What’s the Masonic view on Demons…?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
They also involve plenty of non-theological/mythological topics.

Yeah, but’s that not what I’m focusing on…

Also, what I brought up is just but one example…

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
I personally think that anyone who believes in demons is delusional.

You do realize I admitted on page one of this thread, that I believe demons exist…in a round about manner…based on past personal experience….


- JC

originally posted by: Sauron
a reply to: Willtell

there not the same, the one on the left is a Master Masons apron, the man next to him on the right is wearing a worshipful Master apron,

Master Mason Apron

Worshipful Master, or Past Master Apron

 

ETA
What’s the Masonic view on Demons?

There is none, no Masonic view. This belief would be entirely up to the individual Mason.

there not the same, the one on the left is a Master Masons apron, the man next to him on the right is wearing a worshipful Master apron,

Thanks much for the information!

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thanks.

I thought that picture said this lodge was from NYC on 23rd st


Maybe I read it wrong

originally posted by: Joecroft
Yeah, but’s that not what I’m focusing on…

Also, what I brought up is just but one example…

You can cherry pick and focus on what you want, when you read the book and understand what Pike was doing let me know.

You do realize I admitted on page one of this thread, that I believe demons exist…in a round about manner…based on past personal experience….

And?

originally posted by: Willtell
Thanks.

I thought that picture said this lodge was from NYC on 23rd st


Maybe I read it wrong

It may have said that but it doesn't look like 23rd to me, I have been there several times and I did not see a pic of the Queen. It could be a Canadian lodge since those crazy cats love them some Queenie.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
You can cherry pick and focus on what you want, when you read the book and understand what Pike was doing let me know.

Cherry picking is where you specifically pick out certain verses or lines and make it fit your own personal perspective or belief…I didn’t do any of that…

I’m focused on the parts regarding demons, because that’s the topic of my OP…

Admittedly I haven’t read all of the book…so I don’t claim to understand all it…

Originally posted Joecroft
You do realize I admitted on page one of this thread, that I believe demons exist…in a round about manner…based on past personal experience….

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
And?

Well, one can only assume you think I’m delusional, just because I’ve had an experience in the past…

- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
Cherry picking is where you specifically pick out certain verses or lines and make it fit your own personal perspective or belief…I didn’t do any of that…

Says the guy who did not read the book and only quoted certain passages that he has no clue the relevance of.

Well, one can only assume you think I’m delusional, just because I’ve had an experience in the past…

No need to assume, I was pretty blunt with my statement.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
Says the guy who did not read the book and only quoted certain passages that he has no clue the relevance of.

So one needs to understand the whole book, just to discuss certain passages contained within it…???

Plus, I was asking Sahabi his opinion on it…

And it wasn’t cherry picking, I brought up parts which mention “demons” and “evil spirits”, within a Masonic book…

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
No need to assume, I was pretty blunt with my statement.

So you think I’m delusional, just because I believe Demons exist…?


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
So one needs to understand the whole book, just to discuss certain passages contained within it…???

How can you discuss the passages if you don't understand what Pike is trying to accomplish?

So you think I’m delusional, just because I believe Demons exist…?

Yup.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
How can you discuss the passages if you don't understand what Pike is trying to accomplish?

Well, I understand it to a certain extent…

But your missing the point, I don’t need to understand everything about it, when I’m asking someone else their opinion on it…

I mean, it’s not as if I’ve made some grandiose statements, as to what it all means…

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
Yup.

Well, if someone I knew in real life had witnessed a UFO, or seen a ghost, I would never call them delusional…assuming of course they were rational human beings, in other areas of their lives etc…

Of course, over the internet who can really tell…

Anyway, just not my style…


- JC

I went to junior mason summercamp and they said demons are things that bring out the bad in you.

There's a demon near my window that makes me curse. Plugged into the outlet.

originally posted by: Sauron
a reply to: Willtell

The Men in the dark blue are what is called Grand Lodge Officers here in Ontario.
Grand Lodge oversees all Lodges in it's jurisdiction, to guide, help Lodges with Masonic instruction.

Before a Mason can be a GL officer he must first prove him self as a sitting Master of his Lodge.
After that he is free if he wishes to continue forward through the Grand Lodge Chairs, (Offices), right up to Grand Master

I appreciate the information.

Regarding those blue aprons depicting the degrees you informed me about, is there any thing you could tell me about the meaning of the symbols as they are configured on those aprons or about the symbols themselves.

a reply to: Willtell

the link here can tell more about our Aprons The apron and its symbolism

ROSETTES
The origin of rosettes on the F.C. and M.M. aprons is also unknown. In England they were a comparatively late introduction, and were not prescribed officially until 1815, when they were specifically designed to differentiate the three grades. It is probable, however, that their original purpose was purely ornamental. There is a German Masonic medal or jewel, dated 1744 (or possibly 1755), which shows an apron with three rosettes. (See Illustrations h and k.)
Unfortunately, there is no trace of a Grand Lodge at that period, either English or European, which prescribed the use of rosettes, and in the circumstances we are compelled to assume that they were purely decorative. This does not exclude the possibility, however, that they may have had a more practical significance in the Lodges in which they were worn.
SQUARES OR LEVELS
There appears to be no official name for the squares or levels which decorate the apron of a Master or Past Master. The 1815 Constitutions described them as "perpendicular lines upon horizontal lines, thereby forming three several sets of (two) right angles", and originally they were to be of inch-wide ribbon. The same definition appears in the present Constitutions, though nowadays the emblems are usually of silver or white metal. They were designed only for purpose of distinction. (See Illustration m.)

