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Jeremy Corbyn: I am not being unpatriotic questioning UK foreign wars after Manchester attack

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posted on May, 28 2017 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: RisenMessiah

Well the other political party leaders condemned the savages quite quickly, Corbyn just blamed UK foreign policy to score political points.
It's backfired on him though, and hopefully on June the 8th he'll remain as leader of the opposition in Parliament.




posted on May, 28 2017 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Yes I read your post.

I think we (UK) have a place anywhere there is wickedness to be quashed.

I was hopeful of Corbyn when he took office, but as his suits have darkened, his stance has become more establishment. His speech was a vote catcher I'm afraid.

Of course you are right, our bombing didn't create ISIS, by definition ISIS had to be there first to be bombed.

Our bombing probably did give the suicide bombers a back story to support their own twisted ego's. But it is no more than that, and I suggest there are far deeper emotional problems leading to suicide bombers ultimately pressing the trigger.

Would he have attacked if we hadn't bombed? Yes, if attacking us would have created as many column inches of press coverage, without creating 'negative collateral' for ISIS. UK having bombed ISIS, however, it made the "back story' that much easier to write.

Corbyns' sin in my eyes, was to imply we should step back from 'quashing wickedness' for fear of terrorism. That is wrong, but we should prepare to counter the consequences.

This was my point.



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: Doxanoxa

Thanks for the interesting reply and well considered points




Our bombing probably did give the suicide bombers a back story to support their own twisted ego's. But it is no more than that, and I suggest there are far deeper emotional problems leading to suicide bombers ultimately pressing the trigger.


I agree completely, these folk must be somewhat unhinged to be indoctrinated into blowing themselves and others up in the first place. The Imams in this warped form of Islam know this full well, and in classic cult style prey on these emotionally weak people.

This is why I think Corbyn is a snake for focusing solely on UK foreign policy, but crickets when it comes to condemning the ideology which is being supported by some Imams and mosques in the UK.
When the ideology is willing to kill anyone who doesn't follow its teachings then UK foreign policy becomes a secondary issue. If the UK withdrew all interest in the middle East and instead reverted to massive humanitarian aid, these savages would still wish to kill us.

If Corbyn had condemned both UK policy and the twisted people in Britain and around the world who follow the ideology I would have not created this thread. He didn't though, and attempted a cheap political shot on the back of the murders in Manchester.

The same Corbyn who condemned Britain defending the Falklands, and instead advocated for ceding sovereignty to Argentina. Corbyn is a weak snivelling snake and I look forward to laughing when he and the SNP fail to get their coalition government in a couple of weeks.
edit on 28.5.2017 by grainofsand because: Typo



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 11:02 AM
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Sturgeon is at it as well now:
UK Independent


The First Minister insisted there was nobody to blame other than the terrorist, and neither she nor Mr Corbyn was trying to justify the attack.

Urm, yes there are plenty of people to blame Nicola, the scumbags in some UK mosques who are indoctrinating the terrorists.
The support network of traitor Brits who are enabling the killers in the name of their warped form of Islam.

But no, nothing to see here, lets just blame UK foreign policy and the individual terrorists.
I blame the vile ideology and those who support it in problem mosques in the UK.
Let's not mention that though. SMFH.



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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Like many, I've only read what the newspapers said about Corbyn's speech. So I've now read the original transcript to see what Corbyn actually said.

He clearly condemns the attack and the person responsible. He stands defiant alongside the people of Manchester, speaks of ordinary people coming together, solidarity etc. Is very supportive of the police, ambulance crews, other first responders etc. States that terrorists and their acts of depravity will never prevail. And that an incoming Labour government will reverse cuts made to the emergency services, end austerity in the public services, reverse the cuts made to police numbers made by the Conservative government.

He then moves on to foreign affairs. He says this :-


We will also change what we do abroad. Many experts, including professionals in our intelligence and security services have pointed to the connections between wars our government has supported or fought in other countries, such as Libya, and terrorism here at home.

That assessment in no way reduces the guilt of those who attack our children. Those terrorists will forever be reviled and implacably held to account for their actions.


But then he goes on to say this.


