Burn the House to Kill a Fly - Notre Dame grads don't know the meaning of Sacred

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Deaf Alien

Umm... go back and read my OP.

TheRedneck

Yes I did. You think they are being disrespectful and should not protest but just sit and be quiet and grin and bear it and listen to a man that actively try to deny rights to minorities.
I know you support their right to free speech and protest. Or at least I hope so.

But you told me that was not the point.

Make up your mind.

Um he want to force his morality on them. He wants them to shut up and sit. That to me suggests that he doesn't want them to exercise their right to free speech and protest.

Who does??

?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
This is becoming dangerously close to being a mud-pit thread. I don't want this thread to be suspended or closed. This thread has been good so far despite the mod closing it two times temporarily.

My advice then is if you want to quote someone then take the time to actually quote them instead of misrepresenting what they say to fit your little narrative.

originally posted by: The3murph

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
This is becoming dangerously close to being a mud-pit thread. I don't want this thread to be suspended or closed. This thread has been good so far despite the mod closing it two times temporarily.

My advice then is if you want to quote someone then take the time to actually quote them instead of misrepresenting what they say to fit your little narrative.

There seems to be a communication breakdown.
I never ever said that you don't think they have free speech right.
Seriously are you drunk?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Deaf Alien

Umm... go back and read my OP.

TheRedneck

Yes I did. You think they are being disrespectful and should not protest but just sit and be quiet and grin and bear it and listen to a man that actively try to deny rights to minorities.
I know you support their right to free speech and protest. Or at least I hope so.

But you told me that was not the point.

Make up your mind.

Um he want to force his morality on them. He wants them to shut up and sit. That to me suggests that he doesn't want them to exercise their right to free speech and protest.

Who does??

?

Um he wants to force his morality on them. He wants them to shut up and sit. That to me suggests that he doesn't want them to exercise their right to free speech and protest.

Who is he??

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Then you agree that the disrespect is the point of the thread, along with the obvious ignorance of the definition of the word "sacred."

And yes, I support their right to protest. I just think they were grossly inappropriate in their choice of venue. Pence was not there to talk about gays or minorities... he was there to congratulate them.

I just remembered some years ago there was a debate on whether telling someone to "have a nice day" was insensitive... this reminds me of that. Should anyone ever jump my case for telling them to have a nice day, I'm pretty sure my response will be along the lines of:

"Please forgive me; I did not intend to offend. May the remainder of your day be filled with indescribable agony and may everything you hold dear be taken from you and destroyed in front of your face as you weep uncontrollably."

I have little stomach for disrespect. Those who cannot show respect to others are no better than livestock, IMO.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Deaf Alien

Umm... go back and read my OP.

TheRedneck

Yes I did. You think they are being disrespectful and should not protest but just sit and be quiet and grin and bear it and listen to a man that actively try to deny rights to minorities.
I know you support their right to free speech and protest. Or at least I hope so.

But you told me that was not the point.

Make up your mind.

Um he want to force his morality on them. He wants them to shut up and sit. That to me suggests that he doesn't want them to exercise their right to free speech and protest.

Who does??

?

Um he wants to force his morality on them. He wants them to shut up and sit. That to me suggests that he doesn't want them to exercise their right to free speech and protest.

Who is he??

The OP? Not to mention several posters here in this thread?

Well I see Trump got himself a pretty good insurance policy against any liberal SJW assassins.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Deaf Alien

Umm... go back and read my OP.

TheRedneck

Yes I did. You think they are being disrespectful and should not protest but just sit and be quiet and grin and bear it and listen to a man that actively try to deny rights to minorities.
I know you support their right to free speech and protest. Or at least I hope so.

But you told me that was not the point.

Make up your mind.

Um he want to force his morality on them. He wants them to shut up and sit. That to me suggests that he doesn't want them to exercise their right to free speech and protest.

Who does??

?

Um he wants to force his morality on them. He wants them to shut up and sit. That to me suggests that he doesn't want them to exercise their right to free speech and protest.

Who is he??

The OP? Not to mention several posters here in this thread?

Then I suggest you read it again.

a reply to: TheRedneck

It just depends on how we see it. Some see it as being very disrespectful. Others think it's "heroic". That's why I brought up an hypothetical. It does seem a little disrespectful to me. My parents would probably spank my butt for it if I did that. LOL. But I understand why they did this. Even if I wouldn't walk out, it would be hard for me to stomach listening to him after knowing what he did.

a reply to: thesaneone

What does disrespectful mean?

I asked before because it seems to be rather subjective and while the OP and others see walking out as disrespectful others might not.

If the degree of respect or lack thereof of an action is in the eye of the beholder then it becomes a worthless metric.

