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Disclosure, would it equal chaos?

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posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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I think there would be a large difference between the response of the general public to EBE's being revealed by, say the UN, or the EBE's revealing themselves.

If they are presented to us by the UN, it would appear that us humans
were 'in control' of the situation and are welcoming them as our guests.
If however they reveal themselves without prior warning given to
governments etc, there would be a chaotic situation generated purely on
humans not being 'in control'.

But there are still gonna be some people who freak out either way, but to a
majority of the western world I believe they'll be accepted as a novelty if nothing else. As long as they don't look sinister or scary by human standards they'll be onto a winner.

If they challenge our religious beliefs, this will be a bigger problem in other parts of the world than in the west....(Mentioning no names).
We humans challenge each others religious beliefs all the time, but the
closed-mindedness of some parts of some religions will be a major worry.
When it comes to dissing religions, and fighting because of it, we'll manage on our own, thanks.

Also, take into account there's the possibility that they are not the 'omnipotent' beings we think they are. Space travel may seem a
doddle to them, but they may have stumbled across how to do it by
accident. Their grasp of physics and engineering may have leapt forward because of this but they may be lacking in other scientific disciplines.

As to the widespread instability of industry this may cause....hmmm not so sure. Obviously, if we have free energy, that will be the end of a lot of
oil companies for example, but unless the EBE's have brought with them a
limitless source of materials and labour, who is gonna build your FTL-speed
2-seater? Yeah, it'll be Boeing or Ford or whoever. Strong companies can
adapt to the marketplace. Surely Mr Gates will be in the running to be one of the makers of the 2000Ghz virtual reality holographic home entertainment system as previously developed by our alien guests.

Made under license by Microsoft.




posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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"Mr. Bush, you're no longer the son of god"
Bush: "Ruh? God! Whay has yous forsaken me???"

Or not. But I think a disclosure in form of a newscast some day would be a little stupid. I think if the gvmnt could call the shots it would be some kinda internation education day about we not being the only ones, you stupid close-minded humans.


That and everyone over 55 would totally freak out and kill themselfes.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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lol electric scooters are also not mentioned in the bible.. does that mean they freak out whenever they see one?



There's a big difference between extraterrestrials and electric scooters don't ya think?






posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by meshuggah1324
There's a big difference between extraterrestrials and electric scooters don't ya think?


nope, extraterrestrials are an advanced form of life just as electric scooters are an advanced form of transportation compared to whatever they had when the bible was written.

My point is that the interpretation of the bible can adapt to changing circumstances due to the fact that its intrinsic value is one that transcends time and space.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by mwm1331

Lets say hypothetically that the US and world government are aware of advanced alien life vsiting the earth, and have been in contact and negotiaton with them for decades. lets further assume they announced this and introduced an alien ambassador on TV.

Would ths cuse wdespread panic and instabillity? I don't believe it would, for the most part I think people would go on with thier lives as normal. But what if they also announced a technology sharing treaty?


I think if one looks past the initial timeframe during which existing societies would have to acclimate, things would probably pretty much return to normal.

Remember: as human beings, we are inherently resistant to change. Affecting change to any significant degree would most likely be resisted to a great degree due to the very significance of the implications of the change itself.

The second stage, once we work through the resident fears and uncertainties which accompany any significant degree of change, is acceptance of the change.

The third stage is acclimation, where poeple, industries, and our very scoieties will either adjust or adapt to varying degrees of success.

I saw the "red state - blue state" example raised, but look at us now. Have we not moved past the electionas a country? It seems as if everyone pretty much has, to some varying degree of success, said, "Okay, it's time to move on with the given situation," or, "So we got lemons. Let's make lemonade," or however it is internalized... The point being that regardless of how contentious we were to one another one various red state/blue state issues prior to the debate, haven't we all more or less "moved on?"


Just off the top of my head I can think of many industries which would immediatly become worthless were they to give us free energy, anti grav and FTL travel.


So true. However, such an act (read: disclosure) would simply be the catalyst for inevitable change. Again, it is the fear of change, as well as the accompnying uncertainty, that in istelf seems to be the barrier. We've had hyrdrogen and fuel-cell technology availble for decades. Yet why has it never found it's way into our lives? Because the auto industry in the U.S. alone is a $440 billion industry. The ripple-effect of sudden economic change on such a magnitude would probably resemble if not completely eclipse the economic effects of September 11th. It is probably therefore advisable to seguey into such advancements, simply to mitigate the effects of such significant change to every possible degree.