But an informed understanding of the causes of terrorism is an essential part of an effective response that will protect the security of our people, that fights rather than fuels terrorism.

Protecting this country requires us to be both strong against terrorism and strong against the causes of terrorism. The blame is with the terrorists, but if we are to protect our people we must be honest about what threatens our security.

Those causes certainly cannot be reduced to foreign policy decisions alone. Over the past fifteen years or so, a sub-culture of often suicidal violence has developed amongst a tiny minority of, mainly young, men, falsely drawing authority from Islamic beliefs and often nurtured in a prison system in urgent need of resources and reform. And no rationale based on the actions of any government can remotely excuse, or even adequately explain, outrages like this week’s massacre. But we must be brave enough to admit the war on terror is simply not working. We need a smarter way to reduce the threat from countries that nurture terrorists and generate terrorism.


OP, if you read his speech (and returning to your original post), Corbyn didn't make foreign policy the main focus of his speech. He did make mention of the perverted form of Islam these terrorists follow. He condemned the terrorist clearly & plainly, he didn't excuse their actions to any extent whatever.

I think he actually makes a good point about these young men and the almost gang like sub culture which has sprung up amongst a tiny minority of the young men in these communities, more often than not these guys are born & bred in Britain.

What he didn't do, and neither has any other mainstream politician as far as I can see, he didn't tell us how his incoming government would tackle that particular problem. To that extent I guess he bottled it. Maybe it wasn't appropriate in that particular speech, hell the guy is condemned for what he says, what he doesn't say. And then others condemn him simply based on what some wine soaked journo in the newspaper says he said. I guess he can't win.

Here's the transcript of Corbyn's whole speech, from the Spectator no less, no friend of Labour.

blogs.spectator.co.uk...#



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
What he didn't do, and neither has any other mainstream politician as far as I can see, he didn't tell us how his incoming government would tackle that particular problem. To that extent I guess he bottled it. Maybe it wasn't appropriate in that particular speech, hell the guy is condemned for what he says, what he doesn't say. And then others condemn him simply based on what some wine soaked journo in the newspaper says he said. I guess he can't win.

Yep, no condemnation of these young Muslim men, no condemnation of the British Islamic leaders who support the vile ideology and enable them to kill.
He almost made out they were poor victims of the prison system, acting alone due to their wretched situation. That's certainly how I interpreted it.

There is a control network in Britain acting in and outside of mosques, indoctrinating Muslim men into killing fellow Brits.
That is what he has never had the balls to say, and that is the problem which needs tackling at home, regardless of UK foreign policy.



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
Yep, no condemnation of these young Muslim men, no condemnation of the British Islamic leaders who support the vile ideology and enable them to kill.
He almost made out they were poor victims of the prison system, acting alone due to their wretched situation. That's certainly how I interpreted it.

There is a control network in Britain acting in and outside of mosques, indoctrinating Muslim men into killing fellow Brits.
That is what he has never had the balls to say, and that is the problem which needs tackling at home, regardless of UK foreign policy.


He did condemn the ones who commit these outrages. I've no personal connection with the guy but haven't the slightest doubt he looks at some of these radical preachers in the same terms as the rest of us. I think you've interpreted his comments about the prison system wrongly ... prison exists to punish and rehabilitate. There's not much rehabilitation going on these days, no matter what the offence, prisoners often return to their communities to commit more crime, recidivism, revolving door from prison to the benefits office then back to prison again after a few weeks or months. That said, that part about reform of the prison service was ill placed and shouldn't have been said in this speech.

A control network ? Quite probably. That's what the authorities need to tackle head on. But they've needed to do that for years. That's what the guy's saying ... we're locked into failure, it's one attack after another and nothing ever gets done. Corbyn's right, we do need a better way of dealing with this stuff. Smart.

We're locked into this awful choreographed, rehearsed horror. The dreadful attack itself. The rolling news tickers, the condemnations, we all stand together, hashtags for this city or that, buildings illuminated, statements made, royal visits to third world like hospitals, flags lowered, the minutes silence, the black armbands, news cameras there in place right on cue to capture every single piece of this media orgasm.