ETA: Not only that but I personally don't see it as disrespectful. I can see why the OP and you might see it that way but that isn't the same.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TheRedneck

It just depends on how we see it. Some see it as being very disrespectful. Others think it's "heroic". That's why I brought up an hypothetical. It does seem a little disrespectful to me. My parents would probably spank my butt for it if I did that. LOL. But I understand why they did this. Even if I wouldn't walk out, it would be hard for me to stomach listening to him after knowing what he did.

Heroic is Audie Murphy or Sgt. Jasper. What these kids did was the act of petulant children.

a reply to: The3murph

Hyperbole much?

I don't think it is either.

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and, as always:

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a reply to: Deaf Alien

I can't see it any way other than disrespect, to be honest. Not just to Pence... he's a big boy and has had much much worse. But toward the faculty who helped then succeed? Toward the parents who sacrificed? Toward their fellow students who just want to experience what they have earned? No, that's just wrong... every bit as wrong as Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals.

I was lucky; I'll admit that. I like most of what Jeff Sessions says (as long as he doesn't get on the subject of drugs). He didn't mention policy, of course... he properly gave a speech honoring us and offering life advice. But the thing is, I really couldn't hear every word... the Engineering College was last in line, alphabetical and my last name is way up on that list, and I can't hear so goodly anymore. I tried to hear him, but had it been, say, Obama, I would have just sat politely and ignored him. That, out of respect for my friends sitting with me, my family and non-grad friends watching, and the faculty. I owe that respect to them, as these students owed respect to their faculty. I owe Obama nothing, just these students owed Pence nothing.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I wouldn't have showed if it were obama or clinton speaking, but that's because I didn't care about my graduation from college (full disclosure, I didn't go to my commencement). I didn't view it as a sacred event, nor a treasured memory. Mostly it was a waste of time, just another notch on the belt that no one gives a damn about.

I think this is a fundamental difference between people over 40 and people under 40. The over 40's still view college as a pinnacle. An achievement that nearly guaranteed you some level of success in life. The under 40's view it as a pathetic necessity. Unless you're going into a science (chemistry, physics, math, etc), law or medicine a degree only keeps you on the playing field.

TL;DR
I would have been going for the speakers, not for myself.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I just want to thank you for this thread and our discussion. It has been great so far. I know we all have been "passionate" from time to time. But at least it helped us to see each other's point of views. I hope I have shown you my point of view and why I see it that way.
Thanks.

a reply to: Dfairlite

I will admit I have held a somewhat unusual view of college throughout my latest studies. In the 1980s, it was all about learning enough to advance in my career (draftsman/designer). This last foray, my attitude has changed. It's not about a job; it's all about what I can do.

Commencement is a milestone, the fulfillment of a goal. In 2012, I walked to relieve my AAS in Computer Science... just because friends said I should. That degree was in hopes of a job; nothing more. In 2013, though, I wanted to walk for my AS in Engineering... that was the culmination of what I had started 30 years prior. In 2016, I wanted to walk to receive my BSEE. That was a major goal fulfilled. Either next spring or 2019 (depending on life), I plan on walking to receive my MSEE, another major goal. Life permitting, I plan on walking in the fancy robes 3 years later for my PhD... the culmination of my academic career.

So for me, it's important to walk. It's the changing from one completed goal to the next. My mother got to see her son receive a degree from the big university in 2016, something that thrilled her. That was important to me.

The piece of paper? It has a place of honor, framed over my electronics desk in my shop, right next to my award plaque. Not for show... but as a reminder when I have been trying to solve a problem that seems unsolvable. I can glance up and see proof that yes, I can do this. Because I did that.

A disruption like the one we're discussing at my commencement would have been disgusting for me. I would probably have given every one a piece of my mind afterward, to the point of risking the night in the slammer. These protesters can cry about how a speaker 'tainted' their 'sacred' commencement by existing, but they destroyed the event for others who really did consider it sacred enough to try and not disrupt it.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
These protesters can cry about how a speaker 'tainted' their 'sacred' commencement by existing, but they destroyed the event for others who really did consider it sacred enough to try and not disrupt it.

It's the same thing. You would have stooped to their level with the only defense being, "well, they did it first".

a reply to: Deaf Alien

You're very welcome. And passion, properly expressed, is a good thing. We all should be passionate about our beliefs.

I really don't think we are very far apart on this, save for comprehension of the event itself. My major gripe is not that people protest, but that lately they seem to do so in direct, overt hope of offending as many people as possible. I don't understand that, how offending those whose support is needed will serve to garner that support.

But, I'm just a redneck... what do I know?

TheRedneck

a reply to: daskakik

Yes, I would have been in the wrong. Agreed.

But I would at least wait until afterwards out of respect for others.

TheRedneck