One reason why there exists secret orders within all kinds of systems of spiritual learning is what our great Teaching Master Jesus taught us…

Now please, no offense to anyone meant here.

Jesus said this

“Cast not pearls at the feet of swine”

Many of us, and I’m am not innocent of this impulse, do take lightly knowledge, particularly what is considered divine or arcane knowledge and make mockery of it, sometime unintentionally or sometimes through learned bigotry.

This is often unintentional and based on ignorance and juvenile attitudes towards strange and arcane subjects.

I have learned the hard way to have the utmost respect for serious people who have arcane beliefs.

a reply to: Joecroft

Hello again Joecroft This is probably not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.

Albert Pike did write those things. However, Pike also said, in the book's preface, that as much as half of the book leans on uncited and unsourced material from other religious and philosophic systems; for the purpose of comparing, contrasting, and understanding other perspectives.

Pike further states that "Morals and Dogma" is not sacramental to Freemasonry, does not embody the doctrines of the Rite, and only stands as Pike's subjective teaching; not dogma. He further invites anyone to reject or rebut his writing.

"In preparing this work, the Grand Commander [Albert Pike] has been about equally Author and Compiler; since he has extracted quite half its contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers. Perhaps it would have been better and more acceptable if he had extracted more and written less.

Still, perhaps half of it is his own; and, in incorporating here the thoughts and words of others, he has continually changed and added to the language, often intermingling, in the same sentences, his own words with theirs."

.....

"He claims, therefore, little of the merit of authorship, and has not cared to distinguish his own from that which he has taken from other sources, being quite willing that every portion of the book, in turn, may be regarded as borrowed from some old and better writer."

"The teachings of these Readings are not sacramental, so far as they go beyond the realm of Morality into those of other domains of Thought and Truth. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite uses the word "Dogma" in its true sense, of doctrine, or teaching; and is not dogmatic in the odious sense of that term. Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound."

.....

"Of course, the ancient theosophic and philosophic speculations are not embodied as part of the doctrines of the Rite; but because it is of interest and profit to know what the Ancient Intellect thought upon these subjects, and because nothing so conclusively proves the radical difference between our human and the animal nature, as the capacity of the human mind to entertain such speculations in regard to itself and the Deity."

As AugustusMasonicus has mentioned; throughout world Freemasonry, Pike was only instructional to the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States. This is also mentioned in the preface to "Morals and Dogma":

"The following work has been prepared by authority of the Supreme Council of the Thirty-third Degree, for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States, by the Grand Commander [Albert Pike], and is now published by its direction. It contains the Lectures of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite in that jurisdiction, and is specially intended to be read and studied by the Brethren of that obedience, in connection with the Rituals of the Degrees."

My Obedience hails from the lineage of French Scotch Masters, the "Primitive Scottish Rite", and the "Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite". Albert Pike has absolutely no bearing or influence on our Lodges.

Belief and opinions of demons is a personal matter, and each Freemason is free to their own personal view.

If we're going to be discussing Pike, we should be specific in noting that, though not authoritative, Pike's work is instructional only to the Scottish Rite of the Southern Jurisdiction of the U.S.. Perhaps we could find someone of that Jurisdiction and ask them their personal opinions on Pike's writings?

Or do you just want to talk about demons in general? Because I don't have any official edicts based upon demons in my Obedience.

originally posted by: Joecroft
But your missing the point, I don’t need to understand everything about it, when I’m asking someone else their opinion on it…

You're missing the point, we all gave you our opinions, you just don't like that they don't align with yours.

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: WombRaider69

Originally posted WombRaider69
Do you really think a true Mason would admit demons exist?

Why not…tons of other religions believe in them…

Plus Masons believe in the teachings of Jesus to some extent, and Jesus believed in Demons, so it kinda makes sense...

- JC

Ok, this is blatantly wrong. There are many different brothers from all different religious beliefs and backrounds. Personally as a Mason myself I do NOT believe in "demons" I also do not follow the teachings of Jesus in any way. I pick at this particular post due to you coming across with this as if it were fact, you are making statements as if they are facts when the main object of your discussion is obviously something you are not educated in. So many people claim to have knowledge about what we are, what we do, what we think and so on when you/them are not taken as a brother among us.... then of course I hear the "you are just not high enough to know about this or that yet" ... Really? and somehow "you" as a non member of this brotherhood know more then me? How did you attain this knowledge from the outside?

Do not come into a conversation making claims that you want to have taken as fact when that very sentence shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

a reply to: Joecroft

Its like asking what is the white peoples's view on demons?

How can any freemason answer such a broad ❓

There is Christians, Muslim, Buddhists, Hindus etc..

and even Atheists freemasons under The Grand Orient de France.

To each their beliefs. If a mason is Christian than I suppose he does believe in demons.

If another mason is free of all religious Dogmas but believes in a Creator only then he would prolly not believe in demons.

And if some lonewolf mason would believe that Satan was Creator of all things. How would it even be pertinent to freemasonry as a whole.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted AugustusMasonicus
You're missing the point, we all gave you our opinions, you just don't like that they don't align with yours.

I respect all the opinions given so far and have taken them on board…

Anyway, what did you think my opinion was…?


- JC

a reply to: MrAoxx


Well, I’m not a Mason…so I obviously don’t claim to know everything about Masonry, otherwise I wouldn’t be asking those questions in my OP…

I was under the impression that all freemasons believed in at least some aspects of Jesus teachings…

If it is inside knowledge that the above is not the case, and due to the fact I’m not a Mason…then I gave the best possible response I could give to WombRaiders69 question, under the circumstances…


- JC