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Question for 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists

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posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 02:29 AM
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originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: turbonium1
The only problem is that, as said above, there WERE no core columns that failed from fire/impact damage, and NIST knows that. So what they do is assume that there WERE such failed core columns, but they weren't found in the debris! And THAT was how they were able to create models of collapse by fire and impact damage.

Imaginary core columns all failed at once, and initiated the entire collapse.


You mean like this couple of examples?


The column sections themselves proved to be very strong, their connections not so much. If it had been possible to manufacture each of the core columns as a single piece they'd still be standing.


Are you serious?

NIST's report on the collapse included an examination of the steel core columns. They specifically collected pieces that have damage or deformities. Among all their core samples, they never found any problems with core column connections. The columns were already in pieces after the collapse, yet they never indicated a failure of connectors.

So prove your claim, if you can.




posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 02:45 AM
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originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: turbonium1



Specifically designed to withstand a large plane, and claimed by the on-site construction manager that it could withstand multiple plane impacts, as he explains below. The quote links to the video, on the source page...


When designing WTC did calculations on what would happen if hit by large aircraft, remembering the B25 impact
into the Empire State Building (also year later in 1946 an Army aircraft struck building at 40 Wall Street killing
occupants)

en.wikipedia.org...

Because of these incidents had to consider what would happen if aircraft struck the building.

Showed that to topple WTC tower would require lateral force of 17 million Foot-pounds, aircraft impact would generate
13 million foot-pounds.

Ergo building would not fall down from aircraft impact

Problem was at that time could not model fire effects from ruptured fuel tanks.

It was the fire started by jet fuel which killed the WTC towers


These were the fires that weakened multiple imaginary core columns within each tower, at the same time, to the point of collapse, and magically removed all the intact structural resistance below it, right?



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 03:33 AM
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a reply to: turbonium1

Those 2 column sections are a good example because there's no evidence of cutting, fire damage, explosives etc and the massive sections are unbent yet they're broken apart nonetheless after being involved in the collapse of 100s of thousands of tonnes of heavy material all around them which is a testament to their strength.

What I'm getting at is there's a very good clue as to why they broke apart with no evident deformation in that pic

Can you see it?



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: turbonium1

One, did the construction manager design the towers.

Two, the towers did withstand the jet impacts. So your argument is a moot point.

Three, the cooling and contacting of drooping floor trusses in a building with improper fire proofing, a design that minimized concrete usage, and long floor spans with no supports along their lengths caused the outer vertical columns to buckle and initiate the collapse. As outlined and seen in the provided video here: www.metabunk.org...

Four: Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections During Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
www.nist.gov...



Above the aircraft impact floors, the failure modes were randomly distributed. However, over 90 percent of floor truss connections at or below the impact floors of both buildings were either bent downwards or completely sheared from the exterior wall suggesting progressive overloading of the floors below the impact zone following collapse initiation of the towers. Depending upon joint geometry, detachment of the main truss seats occurred either by fracture in the heat affected zone of the base material, where the standoff plate detached from the spandrel, or through the weld metal, where the seat angle detached from the standoff plate. Failure in both cases was the result of a shear mechanism due to an overload condition. Exposure to fires prior to the collapse was not found to have an effect on the failure mode of the floor truss connections.


Five, what happen to your dust argument?
edit on 30-7-2017 by neutronflux because: Fixed this and that



posted on Jul, 30 2017 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: turbonium1

Your argument is based on misconceptions on WTC dust, while.......

The cause of isolated vertical column buckling has been provided.

A video showing the buckling was isolated to only one or two floors was linked to.

NIST did analysis on the floor connections, the failure mode was from being overloaded.

Metallurgical analysis never showed any evidence of thermite or conventional explosives damage.

The hand searching of WTC rubble for human remains, evidence, and personal effects recovered no demolitions shrapnel, blasting cap fragments, bomb fragments, and no detonation devices. The hand searching of ruble recovered 19,000 human remains. 6,000 which could fit in test tubes.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: turbonium1

Those 2 column sections are a good example because there's no evidence of cutting, fire damage, explosives etc and the massive sections are unbent yet they're broken apart nonetheless after being involved in the collapse of 100s of thousands of tonnes of heavy material all around them which is a testament to their strength.

What I'm getting at is there's a very good clue as to why they broke apart with no evident deformation in that pic

Can you see it?


Yes, they were cut that way, afterwards!

You think steel columns will split in perfect 45 degree sections?

Is that what you're saying here?



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 11:17 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Your argument is based on misconceptions on WTC dust, while.......

The cause of isolated vertical column buckling has been provided.

A video showing the buckling was isolated to only one or two floors was linked to.

NIST did analysis on the floor connections, the failure mode was from being overloaded.

Metallurgical analysis never showed any evidence of thermite or conventional explosives damage.

The hand searching of WTC rubble for human remains, evidence, and personal effects recovered no demolitions shrapnel, blasting cap fragments, bomb fragments, and no detonation devices. The hand searching of ruble recovered 19,000 human remains. 6,000 which could fit in test tubes.



They already 'knew' what caused the collapses, before the actual investigation, and so they didn't even think of looking for anything else! What do you expect them to find?

They already knew Oswald was a lone nut killer, too!!

Nobody can know the facts BEFORE an investigation, look to support only that, and ignore anything not supporting that, for their pre-determined conclusion!

