I should have done this already.
Genesis 16:10 The angel of the Lord appeared to her and said to her, "I will greatly multiply your offspring that they can not be counted.
That was Hagar receiving a message from an angel about what God will do for her child. God obviously cares about Ishmael and Hagar.
16:3 Abrams wife, took Hagar the Egyptian, her slave girl, andgave her to her husband AS A WIFE.
Last I checked a wife, slave or not, was a wife and a son BY a wife is LEGITIMATE.
Making a spectactle of Hagar's being a slave is an immoral argument as a biological son is a son BUT they WERE MARRIED.
All you Anti-Ishmaelites with fetishes for trying to discredit your own scriptures in order to slander...Islam because it's connected to Ishmael, are
finding out how little you know. Now.
Genesis 15, God makes Covenant with Abraham.
17 The Sign of the Covenant (chapter title)
18. "Oh that Ishmael may live in your sight!"
Says Abraham, who is told to establish an everlasting covenant for his offspring (Isaac), established with Isaac, we all know.
20. As for Ishmael, I have HEARD YOU; I WILL BLESS HIM AND MAKE HIM FRUITFUL AND EXCEEDINGLY NUMEROUS, THE FATHER OF TWELVE GREAT PRINCES.
Certainly the Covenant is "established" through Isaac, but Ishmael pbuh is still a MEMBER of said Covenant.
17:23 Then Abraham took Ishmael and all the slaves in his house or bought with his money, EVERY MALE among the men of Abraham's house, and he
circumcised the flesh of their foreskins that very day, AS GOD HAD SAID TO HIM....
26. That same day Abraham AND HIS SON ISHMAEL WERE CIRCUMCISED.
So Ishmael was a member of Isaac's Covenant, inherited from Abraham by rite of circumcision, so who cares if it was established through Isaac, it
doesn't void Ishmaels initiation, so to speak, as ordered by God in the first place, it just makes Isaacs special.
I will settle for God's blessing and being just a member of a Covenant, I don't need it to be through Jacob, as the Bible makes clear the line of
Ishmael was a part of a Covenant that was performed with Abraham on the same day as Abraham and it is through circumcision.
It's as irrevocable as Isaac's special Covenant and so is God's blessings.
And the curse of Canaan, who because of Judah's 3 Canaanite wives, who knows maybe Judah's children who also married Canaanites, inherited it!
Point is if you need to insult Islam, through denigrating Ishmael and Hagar (and denying it most likely with some garbage "logic" as you contradict
the Torah) or any religion period, you violate the second greatest commandment (and likely deny it too) to "Love your neighbor as yourself" and in the
world of religion Abrahamic religions are neighbors and brothers of One God and many Prophets, even if we have slight differences the similarities are
greater to the point it isn't an issue in the absence of religous bigotry.
Not my thing guys so I am not going to join in your little hate-speech, as I am comfortable enough with my Faith I don't need to attack others.
I don't need to be the "my religion is better than your religion" guy or make fallacious arguments because I actually know this stuff and I don't mind
the little differences between our religions as some do.
I just quoted enough of the Bible to prove my point beyond dispute.
Without pretending to know a story I don't, because I know it well. Didn't think it was necessary to quote but if people who don't understand the
Bible want to denigrate Ishmael and Mohammed (pbut)...
Well I just have let God tell you in your own scripture so I don't need to do anything ever again regarding justifying the legitimacy of Ishmael.
It's funny in my second message I stated I partially make this to show people just like that who say just these things to render Islam (in their half
baked minds) illegitimate.
Even if it means misrepresenting the Torah.
Have fun revoking God's blessings!!
Seems futile, but I won't tell you how to waste your time. It's your wasted time.
Because if Ishmaels circumcision didn't count then neither did Abrahams but the chapter in which they get circumcised is titles in my Bible as "The
Sign of the Covenant."
You people don't know your scriptures.
I should not have to explain Torah to you.
But I enjoy doing it because I know it well.
But I was once a "Christian" I thought.
Then I really read the whole Bible and realized that Paul is still the enemy of Jesus pbuh the "Wolf of Benjamin and leaven of the Pharisees.'' He
hates James and "...men of James sent to spy on our freedom in Christ."
"Circumcision faction" is what he also calls them even with the Jerusalem Council declaration of it not being necessary to burden the Greeks/goyim
Violates his agreement to abide by the prohibition (of the Holy Spirit as was the general decree of said council) against idol meat, which Paul
rebukes as for "weak brothers."
Calls the Torah a curse, Abraham "an allegory" says that the Law was "Ordained by angels."
I know God isn't an angel and personally ordains the Law. Angels don't have anything to do with creating Law, or anything, God does everything
Himself, despite how Genesis apparently reads, it's common in the Qur'an for God to refer to Himself as "We", constant actually, so I read it
differently and so do Jews who refuse to believe angels participate in Creation as they don't exist until the "Luminaries" which means "Heavenly
Hosts(bodies) and refers to the angels in the Tanakh constantly. (2/3 of the stars swept out of the shy means angels, for instance, Rev.).
And Jesus pbuh never knew Paul as he condemns his little idol meat teaching in Revelation as the teaching of Balaam...a stumbling block for Israel, he
obviously wasn't revealing secrets to him or anything at all.
And he self appointed himself as an "apostle" while none of the 12 EVER refer to him as such and 12 is the maximum according to Rev., again that books
is revealing as the 7 Churches of Asia are "All those who are in Asia have turned from me" and only hints at Paul as one who says he is an apostle and
is not, is a liar, discovered, rejected and Jesus(pbuh) praises them.
Only one person in the Bible fits the description, and the rest supports it, they support each other, it is Paul.
"I think I am not the least inferior to these super-apostles."
They thought so.
He lies to James in Jerusalem regarding his anti-Mosaic teachings, denies he advocates abandoning the Law he calls "a curse."
So I converted to Islam because Jesus pbuh denies any equality with God and never asks to be worshipped or called "God." Not even in Christian
And Paul infiltrated and corrupted Nazarene Judaism into a dying god cult.
edit on 22-5-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason