Burn the House to Kill a Fly - Notre Dame grads don't know the meaning of Sacred

originally posted by: Kali74
Sacred is in the eye of the beholder. I can see how many students felt like the commencement was tainted by Pence. I can also see myself looking back 20 years from now and still being proud of myself for having walked out of the commencement. All those graduates went back to their individual colleges and walked for their degrees there.

A bunch of ZERO tolerant goons really. Makes the ND look bad, ill mannered, academics tainted by tolerance of the intolerant.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

You would seriously be more concerned with blame than concerned about the child?

I would be concerned that the child didn't learn the good lesson taught by the parent.

You're really big on eternal condemnation, aren't you? I'm glad I don't go to your church.

I'd love to read more on this. Got any links?

time.com...

a reply to: TheRedneck

I wonder... Just how many of these same grads accept
political leadership from a Party that belies their cause?

Dare I ask, could they be brainwashed?

"No one is so blind as he who will not see"

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Grambler

They are already very familiar with his ideas. This was not a discussion forum - it was a speech, which means the only way they could debate would be to shout out during his speech. You would think that was rude, wouldn't you?

If Hitler were to speak at a commencement after he had said and did such horrible things, and students were to walk out in protest, would you think they were immoral or "divisive" for doing so? Admittedly that is an extreme example, but the point is, these students were very much against what Pence stands for and what he has done or tried to do with legislation against gays.

Any student is free to drop a class that has curriculum they don't like or don't agree with. Not every single class in college discusses white privilege.

Yes it would have been rude to shout at him, and as I mentioned in my post.

Comparing Pence to Hitler is laughable, and again points to a major problem with politics and disagreements in this country.

Again, you can cheer this on all you want. But when you wonder why people can have a civil discussion with people they disagree with anymore, remember you thought it was heroic for people to walk out on those they disagree with.

And the people cheering these students on will not be there or care when these students later in life decide they don't need to listen to their supervisor at their job who disagrees with them, and they walk out on that.

As these students become unemployable, all they will be left with is their massive student debt and a false sense of morality for refusing to listen to anyone they disagree with.

a reply to: kaylaluv

They are already very familiar with his ideas. This was not a discussion forum - it was a speech, which means the only way they could debate would be to shout out during his speech. You would think that was rude, wouldn't you?

Yes, it would have been rude. But this was not a policy speach, either. He never mentioned gays or passing laws. The commencement speech is an opportunity for successful people to address and applaud the graduates.

I am actually a little perturbed at a recent commencement address Trump gave for that reason. He spent far too much time talking about policy and not about the graduates. To Pence's credit, I did not hear much about political issues, but more about life in general and the possibilities that were now open to the graduates.

To everything, there is a proper time and place.

It wasn't about Pence; it was all about the graduates. Thanks to the actions of some of the graduates, however, it is now all about Pence.

TheRedneck

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

But something was accomplished. They were true to their convictions and they let Pence know it. They even made the news, so that complete strangers like us are talking about it. And guess what, they still got their diploma. They get to go out in the world, get great jobs with those diplomas, and still stay true to their beliefs. Win/win as far as I'm concerned.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Thank you for the link. This thread is not the time nor place to discuss Pence's positions in detail, but I will say this: I found the information in the link you provided laughable if used as a excuse to abandon one's due rewards.

If you want to discuss this aspect in more detail, start a thread and PM me the link. I will happily engage.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Grambler

Again, you can cheer this on all you want. But when you wonder why people can have a civil discussion with people they disagree with anymore, remember you thought it was heroic for people to walk out on those they disagree with.

Please explain how they could have had a civil discussion with Pence if this was a commencement address. They were meant to be a captive audience, until they decided not to be captive. Good for them.

And the people cheering these students on will not be there or care when these students later in life decide they don't need to listen to their supervisor at their job who disagrees with them, and they walk out on that.

As these students become unemployable, all they will be left with is their massive student debt and a false sense of morality for refusing to listen to anyone they disagree with.

Now who's giving laughable comparisons?

A positive look at this might be that the students didn't try to silence Pence.

They did choose to leave instead.

Perhaps other, more disruptive, violent people could learn from this.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Is that an accomplishment?

Since when does being true and confident in your convictions mean walking away from your differences entirely? If they were really true and confident in their convictions they would stand in the face of their differences and not let it effect/affect them. That's called real strength.

Instead they wanted to send a message, but what was their message?

I disagree with you so instead I'll just walk out and not give you the time of day?

Seems like a pretty weak way to show strength to me.

When I see these things happen, I can't help but see anything but selfish, entitled, egotistical narcissist's.

I mean did they not know ahead of time pence was speaking? So they decided to go through with the entire ceremony up until pence took the stage just so they could walk out?

How noble.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Had it been Hillary or Kaine speaking, I doubt there would have been a walkout. Plenty of disgust, yes, but not a walkout.

TheRedneck

You'd think if they hate the bloke that much, they'd hang around to hear what he has to say, maybe take him to task on issues he raises.

Clearly, they are protesting all things Trump because CNN & Madcow have given them new found 'feelings' about someone who 12 months ago didn't even register on anyone radar - some folks are extremely bitter in defeat to the point of embarrassing themselves with incoherent reasoning.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Grambler

Again, you can cheer this on all you want. But when you wonder why people can have a civil discussion with people they disagree with anymore, remember you thought it was heroic for people to walk out on those they disagree with.

Please explain how they could have had a civil discussion with Pence if this was a commencement address. They were meant to be a captive audience, until they decided not to be captive. Good for them.

Again this is another example of why what you are cheering is actually the break down of civil discussion.

This was not meant to be a chance for them to have a discussion with Pence. This may be hard for you to believe, but the whole world does not revolve around you (or one specific person). Sometimes when someone is invited to speak, you are asked to listen.

Your claims that they didn't have a chance to disagree with them again shows an entitled mentality, that while I agree they have the right to have will not serve them well in the future.

Its just funny watching you make these arguments, and yet you will be baffled when people you disagree with start refuse to listen to any anyone who has a slight disagreement with them.

Now who's giving laughable comparisons?

Would you rather I just called all of the students Hitler like you did with Pence?

a reply to: kaylaluv

But something was accomplished.

Yes, it was.

• Across the country, successful people are now thinking "I hope I don't get asked to speak at Notre Dame. I'd hate to turn them down."
  
• Employers are looking at this and thinking "Did any of these spoiled children apply to my comoany?"
  
• We are talking about Mike Pence, not about the graduates and their awesome achievement.
  
• Average people are thinking "These Millennial are getting crazier by the minute. They don't have any respect even for themselves."
  
• The graduates have made a decision that will likely become a regret later in life and is irreversible.

Not exactly what I would consider positive accomplishments, but accomplishments all the same.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: eNumbra

Who said they couldn't exercise their right to walk out? They could, and they did.

But by doing so and calling the thing they abandoned "sacred," they demonstrated they hold nothing truly sacred. They demonstrated that they will leave if anyone they disagree with shows up.

I wonder... if Pence simply toured California, how much would the population of the state decline?

TheRedneck

So you'd be applauding them then, had they stayed and protested, rather than walked out in protest?

They realized that pence was already there, that nothing they could do at that point could undo that or would be appropriate for the venue so the left because they felt having someone they wholly disagreed with speak would taint the function for them.


Who #ing cares? Why are you adding to the endless division of this country by railing against the most peaceful act of protest this country has seen in weeks. Everyone complains that the left aren't really peaceful and that they're really quite extreme and violent and then you crticize them when they're not.
Get off your damn ideological soapbox and define a standard with which people you disagree with can behave so as not to offend your delicate conservative sensibilities.

a reply to: Grambler

Oh, so first you say that we need civil discussion, and right after that you say they should have just sat there and kept quiet. How is that promoting civil discussion? That is promoting sheep. You want us to be sheep?

What these students did was speak their minds without disruption or violence. They allowed Pence to speak as well. Both got to "speak". That sounds pretty civil to me.

a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Of course they knew Pence was coming. They planned the protest. They planned it in such a way that Pence and everyone else would know their convictions, yet they didn't take the commencement away from anyone else. Brilliant, I'd say. I'd be very proud of my kid if he or she was one of those students. You can raise your kids to be quiet sheep if you want, or you can raise them to be violent and disruptive- that's certainly your right. I'll raise my kid to peacefully speak their mind in a way that doesn't disrupt everyone else.

originally posted by: eNumbra

Why are you adding to the endless division of this country by railing against the most peaceful act of protest this country has seen in weeks. Everyone complains that the left aren't really peaceful and that they're really quite extreme and violent and then you crticize them when they're not.

Exactly. It's just another thinly veiled partisan thread. "The left is always wrong."

a reply to: kaylaluv

1. "We as students today stood in a solidarity in the face of our differences. We did not allow anything or anyone ruin the ceremony and the celebration of our hard work. We stood by one another despite disagreeing with him to set an example and hopefully a precedent that we can and will stand up for what we believe in. We will not only tolerate our differences but we will never allow them to effect us"

2. "Today we planned ahead of time to walk out on our speaker. We will not tolerate him and refuse to give him the time of day. We are standing up with our convictions"

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Grambler

Oh, so first you say that we need civil discussion, and right after that you say they should have just sat there and kept quiet. How is that promoting civil discussion? That is promoting sheep. You want us to be sheep?

What these students did was speak their minds without disruption or violence. They allowed Pence to speak as well. Both got to "speak". That sounds pretty civil to me.

The fact that you find the idea of listening to people you disagree with to making you a sheep is very telling.

Again, I said the students could have been far worse in their protest, I am merely pointing out that refusing to listen to someone you disagree with (or comparing them to Hitler as you have done) is a major problem with our country today.

a reply to: eNumbra

So you'd be applauding them then, had they stayed and protested, rather than walked out in protest?

The proper course of action would be to sit through the speech, then speak out if anything disagreeable to them had been said. As has been pointed out, this was not even a political speech; it was Pence honoring them for their achievement.

They realized that pence was already there...

They knew who would be speaking weeks in advance. Pence didn't just show up out of the blue. Commencement is a highly-choreographed event.

Why are you adding to the endless division of this country by railing against the most peaceful act of protest this country has seen in weeks.

Pointing out inappropriateness and a lack of understanding reality is 'railing'?

You know, I go all the way back to Nixon. Every moment in time since then, and I suspect for quite a time before that, has been filled with political controversy. I'm sure I will be able to make the same statement the second before I assume room temperature. Yet, how many times have we heard of commencements being walked out of before recent times?

None I can remember.

You say they walked out to protest Pence, right? How, may I ask, does one protest a person? A protest used to come with a set of demands for remedy... the Civil Rights protests demanded desegregation, equal rights, etc. They won by getting those demands met. Women's Suffrage protested for the right of women to vote. Women can vote; they won.

So when someone protests Pence, what is their demand? That he cease to exist? As in be executed? That he be removed from office, invalidating the entire election process?

I have no problem with protesting a policy. The goal is obviously to stop implementation of the policy. But how in the blue blazes does one protest a person? That makes as much sense as smelling the color yellow.

TheRedneck