In reality, anyway. True science means all evidence is taken into account. A pre-determined cause(s), a pre-determined person(s), with no cause or person involved, is a complete joke.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: turbonium1

No 45 degree sections to be seen there
Those pieces of column have not been cut & what you see is the way they were manufactured with square ends.
The point of interest is what's left of the welds that joined them together, welded on 2 sides only plus barely penetrating 1/3 of the wall thickness.

If we're looking for a weakness in the construction there it is.
edit on 2/8/2017 by Pilgrum because: typo



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 11:49 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Your argument is based on misconceptions on WTC dust, while.......

The cause of isolated vertical column buckling has been provided.

A video showing the buckling was isolated to only one or two floors was linked to.

NIST did analysis on the floor connections, the failure mode was from being overloaded.

Metallurgical analysis never showed any evidence of thermite or conventional explosives damage.

The hand searching of WTC rubble for human remains, evidence, and personal effects recovered no demolitions shrapnel, blasting cap fragments, bomb fragments, and no detonation devices. The hand searching of ruble recovered 19,000 human remains. 6,000 which could fit in test tubes.



Misconceptions of dust blanketing streets?

When dust has never blanketed streets before, in any building collapse, how is it 'normal'??

'Normal' is the official story, nothing else!!

Sure.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:12 AM
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originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: turbonium1

No 45 degree sections to be seen there
Those pieces of column have not been cut & what you see is the way they were manufactured with square ends.
The point of interest is what's left of the welds that joined them together, welded on 2 sides only plus barely penetrating 1/3 of the wall thickness.

If we're looking for a weakness in the construction there it is.


But if we're looking for any proof of your theory, there is none!

There would be examples of this, real world, before? No.

Impossible to replicate, no examples exist, so what?



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:36 AM
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It's the 'sheared at welding joints' theory!

The welded joints came apart everywhere, instantly, like balsa wood, without resistance!!

Science cannot explain it, or replicate it, or show an example of it...


Saying it is so, that's good enough, right?



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 03:47 AM
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originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: turbonium1

Your argument is based on misconceptions on WTC dust, while.......

The cause of isolated vertical column buckling has been provided.

A video showing the buckling was isolated to only one or two floors was linked to.

NIST did analysis on the floor connections, the failure mode was from being overloaded.

Metallurgical analysis never showed any evidence of thermite or conventional explosives damage.

The hand searching of WTC rubble for human remains, evidence, and personal effects recovered no demolitions shrapnel, blasting cap fragments, bomb fragments, and no detonation devices. The hand searching of ruble recovered 19,000 human remains. 6,000 which could fit in test tubes.



Misconceptions of dust blanketing streets?

When dust has never blanketed streets before, in any building collapse, how is it 'normal'??

'Normal' is the official story, nothing else!!

Sure.


Why wouldn't there be dust from over 1,000,000 tons of buildings collapsing?



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 03:50 AM
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originally posted by: turbonium1
It's the 'sheared at welding joints' theory!

The welded joints came apart everywhere, instantly, like balsa wood, without resistance!!

Science cannot explain it, or replicate it, or show an example of it...


Saying it is so, that's good enough, right?


False narrative, many of the floor connections were bolted together. And static load vs being overloaded by dynamic load exceeding the load limits of by several factors will cause floor connections to shear and break.

The towers were full of drywall, why wouldn't there be dust?



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: turbonium1

Building falling over after earthquake creates dust cloud. No explosives used. Now imagine two buildings about 8 to 10s larger falling.

Building collapses after earthquake
m.youtube.com...

Buildings collapse during Nepal earthquake
www.cnn.com...

Buildings fall and create dust.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: turbonium1

Bodies pulverised by New Zealand earthquake 'may never be found' as dust clouds choke Christchurch
www.dailymail.co.uk...



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 06:35 AM
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a reply to: turbonium1




When dust has never blanketed streets before, in any building collapse, how is it 'normal'??

Clueless ! Totally clueless.
Everyday buildings are demolished by wrecking balls.
In most cases they have a fire hose spraying water to keep the dust down.

Your posting suggests you do not get out in the world.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: turbonium1




When dust has never blanketed streets before, in any building collapse, how is it 'normal'??

Clueless ! Totally clueless.
Everyday buildings are demolished by wrecking balls.
In most cases they have a fire hose spraying water to keep the dust down.

Your posting suggests you do not get out in the world.


Or trying to spin reality to push falsehoods....,



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: turbonium1
It's the 'sheared at welding joints' theory!

The welded joints came apart everywhere, instantly, like balsa wood, without resistance!!

Science cannot explain it, or replicate it, or show an example of it...


Saying it is so, that's good enough, right?


Oh there was resistance, just not as much as there should have been and remember these were vertical elements which only failed after the flimsy floors were ripped out leaving them unbraced by the outer walls. Outer walls suffered the same fate without the floors to support them.

Sounds more rational than the 'cut by invisible silent undetectable explosives' theory to me but it's lacking in the sensationalism. The way the buildings came down was determined by the way they were constructed decades earlier.
edit on 3/8/2017 by Pilgrum because: grammar



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: Schmoe1223

And how do we know that they really did take credit for it?? Could our government have used a look alike and had them take credit as another group. We rely on our news and social media and we should know by now anything can be faked. What better way to make us think we were under attack then my doing this and then blaming another group.



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 03:35 PM
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originally posted by: turbonium1
It's the 'sheared at welding joints' theory!

The welded joints came apart everywhere, instantly, like balsa wood, without resistance!!

Science cannot explain it, or replicate it, or show an example of it...


Saying it is so, that's good enough, right?


Some structural steel pieces ended up impaled in the American Express building, an incredible picture, quickly taken out of the official record.



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