Me ? I'm coming to the conclusion that the only way to tackle this is re-education. To encourage these guys into counselling (for that's what it is for so many of them), to aggressively challenge their belief systems and get them to abandon the terrorist violence. But to do that we need the mosques on board, actively participating (the terrorist sympathisers might take it better from their own). That's why I think politicians need to tread carefully when it comes to condemning the mosques, their leaders. We need them all on board to put an end to this s**t once and for all.

That'd be smart. I hope that's the way Corbyn's thinking.



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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Using a terrorist attack on Children to score political points over Corbyn is a new low for you. What Corbyn said is what most intelligent people have been saying for thousands of years. Violence begets Violence.

God forbid a politician actually has the balls to stand up and tell the truth. You should be more worried that Tory scum has cut thousands of Police from protecting the public and slashed £22 billion from the very Hospitals that have to treat the victims of Terrorism.



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: TheShippingForecast
Me ? I'm coming to the conclusion that the only way to tackle this is re-education. To encourage these guys into counselling (for that's what it is for so many of them), to aggressively challenge their belief systems and get them to abandon the terrorist violence. But to do that we need the mosques on board, actively participating (the terrorist sympathisers might take it better from their own). That's why I think politicians need to tread carefully when it comes to condemning the mosques, their leaders. We need them all on board to put an end to this s**t once and for all.

That'd be smart. I hope that's the way Corbyn's thinking.


I agree, that would be smart, I'd be shocked if Corbyn ever advocated something like that though.
He has never even admitted that there is a problem in some mosques with a vile ideology indoctrinating Muslim men.
He always sidesteps any questions regarding that because he's too chicken # to risk offending anyone.
The problem is real, albeit a tiny percentage of Muslims in Britain, and he is too weasly to admit it publicly.
The problem is a vile interpretation of Islam, and it is a problem of the UK Islamic community, it needs calling out for what it is instead of lamely making political points regarding UK foreign policy.

I absolutely agree with your ideas above, perhaps stand as leader of the Labour party and you'd get my vote.



posted on May, 28 2017 @ 12:25 PM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Using a terrorist attack on Children to score political points over Corbyn is a new low for you. What Corbyn said is what most intelligent people have been saying for thousands of years. Violence begets Violence.

Lol, don't be ridiculous, Corbyn made the speech, his first since the children were killed, and he made a cheap political point about UK foreign policy which I am criticising. #ing drama queen much?
Violence begets violence of course, now apologise for Islamic radicals who kill gay people or those who do not share their faith. # all to do with UK foreign policy, just barbarous savages.


God forbid a politician actually has the balls to stand up and tell the truth. You should be more worried that Tory scum has cut thousands of Police from protecting the public and slashed £22 billion from the very Hospitals that have to treat the victims of Terrorism.

Start a thread about that if you like, I may contribute, but that is not the topic here.

*Edit*
What's that I can hear Solo, the sounds of crickets maybe?
Come on, find an excuse in UK foreign policy for Islamic radicals killing gay people and those who do not share their faith.
Can you blame that on the Tories as well?
...and lol at your queen of the Scots who wants a coalition government with Corbyn, speaking on TV today, remind me to piss myself laughing on the 8th of June when the SNP remain a minor party whinging in parliament.
edit on 28.5.2017 by grainofsand because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 02:32 AM
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Blame Britain first! From a lead candidate! Love it!

Maybe the Manchester bombing has more to do with politicians allowing immigration from states that admitted to sponsoring the Lockerby plane bombing.

And Libya is one state that Trump proposed banning immigration from.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 02:58 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

So what is your point exactly?
Are you saying the French resistance in WWII were pretty much the same as ISIS?
Really?

Again, FFS, SMFH.


Damn you are focused properly and the derailer types are dancing on pinheads trying to poke holes in a very simple, well thought out statement and question.

Please, let me rephrase this good question.

DO evil people (we can remove the religous word) kill gays and Yazidi's because Britain bombed people who kill innocents for fun?

Do modern Western Gov's throw gays off of buildings for being gay?

Do modern Western Gov's sell little girls for sex slaves in the year 2016 as policy (for those who are cynical towards the news about the pizzagate issue in America please don't go there in this thread)?

Do modern Western Govs put people in cages and drown them, post it on youtube and say they are infidels, and as such deserved it?