But as mentioned, this would only be the catatlyst. Such changes are already taking place. That they will sooner or later take hold is inevitable. It is simply a matter of time. New technologies re already emerging which will revolutionize manufacturing and make most mass-assembly manufacturing obsolete. Click here, here, here or here for more on Solid Freeform Fabrication -- we'll all have one of these in our homes in the not-too-distant future:



So as this technology becomes availble to the general public, i.e., when Trailormart "rolls back" prices on the entry level unit to a couple hundo, manufacturing as we know it will die.

Regarding the availbility of free energy, mainstream academics is just now beginning to completely embrace Zero-Point Field Theory, even though Nikolas Tesla explored it nearly a century ago. Hell, you can even download the schematics for a workable DIY tesla coil off the internet! I've often toyed with the idea of building a device that would generate 400 volts of free energy from $200 of hardware from Radioshack...


The worldwide aerospace industry would be rendered obsolete in seconds, as would the energy industry. Transport, shipping, medicine and pharmacueticals, not too mention, astronomy amd physics research, all would become obsolete assuming the aliens were willing to share thier knowledge. the educatonal system and all of those in academic fields, would instantly find our degrees worthless, except for historty and literature majors.

When viewed in ths context are you sure you want full disclosure?


Yes, indeed, the changes of what you speak are simply beyond significant. IMHO, I have to belive such changes are already underway, as mentioned in the above examples of Solid Freeform Fabrication, alternative-fuel transportation (such as fuel cell and hydrogen technology, both of which exist in working models and/or prototypes), and Zero-Point Field Theory.

The key is to mitigate the risks associated with such tremendous and sudden change, and it is not too far a stretch to imagine then that perhaps the easiest transition possible, even if over the course of generations, is probably the best approach.

I am curious, mwm, as to how such a scenario would effect you personally if those who came were to claim to posess and/or share knowledge that while contradictory to your accepted dogma, may not contradict, but rather simply modify your framework of belief?


I ask this with all due respect, and am simply and genuinely curious...





posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 05:30 PM
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Honestly, I have a sneaking suspicion that "first contact" on a widely known scale will occur one of two ways, and the government won't figure into either of them. Firstly, it could occur much like it did in Star Trek - First Contact, where the Vulcans landed on Earth after seeing that we had created warp technology. In that instance, it would be a rather peaceful first contact, since we already knew that we had the technology to travel to other worlds, and therefore weren't quite so surprised that there was other life that had done the same thing.

On the other hand, it could also be something like the beginning of "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" where the Vogons just appeared in hundreds of locations over Earth, ready to demolish the planet to make way for an interstellar bypass. After a short debate that we had plenty of chance to see the publicly available records on Alpha Centauri, the Earth is demolished anyway.

Of course, switching back into a grounding more in reality, I would suppose that if the government was to make a disclosure of the existence of aliens, I feel that it would have to be in small doses, gradually getting us more acclimated to the idea that we're not alone. Many people on ATS would probably want a full disclosure right off the bat, but frankly, 99% of the human race would probably freak out upon hearing everything at the same time. I would imagine that a government disclosure would start off with small bits of information, such as the decaying structures on the moon, and gradually work up to confirming UFO sighting for what they are, later revealing that there are aliens in protected areas on Earth, and finally in a full admittance to involvement and trade with alien races. Honestly, I still don't think, that with any of this, we would ever really know the truth behind things like Roswell, Area 51 (which I've always believed that it's mostly an experimental aircraft facility - the B2 is known to have been tested there, though never completely disbelieved the possibility of alien life and spacecraft there), and other such UFO/alien events of the past. I'm guessing that the web of lies would be far too extensive to explain, and that the general public would forget about things like this after realizing, in cold, hard fact, that alien life does exist, and is on this planet.

Perhaps it's already begun with the investigation of the asteroid from Mars, on which we found fossils that appear to be bacteria very similar to Earthbound ones.

Perhaps it's also possible that the government has been forced into non-disclosure by these alien races, much like they've forced their own employees into non-disclosure on many other instances.

Finally, don't you think that if an alien race was planning on revealing themselves to the population of Earth, that they've probably done it before, and are therefore taking their time with the process, to avoid a catastrophic response?


gl2

posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Consider the following: If, as could easily be the case, the purpose of abductions and the widely reported breeding program is to insert direct (abducting) alien operatives here, to get at least some measure of control, i.e. of our resources (possibly for larger reasons that have little to do with right or wrong), then disclosure would blow the lid. Those gray-related aliens wouldn't want that, and, if, indeed, their program has managed to secure high level placements, they would try to thwart it. Even some of those non-"federation" aliens who oppose the abductors wouldn't have wanted disclosure during our Cold War nuclear insanity, fearing that we'd botch the whole project by framing it in terms of Joe Stalin or Ronald Reagan. Now, however, it can be done, indeed the Acclimation Project of limited disclosure is favored by the "good guys" in black budget sectors, while the bad guys don't want any of it. The Navy intelligence has tended to remain independent of the narco dealing, murderous cabal types in all of this, hence they may be the only branch that could do a decent job of disclosure. Bush's White House is too corrupt, as is the privatized MAJI sector, largely, to do it right. So, at present, with Bush in office, disclosure is only possible in limited doses, and by other countries. Which is what we see.

