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Europe should have never discarded its Christian identity

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posted on May, 14 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: skalla




And yet they created and traded beautiful and fine fabrics, which are widely known of. Wealthy Romans paid good money for them.

You'd probably best avoid discussing this time period


Right, that famous barbarian fur trade. Look how well that worked out.


Approach it with your Hannah Barbera level of knowledge by all means!




posted on May, 14 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver




Christianity literally opposed most of those scientists. Without that opposition, we would be much further along in our understanding of the universe. Christianity literally cannot exist in a world where scientific discovery is taken more seriously than fables and myth.


No you wouldn't. You'd still be worshipping sun and moon gods, sacrificing humans for higher crop yields. You'd still be in grass huts burning living widows with their deceased husbands



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: skalla




Approach it with your Hannah Barbera level of knowledge by all means!


Your insults are as meaningless as your self-proclaimed knowledge.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: firefromabove

What a bunch of nonsense. People all over the world are rejecting religion as each new generation comes into its own.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: RisenMessiah
a reply to: Bluesma

That's a rational excuse.... .....


Excuse? I don't even know what you are suggesting I am excusing.

To address the hypothesis, one must be clear on what the heck it is.

The base of it doesn't make sense .

These are the percentages of foriegn immigrants currently in European countries. It varies a lot. Some of these countries are traditionally Islamic already. Of the others, 76% of Europeans identify as Christians.

Germany and Italy are the leading largest Christian nations. Germany has the highest number of foriegn citizens in Europe with just over 4 million.

These countries have different languages and different cultures. Their situation in terms of Islamic immigration varies widely between them.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Woodcarver




huh? Pagan? I don't think you are using that term correctly. It basically means any religion that is not christianity. So yea?

while christianity was being spread throughout the world by threat of terrible death, there were still many competing ideologies, some of them commited child sacrifices, but christianity consumed the entire globe in blood. And still to this day teaches such nonsense as to have the majority of it's adherents completely deny science and known physical laws, so they can continue to draw the trillions of dollars that allows them this kind of control over the world of international politics. Why? Because people are scared and they don't want their team to lose.


Consumed the entire globe in blood? Complete nonsense. I think you've found a good bogeyman with which to blame the state of the world.
the middle east, Check

Northwest europe. Check

Africa. Check

South America. Check

North America. Check

Japan/Nihon. Check

India. Check

Russia. Check

China. Check

Well, maybe they didn't do as well in russia and china, but they tried and are still trying.

The only place christianity hasn't killed people and tried to replce culture is the arctic and antarctic. Thats only because when they got there, there was nobody to assimilate.


And they made those places better. Check.
By killing them until they decided to assimilate.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Woodcarver




Christianity literally opposed most of those scientists. Without that opposition, we would be much further along in our understanding of the universe. Christianity literally cannot exist in a world where scientific discovery is taken more seriously than fables and myth.


No you wouldn't. You'd still be worshipping sun and moon gods, sacrificing humans for higher crop yields. You'd still be in grass huts burning living widows with their deceased husbands
Isn't jesus a human sacrifice?



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm not seeing religion with the same mindset as you are, as all things in the right amount or quantity works just fine! I'm not exactly religious, but I do admire Buddhism in more than one way.

The points I enumerated are basic, you decided to scrutinize them, that's ok, but they do work even without being in a religious context. There is no denying that primordialy, religion was essential to human evolution, even with bloodbaths and inquisition and witch burning, the question now is, do we modern man still need it? and how? and in which way? You have Pope Francis who is not exactly your regular Pope, he accepts homosexuality, divorce, everything that a classical pope would oppose, does he want to bring the church to modern man?

There is a space for religion in our time and day, as long as it is well balanced, the days where Religion was as powerful as a King are over, same as Kings still exist but hold not significant power anymore. I'm ok with people needing religion in their lives as a guide for them as long as it doesn't interfere with my own life. Once I wanted to abolish every religion, now I dont, I accept the fact that some people do need it. To each is own.

Do you have a problem with every religion or just with Christianity?



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: Substracto
a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm not seeing religion with the same mindset as you are, as all things in the right amount or quantity works just fine! I'm not exactly religious, but I do admire Buddhism in more than one way.

The points I enumerated are basic, you decided to scrutinize them, that's ok, but they do work even without being in a religious context. There is no denying that primordialy, religion was essential to human evolution, even with bloodbaths and inquisition and witch burning, the question now is, do we modern man still need it? and how? and in which way? You have Pope Francis who is not exactly your regular Pope, he accepts homosexuality, divorce, everything that a classical pope would oppose, does he want to bring the church to modern man?

There is a space for religion in our time and day, as long as it is well balanced, the days where Religion was as powerful as a King are over, same as Kings still exist but hold not significant power anymore. I'm ok with people needing religion in their lives as a guide for them as long as it doesn't interfere with my own life. Once I wanted to abolish every religion, now I dont, I accept the fact that some people do need it. To each is own.

Do you have a problem with every religion or just with Christianity?
You would have to define religion in your context. I am reffering to any of the known religions. If you want to invent a perfect religion and use that for your argument, you will also need to define that before we can discuss how it will operate. If you are referring to a personal religion made up by each individual's preferences, then what is the point. How about we toss out fantasy think and concentrate on what we can all agree on and stop using unfounded beliefs as a means to guide us politically and morally?


To me, religion means fantasy think. Believing in something for no good reason. All of the other stuff is science.
edit on 14-5-2017 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver



By killing them until they decided to assimilate.


Right, and I guess they should atone for the sins of their fathers. The mongols killed millions under Genghis Kahn, that the mongols nowadays should throw away their identity and adopt one willy-nilly.



Isn't jesus a human sacrifice?


I thought he was executed, but then again I'm not a Christian.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Woodcarver



By killing them until they decided to assimilate.


