Banning assault weapons again.

Oh Wow, A Gun Control Thread! How Unusual.

This is a classic example of an issue that won't go away and won't be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

The push to ban “assault weapons” is much like the push to ban “cop-killer bullets”.

It's typical propaganda: create an evil euphemism and keep repeating it over and over until it is accepted as a gospel truth.

Eventually, we'll be told that we must ban “baby-killer bullets”.

It's the same old Big Lie I've been hearing for decades, and it always originates from the same old usual suspects -- all of them a pack of pathological liars, left-wing extremists and power-hungry wannabe tyrants trying to scare the public into breathlessly and thoughtlessly joining their dubious and discredited cause.

In this tiresome thread, which echoes the same tiresome debates, we see the same old point/counterpoint arguments I used wade through on BBS's in the '80s almost twenty years ago.

Plenty of boilerplate, very little news -- if any.

This is a classic flamebait topic and a quick way to rack up cheap thread points.

Here's my donation in pointing out the obvious, but it's about all I am willing to donate to the beating of this dead horse.

Originally posted by Majic
The push to ban “assault weapons” is much like the push to ban “cop-killer bullets”.

Assault weapons are hardly a ficticious item. Therefore I find a lot of your previous post to be based on what some detractors might call right wing neo-conservatism. Why do you fear the left so much? It doesn't even exist in your country in any viable form. Are you afraid of open debate? Of being challenged?

How easy is it to accquire ssault style weapons? How easy is it to get a license or permit for them? If any of these 'tyrannical' left wingers, as you call them, were serious about gun control they would be campaigning to reduce availability and licensing.

Personally if Left -wing tyranny is walikg down a street without having to be concerned about what weaponry others are carrying then I would find that preferrable to accidentally wandering into a gun-nut convention and being shot because my shirt is the wrong colour. Why aren't people screened more carefully and responsibly if gun control is such a persistant issue?

Originally posted by Halfofone
yeah and maybe macheties and baseball bats and butter knives and clenching your hand into a fist should be banned to

Don't forget the video games and music and movies that make us so violent

Maybe it's just my perception, but it seems to me a gun is somewhat more deadly than any of the other objects you mentioned.

I still think it's hilarious the pro-gun people insist on comparing knives and baseball bats to their "harmless toys".

Originally posted by Majic
Oh Wow, A Gun Control Thread! How Unusual.

This is a classic example of an issue that won't go away and won't be resolved to anyone's satisfaction.


In this tiresome thread, which echoes the same tiresome debates, we see the same old point/counterpoint arguments I used wade through on BBS's in the '80s almost twenty years ago.

Plenty of boilerplate, very little news -- if any.

This is a classic flamebait topic and a quick way to rack up cheap thread points.

Here's my donation in pointing out the obvious, but it's about all I am willing to donate to the beating of this dead horse.

You just proved your intelligence. You point out you think this is a flamebait topic yet you fell for it. Thanks for the points, you got me, that is why I started this post was just to get points so that I can do what with them? Go to the store and buy some food, maybe that new car that I always wanted.

You should keep your opinion to yourself about something that you have no clue as to what my motive is for starting this post.

Jakko, I think it is hilarious that people with less rights on this subject seem to be so anti-gun. Maybe you are just acting out as a child would when they do not get what they want.

By European standards, it's easy to get a gun legally in the Netherlands. The requirements are that you have to have been a member of a shooting club for a year, be 18 years or older, prove that you can handle firearms safely, have enough shots to your name and you obviously can't have a criminal record. The actual procedure for buying a gun is arcane and requires approval from the shooting club and the police. You must keep the gun in a safe in your home (so it's no use for self-defense), you're only allowed to transport it to and from the shooting club, and the police will come inspect your home at least once a year to check on how you're storing the gun. There are about 80,000 people with a gun license in the Netherlands.

Article

Interesting sentiments cryptorsa. Are there many other Americans who share you're views on this topic? Is the support of an armed populous coming from groups with similar intentions or are many supporters simply pursuing their own agenda? I have a basic level of mistrust for government which spawns for similar reasons as you have stated here (the corrupting influence of power and money) yet I have never felt that mistrust s deeply as to require a weapon to defend myself. Are there any specific personal reasons why you feel the need to be armed or are you just preparing for a forseeable contingency? I do not expect you to provide a detailed response to that last question if you feel uncomfortable in doing so but this topic has aroused my curiosity.

Yes there is a large part of the populous in america that share similar views to my own. I would have to say that there are groups that have there own aganda but you are going to have that with almost any subject. As far as my personal reasons go I have posted before within this post. I so not remember what page it is on but think is around page 10 or so.

America is still a young country with a short history compared to most European countries. Americans still remember the iron fist rule of England several hundred years ago. Maybe this is why the personal belief in individuals right to own firearms is so deeply rooted in our culture.

Originally posted by Black Flag
If the 2nd Amendment didnt not exist, what would the justification be?

Without the somewhat dubious protection of the Constitution, what argument would you use defend the poliferation of assualt rifles amongst the populace?

