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Banning assault weapons again.

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posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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With all the posturing and rhetoric from all sides, few seem willing to discuss what effect (if any) a renewed assault weapons ban will have on crime rates.

My bet would be on nil.

Most gun crimes committed in this country are committed with illegally purchased handguns. There are so many guns out there in circulation in the underground economy that gun control measures have little or no effect on the ability of criminals to get guns. They only succeed in preventing law-abiding citizens from getting them.

Aside from "guns are bad, mmmmkay!" posturing, can anyone offer any positive reasons why an "assault weapons" ban is necessary or even useful?




posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Xmotex,

Where do the illegally held guns in the US come from?

I will tell you:

1) Stolen from the legal owners
2) Stolen directlty from suppliers/manufacturers.

By banning legal gun ownership you reduce the supply on both counts.

All you then have to worry about is smuggling and with the Homeland Security goons on the case I am sure the problem will fade in a few years.

Cheers

BHR



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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Sounds like a plan. Let's vote ourselves a police state, shall we?

Cars are obviously worth the deaths they cause because of the freedom they provide.

Same with guns. Every time a kid plays with a gun stupidly is a tragedy, but on the whole I'd rather have a few cases of that every year than have ten times that number in murders and armed robberies.

That's why you teach the kids gun safety. All the "don't touch" in the world isn't going to be entirely effective because in the end:

1. A gun is useless for emergency home/self defense if it's unloaded and/or locked up.

2. The kid is only going to get taller and smarter as time goes on, and eventually it's going to be a better idea to teach him how to use the gun safely than continue trying to keep them out of his reach at all times.

[edit on 4/7/2005 by BeefotronX]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 02:08 AM
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Answer his question...

Where do "illegal' weapons originate?



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 02:44 AM
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Black Flag,

I have asked this question before of pro-gun people and not one has ever had an answer.

It is my wish that they would just come out and admit the truth that they like the feeling of power they get from owning a gun. It makes them feel better about themself.

To quote a great man "if you want to feel better about yourself, may I suggest a Fruit Cup, maybe even some situps"

Cheers

BHR



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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Illegal weapons originate first by creating legislation that makes previously legal weapons illegal, and illegal weapons get onto the streets simply by failing to be collected. You can't stop this , you can only reduce it by having more and more fascist measures enacted to make sure everything is seized.

Apart from that, the weapons are stolen from anyone who is allowed to have the weapons legally. A SWAT van might be stolen one day, found the next morning in a ditch, empty, and the weapons are on the black market. You cannot stop this, you can only reduce it by having more expensive security devices on all police property.

Another venue is that the manufacturers themselves might be selling on the black market for some extra cash -- or, if not the actual manufacturers, employees thereof. You can't stop this, you can only reduce it by making sure the manufacturers and employees are getting paid enough, and taking measures to keep libertarians from being employed at weapon manufacturing facilities.

And then of course, there are the people who will manufacture guns in their garages if they can't purchase one. You can't stop this, you can only reduce it by putting controls on all the ingredients and equipment that are used to make firearms. Metal tubing, springs, nitric acid, lathes, all that stuff.

Let it be recorded that your question has been answered; I have had experiences before in which people repeat questions and pretend they've never been answered.

I don't even own a gun yet, as I'm currently living on the premises of a university. Obviously, though, that's the only thing stopping me right now.

[edit on 4/8/2005 by BeefotronX]

[edit on 4/8/2005 by BeefotronX]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:25 PM
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Personally, I think the ban on any personal weapon is a violation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The REASON that right is there is to prevent the government from ruling by force instead of representation. By outlawing such weapons, they are not keeping within the spirit of the law.

That said, I'd think that someone should have to have quite a few hurdles to go through to have such weapons legally, but eliminating the option imho is a violation of our rights.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Guns are not illegal. There is no legal prohibition for the existance of any guns.

What is illegal is for certain people in certain places to posess guns. Therefore, gun posession only becomes illegal by the act of possession of said gun by certain individuals in certain places, where said prohibition is effective.

By this logic, it takes a pre-existing criminal act for the state of illegal gun ownership to exist.