Do modern Western Govs tie people to poles and burn them like the Salem Witch Trials and Joan of Arc received?

Those ISSUES and a few more along that line need addressing by the Corbyn's of the Western Govs and not did the west fight a war in their homelands. IMO.

edit on 29-5-2017 by Justoneman because: ETA



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 03:40 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand



So, Corbyn, who could potentially become the next Prime Minister of the UK, chooses to focus on UK government foreign policy influencing terrorists...


As he should! And here is the reason why: USA, UK, FR, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Turkey, Jordan, and Israel have been funding, arming, training and providing tactical support for Daesh/ISIS/Al-Qaeda in the Middle East - primarily in Syria.



I say he is being dishonest by failing to recognise that there is a problem with some Imams and Mosques in the UK, instead focusing on UK foreign policy.


I agree with you that any person with influence trying to radicalize members of the public should be dealt with. Geopolitics, particularly in the middle east, if very complex, which causes some ignorant people to buy into the lies and become radicalized. It also causes some people in the west to believe the same lies and form distorted ideas about what is going on there. For instance:

ISIS/Al-Qaeda is an entity created by the West and the Gulf States in order to fight a proxy war on their behalf along with providing an illusion of a war on terror that western media perpetuates via propaganda. The same s# is happening concerning the west trying to paint N.Korea as some evil threat...



Of course, the overwhelming majority of British Muslims are peaceful law abiding citizens, but the problem is one of the Islamic community.


The problem is grown adults on both sides too ignorant to understand geopolitics...


Mr Corbyn pointed to “the connections between wars our government has supported or fought in other countries and terrorism here at home” in a speech in central London.


"Terrorism is like a scorpion [you keep in your pocket]; it can unexpectedly sting you at any time" - Bashar Al-Assad



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 05:56 AM
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originally posted by: Miracula2
Maybe the Manchester bombing has more to do with politicians allowing immigration from states that admitted to sponsoring the Lockerby plane bombing.

Many of our home grown terrorists are second or third generation immigrants so their ancestry is pretty much irrelevant.
It is the vile ideology they follow which is the problem, the traitor Imams, and underground support network working in some mosques around the UK.
But no, nothing to see here, move along, lets just blame UK foreign policy.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: Justoneman

Excellently put

UK/US foreign policy has absolutely nothing to do with vile savages who kill people for being gay or following a different religion.
They are vile savages because they have been indoctrinated into a vile and savage ideology.
The ideology is to blame, and the support network in some mosques around the UK facillitating them.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 06:06 AM
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originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: grainofsand

I agree with you that any person with influence trying to radicalize members of the public should be dealt with. Geopolitics, particularly in the middle east, if very complex, which causes some ignorant people to buy into the lies and become radicalized. It also causes some people in the west to believe the same lies and form distorted ideas about what is going on there. For instance:

ISIS/Al-Qaeda is an entity created by the West and the Gulf States in order to fight a proxy war on their behalf along with providing an illusion of a war on terror that western media perpetuates via propaganda.


I agree completely that ISIS/Daesh is a contrived organisation funded by nation states. It is a disgrace of course, and if Corbyn was making reference to that I would have agreed. He wasn't though, he was making the classic limp argument that UK foreign policy has influenced people to become terrorists as revenge for the evil British.

UK foreign policy did not create a mindset where killing gay people is the way forward, or people who believe in the 'wrong' flavour of Islam.
The ideology of these vile people is the problem, UK foreign policy is a contributing factor of course, but without that murderous barbaric ideology driving these savages there would be no killings of gays and non believers.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 06:13 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: grainofsand

Corbyn is right , you can't light a match then complain when it burns you , Daesh are a direct result of our actions in Iraq just the PC brigade and outraged press pretend it ant so.

Fair play to him.


I don't understand this logic.
Isis are not fighting for the freedom of their people or justice for their people. As a matter of fact, isis killing and oppressing their own. Women and gays are particularly oppressed religiously and are kept as sex slaves [women] or thrown from high places [gays].
isis came out when we killed Ghadaffi, because nobody knew how crazy those people actually were. They saw an opportunity to spread their warped religious ideals and went ahead.