Private disclosure, i.e. by CSETI, is better and must proceed with vigor. Imagine what an alien compromised mess of disclosure the narco dealing CIA and BUSH-related hacks would make of the subject if we left it to them. Aliens would be the enemy, except for those "federation" aliens who have cut dirty deals with the Bush types. We'd be a simple minded colony for their use, and our awareness wouldn't even be important to them UNLESS, of course, we could be absorbed by their federation and controlled, used, in short, for the puposes of an overgrown and arrogant off-world bureaucracy. No bureaus, actually. Instead, it appears to be a psychotronically policed state. It kills entire planets to serve its greedy agenda, masking it all the while in terms of a collective.

We're ready for disclosure. Most seem to think aliens exist. It would advance our thinking dramatically, very quickly. The US government isn't decent enough to do it right, at the moment. Ironically, the collective global population is the only entity that can do it right. That seems to be consistent with a larger universal order of being. After disclosure would come greater sharing, arguments about whether to militarize or abandon our puny pretensions in favor of funding the basic ecology. Plus some struggle between the elites of greed and manipulation versus those who see better possibilities in learning from selected alien social examples.

[edit on 5-2-2005 by gl2]



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 09:30 PM
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Do we brief the public? Yay or nay?

That's the question John Lear asked Art Bell after Lear presented his Disclosure Briefing on Coast to coast AM radio show, 11/2/03.

www.paradigmclock.com...



[edit on 8-2-2005 by evilution]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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Humanity will never be ready for such a revelation. Its just too huge to adjust to, so it may as well come out because it will come out one way or another. Much like any other harsh reality of life such as foreknowledge of impending death, ET visitation will have to be made known to all for better or worse. The secret is just too enormous to remain hidden forever from public view. When that time comes, I only hope that the public can accept it like they accept any other portion of reality that they live with on a daily basis.

Many people won't be ready for it. I know at least a couple of people who seemingly have had their version of reality destroyed by September 11, 2001. Surprising to me since they had no relation to any of the victims other than sharing their human heritage and nationality. This event did change some people I know for the worse. Knowledge of ETs may well give these people heart attacks.

I fully expect the news to hit people like a hammer over their head just as the events of 09/11/01 did to so many. Numbing them for a good long while. I don't expect the chaos to begin until at least a month or more after the news to give people time to soak in the myriad of information which will surely come from such an event.

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Frith]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
People would be shocked for a week and there'd be round-the-clock TV coverage but then people would get used to it and go back to everyday life.


i do definately agree with you on that, the government imo will never release some it's more deeper complex files, but to say they won't release smaller cases, will happen. Ufo's will probally come out of the woodwork, but some the government's more deeper stories and what they have found might not. The public will get a small dose of who and what they are, nothing else. I wonder if the mexican debriefing and the mod are just the begining?



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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"For those, then, who wish to use this scenario as a basis for making the real world argument against disclosure, consider this: after 56 years of research in the modern era of ufology, there are a few certainties you can take to the bank. Two of these are: 1) there is an extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race, and 2) no one in the field of extraterrestrial related phenomena research/activism knows the big picture. No one has it right. If they are well intentioned and paying attention, they very likely have some of it right, a piece here and there. And if you took all the correct pieces from all the researchers, you might have a mosaic which came close to the truth.

And the reason this is so is that everyone’s big picture, however awful or sanguine, is composed in large measure of second-hand information, hearsay, and much of it is simply not true. Not true because of government dispensed disinformation, well intentioned misinterpretation, outright hoaxes by private parties, simple mistake, delusion and even alien mendacity. "


This is exactly what i think. From all the sources ive seen it the only conclusion would be that the most of the worlds nations are just as confused as all of us here. Even a british MOD person (sorry forgot the name) that was into UFO research on the government side says theyre just as baffeled as everyone else.

