" thing is a total scam. Try this with the so-called "organic" lettuce from Sams (walmart)! Put it in the fridge for a MONTH. It will still look like the day you bought it at the store (almost). You know how they do that? By irradiation. They beam radioactive rays onto the harvested plants to give them a longer "shelf life". I'm sure that irradiation kills any of the beneficial nutrients in food, and who knows what else it may do to people. I don't know if that's been studied yet. It does happen on a widespread basis now.

-side note: I don't recommend shopping at Walmart, Sams, or any of those mega-mart shopping places as much as you can. Try to attend your local Farmer's Market and other places like that. At least there you know the food is not irradiated.
edit on 5/29/2017 by InFriNiTee because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: Irishhaf

It is not so much to prevent another dust bowl as it is to protect over production and having prices fall to a level that no one would want to farm. Too much corn makes the price go down, too much soy beans and the global price is affected so this is why they sometimes pay to have a field fallow. Seems to me that it would e cutting their own throat by over producing so instead of subsidies they should let them bleed then maybe they would pay more attention to what they are doing. The bottom line is that subsidies are an outdated tool that need to go away



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: DJMSN

I am more familiar with farming in Germany than the states and one of the things that struck me as odd, is the rotating of the crops, I imagine a piece of the reason is just that, so you do not flood the market with a particular crop.

Pattern I have noticed is Corn, followed by some sort of tuber, followed by winter wheat, followed by Rape oil plants... every couple months they let it sit for a couple weeks, spread slurry on it, let it sit a couple days, till it, more slurry rinse and repeat then plant some more.

But thats just what I have seen and what little I have managed to get out of the field hands/farmers.... their English is not the best, and my German sucks. ( I can barely speak bad American)
edit on 29-5-2017 by Irishhaf because: inserted a few things



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