It is my belief that every man or woman has the right to defend themselves. In fact it is their individual duty to do so. The powerfull prey on the weak. Guns are equalizers. Guns are merely a tool like any other tool. Yes that tool can be abused and are abused.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Jakko, I think it is hilarious that people with less rights on this subject seem to be so anti-gun. Maybe you are just acting out as a child would when they do not get what they want.

Is that the best you come can up with?
After replies like this I can not do anything else but question your intelligence and wonder why you even bothered to get into the subject in the first place...

"People with less rights seem to be so anti gun"
How about "people with less rights are not shooting eachother at schools".
It is so ridiculously easy to get a gun in the USA, that incidents with depressed unhappy children at schools are hardly unpredictable.
But don't bann guns if you think the right to feel cool and play cowboy is more important than your childrens safety of course.

Let's just say I am happy I am on this side of the ocean.

[edit on 28-3-2005 by Jakko]

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Guns are merely a tool like any other tool. Yes that tool can be abused and are abused.

Don't you see what utter misunderstanding lies in your entire way of thinking?

Nuclear bombs are just equalizers too you know, they are just tools that can be abused. This doesn't mean it's ok for everyone to have them.

The whole left-right divide over gun control is a bogus dichotomy.

I am distinctly of the lefty persuasion, but I am as skeptical about gun control as any right-winger. Curtailing the rights of all law-abiding citizens in order to control the behavior of a few criminals (with little evidence it will actually have such an effect) is a distinctly authoritarian ploy, and not something the left, with it's emphasis on the civil liberties of the citizenry, should not be supporting.

I'd even go as far as to say that the embrace of gun control by the Democrats is the poison pill keeping them from winning elections, as especially in rural areas, gun control (or rather opposition to it) is a major issue among people who would otherwise be swing voters.

[edit on 28-3-2005 by xmotex]

Originally posted by Black Flag
If the 2nd Amendment didnt not exist, what would the justification be?

Without the somewhat dubious protection of the Constitution, what argument would you use defend the poliferation of assualt rifles amongst the populace?

Dubious protection of the Constitution?

The Document our entire country is built upon is "Dubious"?

THAT is why we need assualt rifles, to protect this "Dubious" Document from those who think like that

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Black Flag
If the 2nd Amendment didnt not exist, what would the justification be?

Without the somewhat dubious protection of the Constitution, what argument would you use defend the poliferation of assualt rifles amongst the populace?

Dubious protection of the Constitution?

The Document our entire country is built upon is "Dubious"?


Amen Amuk!

THAT is why we need assualt rifles, to protect this "Dubious" Document from those who think like that

I've gotten to where I don't like to get into these anti-gun discussions. Most fo the pro gun control people have stilted and often hysterical views of what gun ownership and "real" gun control entails. And it becomes extremely difficult to have intelligent discussions with them ... They love to try and belittle gun owners and make us seem like we're all psychotic, slobbering, maniacs.

But... I thunk, after reading a bit that I'd jump in and say that I'd like to give you an above and beyond, but I used them all already this month.

Is that the best you come can up with?

Jakko, I posted in a similar manner as you did to show you how childish your post was. I guess you did not get it. Why do you have to cut someone down to make your point? Grow up, be a man.

I see that in our day and age, the amendment that all citizens have "the right to bear arms" is out the window eh?

Another example of our once-great country falling into politically-correct hysteria.

-wD

You are right Jakko - there is historical evidence about the effectiveness of gun control and the safety it provides the people. Just look at what this charming fellow had to say:

'This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future.

Adolph Hitler, 1935

[sarcasm off now]

Bingo Amuk, our forefathers knew exactly what they were doing when they hashed out the Second Amendment. I hate to keep repeating the same old axiom that the liberal media douses with fear every time guns make primetime but here goes: Guns don't kill people. People kill People.


The Right to Bear Arms is ultimate. To Bear Arms is an ultimate responsibility.

Originally posted by JamesBlonde


How easy is it to accquire ssault style weapons?

A true assault weapon has the ability to become fully automatic with the flick of a lever. Law-abiding gun owners must go through intense background checks that usually take months to even be considered to own an automatic weapon. Then the cost is in the several thousands of dollars to purchase one. Just because a firearm looks like an assault weapon doesn't make it one.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Jakko, I posted in a similar manner as you did to show you how childish your post was. I guess you did not get it. Why do you have to cut someone down to make your point? Grow up, be a man.

The thing I posted actually made sense.
You tried to use the same "form" as I used, but in your case it made no sense whatsoever.

I did get what you were trying to say, you just used a very poor shape to put it in.
Besides that you were also plain wrong. Not all people in countries where people have "less rights" (to use your words) are against gun-ownership as it is done in the USA.

And to that other dude quoting hitler on me; whatever makes you feel happy...

It's kind of interesting to me that many of the vocal gun control in the United States people don't even live there.

Hey it's just an opinion...
I'm looking at it from a distance and I don't understand why you all like your guns so much.
It seems to me a lot americans don't understand that the "right to have guns" is not always a good thing.