The US government probably really had access to some alien technology, but apparently what they know is scary to them so they logically assume it would be scary to their children,mothers....the rest of us....you get my point. It would be kinda scary if the most powerfull nation on earth admitted that there are aliens around us doing what they please, and we cant do anything about it.
Its a big possibility in my opinion, that they havent been able to reverse engineer squat so theyre keeping it quiet becouse they really have nothing to brag about



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 12:31 PM
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As posted by Irma



Surely Mr Gates will be in the running to be one of the makers of the 2000Ghz virtual reality holographic home entertainment system as previously developed by our alien guests.


Are we sure Bill Gates isn't actually an alien?


The worst part about disclosure would be us. What would we do with all of the free time we would then have? No longer would we debate the existence of alien beings. No longer would we question why are they here. We would already have the answers.

Frankly ladies and gentlemen, I'm not ready to devote my free time to watching paint dry. I ask you to encourage your local, state, and federal representatives to deny all knowledge of alien existence.




posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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I actually believe that disclosure would not bring wide spread panic to the world. There has been enough information (I use that word loosely) about aliens, that I feel most people would accept the fact and move on. Yes, some business changes would be inevitable, but the majority of business would adapt to the new technology. In fact, some new industries might even be formed.

Of course, your die hard religous extremists would probably mostly deny any existence even if faced with hard evidence. There would be others who would not accept as well.

Well, those are my thoughts.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
When viewed in ths context are you sure you want full disclosure?
The question is by what?


Full disclosure would mean removing certain people from their positions as well as rendering oil worthless. imo



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by keymaster
As posted by Irma



Surely Mr Gates will be in the running to be one of the makers of the 2000Ghz virtual reality holographic home entertainment system as previously developed by our alien guests.


Are we sure Bill Gates isn't actually an alien?


The worst part about disclosure would be us. What would we do with all of the free time we would then have? No longer would we debate the existence of alien beings. No longer would we question why are they here. We would already have the answers.

Frankly ladies and gentlemen, I'm not ready to devote my free time to watching paint dry. I ask you to encourage your local, state, and federal representatives to deny all knowledge of alien existence.



Keymaster, why do you say that? If disclosure ever comes about, there will still be things to argue about. Like what member of nsync the aliens like, what they think of the obeseity problem in america, have they ever heard of emo before, and what types of perms they like getting
. No serously, in all honesty all the questions won't be answered. If any government does admit there are aliens in full, alot of people might forget all the other stories associated with it. If we learn anything from aliens, more questions will arise, and more answers will evantually come out of the wood work to. If the way above poster said has any truth, how the alot of governments and people are just as confused as we are, should be brought out into the public. Maybe if it's in an open enviroment we can get better answers. And even maybe some interesting ideas and opinions from the populace. Roswell happened almost 60 years ago, i think it's time the general public get's on the bandwagon to.

[edit on 10-2-2005 by malakiem]



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 03:34 AM
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Why does everyone assume that a "species" of "intelligent" life from another world would automatically want to have anything to do with us or our societies?

It is this arrogant thinking that would more than likely undermine the basic fact that we are human and they are not. Whoever or whatever they might be...

1. The universe does not center around Earth.

2. Unknown circumstances concerning another race of life.

Let's talk about 1. We are here in a vast ocean of nothing, there are billions of miles of nothing in between our planet and other planets. Which makes us pretty small in the scope of things galacticly speaking.

We cannot travel far from this planet, nor can we exist indefinately outside it. This brings us to 2.

Lets talk about 2. O.k. so we think we have detected something spying on us from another world. This is bad. An intergalactic space faring sentient species is the last thing you would want to encounter. Why? For the reasons in problem #1. We are alone here, and we cannot co-exist peacfully yet, with limited technology, and that means a limited threat potential to a race that has covered all bases of science.

We must assume this because they would be here. They would have had to discover a multitude of survival type sciences to make it throughout the galaxy, this could mean being able to detect and manuver around black holes, adapt and cope with varing radiation levels, varing types of harmful particles, terraforming, spacial objects, dark matter, time and space problem solving, energy/fuel restraints must have been overcome etc...

Basically this means you would have a race of creatures that are ahead of us by all manner of technological breakthroughs.

A species that had made it to earth would have little regard for the "animals" inhabiting this planet I'm afraid I would have to say.

I'm afraid they would not be friendly. It's just not logical. What could we offer them? Who is to say that in their travels we aren't oddity entry number 2045 in their habitated planets database. We might not seem as special to them as we seem to convence ourselves, we are to ourselves.

How special or significant would you seem to a space faring race that has seen vast distances of space first hand.

From an Advanced Alien perspective, imagine watching a species that still creates technology that harms it own bodies, it's own atmosphere.