Even if nobody would have ever set foot onto their soil, they would have done the exact same thing. Their aim isn't to teach us a lesson, it is to convert the west to islam at any cost.

All this: "we deserve it because blablabla..." is complete s4ite. They do it to spread fear because they enjoy it and really believe in sharia law and other ancient interpretations of the koran.

If we all got out of the ME, left them to it, apologised, gave millions as compensation, they would still blow us up because we are easy pickings and haven't been islamified yet. Don't be so naive people, these are two different things we are talking about.
isis just uses some as an excuse and you fall for it. The problem is a far bigger one: the propagation of islam through violence.

If you think that can't be, then please read up on history, it's their modus operandi when they don't lie to you whilst stabbing you in the back. They are too stupid and greedy to have a more 'noble' cause. Only westeners could com up with a self punishing corrolation. Why do you hate your culture and countrymen/women so much?



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 06:37 AM
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originally posted by: Hecate666

If you think that can't be, then please read up on history, it's their modus operandi when they don't lie to you whilst stabbing you in the back. They are too stupid and greedy to have a more 'noble' cause. Only westeners could come up with a self punishing corrolation. Why do you hate your culture and countrymen/women so much?


Ah, it is not politically correct to point out the savagery of this vile ideology, that they would kill us anyway regardless of UK foreign policy.
That is why snivelling Corbyn chose to focus on UK actions instead of the real problem which is barbarous killers who are being supported by some vile Imams and mosques in the UK.



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 08:17 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Hecate666

If you think that can't be, then please read up on history, it's their modus operandi when they don't lie to you whilst stabbing you in the back. They are too stupid and greedy to have a more 'noble' cause. Only westeners could come up with a self punishing corrolation. Why do you hate your culture and countrymen/women so much?


Ah, it is not politically correct to point out the savagery of this vile ideology, that they would kill us anyway regardless of UK foreign policy.
That is why snivelling Corbyn chose to focus on UK actions instead of the real problem which is barbarous killers who are being supported by some vile Imams and mosques in the UK.


It is not PC here in America either to point out the vile believers of hate or that out there are ILLEGAL aliens. I say that and I LOVE the legal immigrants I have met from South America, many live near my parents. They WANT to live free and contribute to society in a positive way. But all that PC BS has done is to push people to make a correction by voting in candidate Trump. Like, love, dislike or despise him, he is the answer to Politically Correct and so far I have changed from not liking him to beginning to think he is going to be a good candidate to help us "drain the swamp" of the criminal politico's. I won't hold my breath waiting on it but I can sure hope.

I read your posts and YOU focused me to that early morning post I typed out to defend your idea. I couldn't sleep when I went to bed thinking about it and am up again. My children and future grandchildren are the future targets of these vile subhuman cockroaches, as Mark Levin calls them.

Because we are so friendly where I live lots of people move here from all over the planet, I have made friends with people from deep African nations like Kenya, the Congo, Nigeria and Ethiopia. Other's from places like, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait and Egypt who most all came to the US to ESCAPE these ISIS types before we called them ISIS. They are mostly Atheist because of the way religious leaders have people treating others. The Koran claims Jesus was a prophet of God, not the son, but they DO NOT practice love your neighbor at all. Not that we Christians are perfect but we don't throw gays off of buildings etc.. The Egyptians here are Coptic's who have settled in my area just to live a life of freedom to believe in Jesus and I absolutely would take a bullet for them.


edit on 29-5-2017 by Justoneman because: ETA



posted on May, 29 2017 @ 08:30 AM
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a reply to: Justoneman

Agreed, Trump at least calls it for what it is, clumsily sometimes, but bluntly and without being a sniveling weasly worded # like Jeremy Corybyn is here in the UK.
The ideology is vile, the Imams and mosques supporting the ideology are equally vile, and as you implied, they'll kill us just for having a different faith, regardless of UK/US foreign policy.

Strange how the Yazidiz and Assyrian Christians of Iraq are not murdering Western people. It was their country the UK/US bombed as well but they don't call for our death or throw gay people off buildings.
It is the vile ideology followed by savages that is to blame, and Corbyn was too chicken # to call out the elephant in the room.




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