Right, and I guess they should atone for the sins of their fathers. The mongols killed millions under Genghis Kahn, that the mongols nowadays should throw away their identity and adopt one willy-nilly.



Isn't jesus a human sacrifice?


I thought he was executed, but then again I'm not a Christian.
Who should atone for the sins of their fathers? I don't think all modern mongolians should be blamed for what Ghengis khan did. Modern mongolians don't have a choice to make in the matter. But christians Chooseto affiliate with an organization that has a really bad record of killing and assimilating thousands of cultures. Choicebeing the operative word here.

Christianity is still collecting trillions $$ which they use to spread their propoganda and continue to force people to assimilate. Mongols aren't still doing what Ghengis Khan was doing back then. There are 20 threads on here every day, made by christians who are actively trying to convince people that their version of god is the right one, and then they argue amongst themselves because they disagree.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Woodcarver



By killing them until they decided to assimilate.


Right, and I guess they should atone for the sins of their fathers. The mongols killed millions under Genghis Kahn, that the mongols nowadays should throw away their identity and adopt one willy-nilly.



Isn't jesus a human sacrifice?


I thought he was executed, but then again I'm not a Christian.
then why are you sticking up for them? I am guessing that you disagree with their doctrine? So you already think they are not good enough to join.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver




then why are you sticking up for them? I am guessing that you disagree with their doctrine? So you already think they are not good enough to join.


Because no one else will. You guys would rather spit on them and everything they've done.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

No, I dont want to invent a perfect religion, that's simply impossible, I only enumerated what I think its positive in religion when approached in a moderate way, and religion is not perceived the same way by every believer, some are fanatics, others are moderate and others approach it more superficially but I'm sure you know that.

Ok, fair enough.

To me, religion can coexist with science as long as people can decide which one to follow, I care more about what people want than to abolish and erase, even if it's considered fantasy. If people want to use fantasy to escape the shackles of a material and harsh world, then so be it, good for them.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Point me to where Christians are persecuting others and I will oppose them, but until then, it is they who are persecuted, and you're simply joining in.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Woodcarver

Point me to where Christians are persecuting others and I will oppose them, but until then, it is they who are persecuted, and you're simply joining in.

Uganda. Pat Robertson.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Woodcarver




then why are you sticking up for them? I am guessing that you disagree with their doctrine? So you already think they are not good enough to join.


Because no one else will. You guys would rather spit on them and everything they've done.


Wow, you take your quote, In Defence of Unpopular Causes to the extreme.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread call for the bloodshed of the religious. We don't need to. The future generations will phase this out so the majority can start thinking clearly without prebuilt (brainwashed) biases. If they turn to religion after careful study because it soothes something within their soul, good for them.

I see a lot of posters simply asking the question 'what if religion is a hindrance to the progress of the human race' . Why do so many people gnash their teeth at the mere hint of that question?



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: firefromabove

You're right. The fallacy of the christianiphobes is that everything the church did was evil. They say this while they enjoy healthcare, education, and judeo-Christian values. It's difficult for them to even recognize the effect of Christianity on Western Civilization, let alone applaud them for it. We can now say goodbye to Europe.


It took 1000 years or more for Christianity to stop being used as a tool to subjugate, divide and rule before any of those values had any decent effect.

I could go as far as give examples of how those who are supposed to be "insiding us" had very similar ideals that you claim are a product of judeo-christian values.

Yes I'm saying Islam has/had ideals such as education, charity, healthcare and compassion.

Me? I'm a phobe of nothing but ignorance and I find it ignorant that someone who I feel has a grasp on history would say that Christian ideals is the be all and end all of European culture and image. I have no doubt it's helped bring ideals but at the same time so has the human. Awareness can bring as much good as a religious outlook upon life.

400-500 years ago the church began to publicly research alternative theories with science instead of condemn and destroy them and it forced change upon itself... Historically we all changed.

Just like how scientists with Christianity in their mind got over the fact that some plants could be carnivorous (because God didn't make abominations out of plants did he?) people will eventually get over the fact that a human needn't have any religion to be a good person.

At the end of the day, it gets dark... It's all about survival. Just like how the Venus flytrap evolved to survive so will religion. Now I could say the flytrap has compassion because it allows smaller prey to escape, it doesn't mean it's truth though. On the other hand Christianity claims itself to be compassionate yet it's brought the darkest hue of blue upon humanity in its time.

Survival... Humans are more than capable of learning from one another and sharing with one another without religion. We crave humanity, it's how we work best being humans and all. No religion taught us that, it's something that is ongoing with millions of years in production.

To add:

Under Christianity Europeans plundered and destroyed God's Earth, our saving grace was finding the Americas of which for a long time we repeated our destructive cycle. Pagans and Americans believed in many of the ideals Christianity brought but admittedly tend to hold a much higher regard towards nature. Their becomes a point when survival is detrimental to the existence of others, I'm not saying Christianity is the reason for our destructive ways but it's certainly food for thought that such destruction came about under such a brilliant religion isn't it?

Being religious doesn't make you decent and being decent doesn't make you religious. I'll happily say goodbye to Europe, Britain and England for that matter if people become a bit more decent. Because I'm a human before any nationality or member of a religion. Religion stands on the shoulders of giants and claims to be tall, fact is humans gave religion that vantage point, we are very tall with or without them.
edit on 14-5-2017 by RAY1990 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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Here is a way to get it back Learn the identity of the SPEAR OF DESTINY
www.youtube.com...

See the first Humanic possession: a process whereby a man can possess any devil: see it done for the first time by its inventor.
www.youtube.com...

Learn about Hell first hand by transporting your room into Hell and back again: do watch end part so you do not end up lost.
www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: RAY1990

Very good points!


Humanism



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