Get it into your heads: Guns are not illegal. Bad people possessing and misusing guns is illegal.

Repeat the mantra: Gun are not evil and don't kill people. People are evil and kill other people.

You cannot outlaw guns and expect the supply to bad people to be deminished. As you can see by the alleged war of drugs - the laws of supply and demand will easily overcome any roadblocks set up by legislation and law.

You cannot "un-ring" a bell, people. The genie will not go back into the bottle.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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And then of course, there are the people who will manufacture guns in their garages if they can't purchase one. You can't stop this, you can only reduce it by putting controls on all the ingredients and equipment that are used to make firearms. Metal tubing, springs, nitric acid, lathes, all that stuff.


Don't forget to regulate rolled up magazines and matches.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Black Flag,

I have asked this question before of pro-gun people and not one has ever had an answer.

It is my wish that they would just come out and admit the truth that they like the feeling of power they get from owning a gun. It makes them feel better about themself.

To quote a great man "if you want to feel better about yourself, may I suggest a Fruit Cup, maybe even some situps"

Cheers

BHR

Not true, all though of course with ANYTHING certain people have certain things for power, I myself just like guns, its my hobby, it has nothing to do with power.

And i ask this to all anti-gun people,

Why are you so afraid of guns?
Have you ever been shot?
Have you ever had a gun pointed at your head?
Have you ever been a victim of a gun crime?




[edit on 8-4-2005 by C0le]



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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Well, yes, there are all sorts of things you can use to make a cannon-type device.


The point is that any totalitarian who tries to disarm the population will find it to be exceedingly difficult. History shows what happens when we try to prohibit alcohol, the same will happen if we try to prohibit guns.


You can't win by trying to keep guns out of the wrong hands. You can't reach the bad guys like that without plowing over the rights of responsible people.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 12:40 AM
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What is so difficult about the question?

How do criminals get their hands on guns?

Simple question.

Simple answer.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:20 AM
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Originally posted by Black Flag
What is so difficult about the question?

How do criminals get their hands on guns?

Simple question.

Simple answer.



Theif's



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:29 AM
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Exactly.

"Good guns" owned by "good citizens" can end up in "Bad citizens" hands.

The more guns that are out there, legal or not, the more guns that may end up with bad guys.

Supply and Demand.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 03:45 AM
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So basicly your saying, you want to take away My right to own a firearm, Because a theif steals my weapon?

I didnt ask the theif to steal it, I didnt invite the theif into my house.

why do you want to punish Me for someone elses Crime?

We could ban alot of things with that mentality..



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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You said that, I didnt.

All I said was that the more weapons in circulation, the more weapons end up in the wrong hands.



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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Yes, but criminals are notorious for having no regard for the law. So, obviously, any sort of legislation will be almost entirely ineffective at disarming criminals or keeping 'assault' weapons out of the hands of felons, so it's not really worth it to bother with that front. It doesn't work, it's not feasible, it does not accomplish anything toward increasing safety.
The way to keep criminals from making too much use of 'assault' weapons is to put more firepower on the side of the law. And that means making sure the law-abiding population is not barred from having the same level of armament as the criminals.



posted on Apr, 10 2005 @ 12:52 AM
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If "illegal" weapons come from a supply of "legal" weapons, then the supply of both are tied together.

Less assault weapons in circulation equals less guns in the hands of the dangerous.

That is a simple fact.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 02:16 AM
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BeefotronX,

"Cars are obviously worth the deaths they cause because of the freedom they provide. "

I missed this onel earlier.

This always comes up in this topic of discussion, Cars v Guns - Both kill people so should we ban both?

Now I know that is not what you haves said. However, you have linked the two in your post.

The difference between cars and guns is that guns are designed to kill whereas cars are not. In fact, every year cars are designed to higher and higher safety standards in the quest NOT to kill people.

Cheers

BHR



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by Black Flag
If "illegal" weapons come from a supply of "legal" weapons, then the supply of both are tied together.

Less assault weapons in circulation equals less guns in the hands of the dangerous.

That is a simple fact.


Less criminals on the streets, less crime.

Stop trying to cure the symptom, and cure the disease..




[edit on 11-4-2005 by C0le]



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