When people dream about wanting or theorizing an encounter from another world, I just don't think you really know what you could be asking for.

I would not want to encounter another species from another world.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 08:03 AM
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You assume that alien visitors have a hostile agenda. If they were going to destroy us or enslave us, don't you think they already would have? Although our technology isn't as advanced as theirs, it is more advanced than it was in the early 1900's. We have had reports of sightings since man started recording history. Why would they not eliminate us before we might pose a possible threat to them?

I believe we were brought here by an alien race and they monitor us. We are a scientific study or entertainment for them. Picture an ant farm on an entire planet. Welcome to Earth.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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If a full disclosure were to happen,I don't want it to happen during my lifetime.

Seriously though,the effects would cause tremendous shock and by that I mean really really shock the daylights out of the public.People would loss total faith in everything they do and life to them would seem like a charade.Religious system worldwide will crumble,the public will be in total anarchy and the political system would never be the same again.

The worst case scenario would be that we as Human beings would plunge into the depths of insecurity and living would seem useless.If I were "The Powers That Be" watching over us,be it humans/god/aliens,I will never give a full disclosure to the public unless I am 101% sure that they're ready for it.This is why I understand the cover-up for all the mess is a neccessity for everyone involved.

A full disclosure would mean the boundaries between reality and imagination is shattered.The trauma would be too much for us as Humans,a sensitive intelligent creature,to handle.

I won't vote for any disclosure anytime in my life.Well,maybe when I'm almost dead.Should be fun seeing the shock before I die.


[edit on 10/2/05 by Heartagram]


gl2

posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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Imagine: disclosure tomorrow. It would have to be coordinated globally. It would be limited at first, then an international debate would surface: how much do we tell the public and do we stress security first? The old regime (which could easily be infiltrated by provocateurs, given the breeding program that abductees report) would want to inflame the issue: either arm against bad crazy aliens who want to steal our guano, our women and our guns, or join the federation---cut a deal that "profits" us. The strictly human militarists would want to pose the gray bodies and tell about their attacks on us, but the majority of all people everywhere (including in most governments) would want the straight dope (not the cabal's dope, literally).

Instead of panic, it would all be fairly easy. People would begin to read, some corrupt regimes would try to manipulate the situation to benefit the most greedy. Federation compromised people would try to inflame the situation (i.e. Bush's apocalyptic viewpoint, Boylan's Earth Changes--caused by those same colonizing aliens, ironically, and James Watts' famous quote that we don't need to worry about the environment because after the last tree is cut, the rapture will begin and Jesus will come back to settle all matters). But what about the average, marginally educated voter? They would sit, take it all in, and probably feel that it was all very important but they would need more info to sort it all out. The typical attitude might be: how can we get them on our side, or how do we at least freeze the situation to avoid provoking them and learn how to do some of what they do (not all).

The Catholic Church is ready: Monsigneur Balducci of the Vatican has already said it won't upset their outlook--he admits they probably exist. But it's the corrupt Jerry Falwells (Falwell took a $1 million loan from heroin/
CIA racketeer Wally Hilliard, who ran the flight school that trained Mohammed Atta and other terrorists--Hilliard "forgave" the loan, giving the $ free to Falwell), the head-chopping Saudi monarchs and the arch-cabal families like that part of the Du Pont family that we have to worry about. They have a different agenda that may not correspond to the common sense human mainstream.

One week after disclosure, we'd all be talking about it. Some would have read books like Jim Marr's Alien Agenda--basic introductions to the subject, and would begin to feel like experts. What would be interesting is how the government tries to discredit certain written literature about aliens and tries to impose its own orthodoxy about aliens. How much of the straight government "dope" about aliens would the majority believe? Way too much, because the government will hold too many of the cards. They can make a mess of it, an aliens as the enemy rationale for a new Cold War, or they can offer aliens as connected to Jesus, if they want to.

Which goes to show: we need to get the public up to speed before an apocalyptic regime like that of Bush tries to toss the subject onto the fire--like he wants to burn the books about ecology. In short, disclosure will be done better by OTHER countries. The US is too corrupt, the legislature too much of a silenced boys choir, to do it correctly. Trust the people. Vote for disclosure, then help to actually DO IT. A bird in hand is worth two done by the Bushies.

[edit on 10-2-2005 by gl2]

[edit on 10-2-2005 by gl2]



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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Yes I think it would be chaotic for the religious public - 10 years ago.
Now I think it would mostly be chaotic for the US Administration who discloses the EBE/UFO facts to the world, in terms of not being re-elected regardless of it being a last term in office, the party would go down during the next election.
Dallas



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