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Single Payer System Would (At Least) Double New York State Budget

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posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:34 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

That's not my number that's the liberal UMASS econ professor's math.
Here's a link to his analysis. link




posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:36 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Hospitals are so out of control that they lose money on 55% of the people they treat. llink

Profitable hospitals are tax-exempt non-profits lol.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:39 AM
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a reply to: Charlyboy

This is the inconvenient truth that everyone wishes wasn't a truth. But it is. Your life has a $ value attached for it. You are not an unlimited worth being ANYWHERE in this world. Once you can accept that, life makes a lot more sense.


edit on 22-5-2017 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:42 AM
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I can tell you what the solution ISN'T -
More insurance!

Car insurance is a gamble, you pay in regularly to have them pay out IF there's a problem.

When you make it mandatory (like it is in my state) it's not insurance anymore, it's protection money. Don't pay it, they take away your license.

Health insurance for everyone only makes it so hospitals can charge twice as much, and assume that the insurance will pay half. When they don't, you get stuck with the bill.
Out of control costs are the problem. Stealing more money in taxes to provide relief when the bill comes doesn't help the people, it helps the insurance companies and hospitals.

Ban all insurance, watch healthcare costs come to a reasonable price point again within weeks.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:45 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

lol how're those govt student loans working out? That sure lowered tuition prices right?



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:55 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: dfnj2015

That's not my number that's the liberal UMASS econ professor's math.
Here's a link to his analysis. link


There's the problem right there in the first paragraph. Having a single payer system would not double the cost. Providing universal healthcare would double the cost. We do not provide universal healthcare now. That's a pretty big difference.

You have to compare apples to apples if you are going to say a single payer system would double costs. The title of your thread should be "Proposed Universal Healthcare Would Double New York State Budget". It has nothing to do with single payer.



edit on 22-5-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: dfnj2015

Hospitals are so out of control that they lose money on 55% of the people they treat. llink

Profitable hospitals are tax-exempt non-profits lol.


How is that other countries can provide healthcare and we can't? Do foreigners have a different anatomy than us?



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:59 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Well, technically this is both single payer and universal.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 06:59 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

They have much different habits.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:00 AM
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a reply to: Throes

Bull#!
1) We had a group come set up shop at my Health Club two weeks ago. They did free tests for possible bone marrow donations. It costs a few bucks a person to perform the test.
2) insurance companies do not pay more than cash payers ever, they pay many many times less because of there leverage. The government programs pay many times less than the insurance companies because they have even more leverage.

This is why many health care facilities and hospitals around the country are going under.
edit on 22-5-2017 by KEACHI because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:01 AM
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originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: dfnj2015

lol how're those govt student loans working out? That sure lowered tuition prices right?


The government ones are fine. The private ones are full of corruption. There is no difference between public and private corruption. Why is one type of bureaucracy better than the other?

Besides, we should raise taxes on the billionaires so the students don't have any debt. I hear the wealthy complain about taxes all the time. But how bad can it be if wealth inequality is at all time highs and only gets worse every year. Eff em. Raise taxes and give our students more opportunity to provide a much higher tax base for military spending.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:04 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I know everyone think Micheal Moore is a raging Marxist, but if you watch this film it really hurts to see how good other people have it:




posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

There are literally 540 billionaires in the USA. The entirety of their net worth's combined would barely cover the outstanding student debt.

But why not rob the few to serve the many, bernie? But wait, if we did that they'd be poor then we'd have to do something to help them, like rob some more billionaires! Oh wait, we already robbed all of them...
edit on 22-5-2017 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:08 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

I lived in Germany for years, dealt with universal single payer care. I don't envy them at all. German taxes are insanity about 60% of your pay goes to taxes.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015


The CEOs who own the healthcare insurance companies also own the hospitals. The amount hospitals charge has nothing to do with how you administrate the insurance plans. The hospitals charge whatever they want and the insurance companies raise healthcare taxes by 20% every year.


some may have some some stock in the hospitals, but i knew the CEO at the hospital where my mother use to work and i can tell you that it's a money game on both the hospitals and insurance companies sides.

for example,

my mother went to the ER because she was hurting. turns out she had a case of kidney stones and for some reason they admitted her right then. the hospital gotten a new Lithotripsy (ESWL) machine not to long before that, and they told her what they were gonna do. she wound up there for 4 days.

what they did was instead of getting authorization from the insurance company, they went ahead and did the Lithotripsy(ESWL)machine, because they knew if they would have submitted the request for authorization, the insurance company would have said no to try drugs first, that dissolve the stones, instead of the (ESWL).

the bill for everything of that four day stay came to $120,489 and change, they at first told my mother to wait and they would bill here for the co pay, the bill came and they told her that her final cost for her co pay was going to be $1900. she paid it.

turns out blue cross wouldn't pay for it because they didn't get authorization. the hospital kept on trying to get my mother to call the insurance company and complain and lie for them about the way it took place. then they decided that they wanted her to pay for it, she got a lawyer that showed them her bill that said final cost and told them that if they didn't stop harassing her that he would bring suit.

they only got $1900, and about six months later she was fired.

so your little explanation as far as i'm concerned is bs. and i know others that have run into similar situations.



edit on 22-5-2017 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: dfnj2015

There are literally 540 billionaires in the USA. The entirety of their net worth's combined would barely cover the outstanding student debt.

But why not rob the few to serve the many, bernie? But wait, if we did that they'd be poor then we'd have to do something to help them, like rob some more billionaires! Oh wait, we already robbed all of them...


Why not do nothing and let the cartels and monopolies rob everyone blind at the company store. Either way, one is not much better than the other.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:21 AM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So how to explain the 20% increase in premiums every year and people pay more and more healthcare taxes ?

It's effing cartel and you are brain washed or something that government cannot solve this problem. So if the government doesn't step in what are you going to do when healthcare costs 100% of everyone's take home pay? It's pretty close now. How do other countries do it for so much less. I'm sorry, what is your solution? Do nothing?



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:23 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: dfnj2015

I lived in Germany for years, dealt with universal single payer care. I don't envy them at all. German taxes are insanity about 60% of your pay goes to taxes.


People in this country are math illiterate and brainwashed to think the government can't solve anything. It doesn't matter what you pay in taxes. What does matter is the purchasing power of your take home pay.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: dfnj2015

Well, technically this is both single payer and universal.


Technically? No literally you are not comparing apples to apples. You are saying single payer cost double. It does not. Single payer plus universal cost more I agree. But that is not what the thread title is implying.



posted on May, 22 2017 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

The hospitals now over-charge paying patients, (either insured on self-pay) to make up for the services they write off in treating the uninsured.

Can we expect that they will drastically slash their prices once the state pays the bills?

I doubt it, at least, not without strict controls being in place being in place and the standard controls over Medicare against fraud are laughable.

Let's look around the world, find the very best system for medical treatment and controls and copy it.



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