Science and the Summer of Love... 2017 Style

Hi ATS!

This started early this morning with this idea for a thread. The Dalai Lama, quantum physics, duality, and spirituality, I did not see a problem. But never expect the straight path when dealing with quantum physics. Follow me down the rabbit hole…

In his opening speech, Hi Holiness said he only became aware of the relationship between Madhyamaka and quantum physics after he had a conversation with the late Raja Ramanna, an Indian nuclear physicist.

…

According to Madhyamaka thought, nothing has a fixed or permanent nature. Nagarjuna clarified this by positing two truths – conventional and ultimate truth. He said that it is possible to perceive things as really existing, which is the conventional truth, and at the same time recognizing that they do not have inherent existence, which is the ultimate truth.

The most glaring of this example of this Buddhist thought in physics is the wave-particle duality which states that fermions and bosons can exhibit the characteristics of both wave and particle but cannot be wholly reduced to either.

…

[W]hat Einstein and the physicists want to point out is that such contradictory thoughts can become complimentary with each other. In the same way, the Dalai Lama emphasized during his talk that people need to use spirituality and quantum physics to combat suffering and ignorance.

Universityherald.com, April 29, 2017 - Dalai Lama Says Reality Is A Marriage Between Quantum Physics And Spirituality



-continued-

...continued

Then there are a couple threads here I was reading up on and choosing wise words and kind approaches when I realized something. I had two stories up both concerning the mind, artificial intelligence, and the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle (quantum mechanics). I had the Uncertainty Principal up in a math equation to explain how simple the math really is when viewed as an equation.

Then three letters jumped out at me! One, an “L” being the first, the last is a “D” with the middle one being an “S.” Here at ATS, we are not allowed to talk about our personal experiences and the editor oh so kindly blanks out these “evil letters”! Here on out I am replacing those “evil letters” with “T&C-25” so you can understand what the h3ll I’m talking about.

I’ve placed this all in a separate thread so it can be closed, reviewed, killed without affecting the other threads.

First, this thread:

ATS, Sci & Tech: Scientists evade the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

I was going to quote a few choice items from the below article.

Cosmology.com - Quantum Tunneling, [T&C-25], Neuroscience, Doors of Perception.

The author does a nice historical review with a really great quote from Hoffman. What follows is a first-hand account of purchasing some Owsley (Yes, that guy from Jimi Hendrix’s lyrics, “Owsley can you see me now!”) Purple Haze and his experience in 1967. In the end, it is all wrapped in the science of quantum mechanics. He ties in quantum tunneling and T&C-25 into a very balanced, well thought out conclusion as a solution to the multiverse.

He mentions HUP on several occasions and I was going pick one I particularly liked.

These quotes are linked and are rather profound. They need to be read and known prior to reading the article above.

If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite.
-William Blake

There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.
- Aldous Huxley

(same)

-continued-

Next…

ATS, Sci & Tech: Big Data has us on a collision course with the Singularity.

To which I was going to counter with…

Sciencealert.com - Can [T&C-25] Microdosing Tip The Scales in a New Human Versus AI Battle?

(Yeah, I know it is sciencealert) It is more of announcement that somebody is crowd-funding a study.

Her plan is to recruit 20 participants who will be given low doses - either 10, 20, or 50 micrograms - of T&C-25, or a placebo, across four different occasions.

(same)

But I found this to be really interesting.

So people have begun experimenting recreationally with microdosing instead - usually taking less than around 20 micrograms of T&C-25 to get the brain-boosting benefits without the high (it's something of a fad in Silicon Valley right now).

Which in turn is a hyperlink to this story.

BusinessInsider.com - Scientists are about to find out how Silicon Valley's [T&C-25] habit really affects productivity.

Which also has the lady from the crowd-funding announcement. But they talk to some other Silicone Valley uh,… experimenters?… volunteers?... psychonauts?... hippies? Whatever label you choose.

The argument is that T&C-25 dose have an effect that does not occur without using it! Now it is going to be studied. T&C-25 keeps people creative and that is how they will always be in front of AI.

Quantum mechanics, spirituality, AI, and T&C-25. What a strange web has been woven for me today! It started so peacefully with His Holiness giving profound advice about science and spirituality. Then a white rabbit hole appeared...

Science and the Summer of Love… 2017 Style?

Remember, there is no such thing as coincidence.



--end transmission--

So this is more of an observation thread.

Wave-particle duality, Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, the Dalai Lama, even Einstein made an appearance!

It is like being a character in Robert Anton Wilson's novel Illuminatus!

The mind, observing a particle, then launching perception sideways... these things happen to me when I start getting into quantum mechanics in a meaningful manner. I am not really searching for anything then they all collide at once.

Universe has a sense of humor it seems!

I'll ask: Does this happen to anybody else when studying QM? Multiple synchronicities and/or high strangeness?

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Great post...this is old hat for me, partly because I once sat through an entire two-day conference on this subject with the Dalai Lama at Union Theological Seminary. I apologize for not responding more specifically, but just in case you're serious about the Buddhism-Quantum connection, and to make a long story short:

Yes Madhyamaka and Quantum Physics are related. But I would aver, that the philosophical dimension where the two -- that is to say, Buddhist philosophy and quantum physics -- converge most explicitly, with the greatest possible implications, is Dzogchen. Google that, or for the full story (including extensive learned references to David Bohm et. al. on the cutting edge of physics and philosophy of science), see the following two titles by the late, great Prof. Herbert V. Guenther:

From Reductionism to Creativity


Matrix of Mystery: Scientific and Humanistic Aspects of rDzogs-chen Thought

The reason Dzogchen is not invoked on the subject of quantum physics is that hardly anyone -- least of all the majority of trained scientists -- can really grasp its philosophical dimensions properly without also knowing Tibetan and being steeped in the traditions and practices thereof (with noteworthy exceptions such as Herbert V. Guenther and Steven Goodman of CIIS). Madhyamaka, on the other hand, is easy to understand.

The philosophical affinity goes much further than e.g., the philosophical paradoxes related to superposition, wave function and so on. The deepest affinity concerns entanglement and on that, Madhyamaka has little if anything to add. Dzogchen, on the other hand, has a mountain of hithertofore unsuspected relevance when it comes to the possibility and implications of quantum entanglement (not to mention how that relates to cosmology and the origins of the universe).

Read the above titles for further details.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Amazing what a nice chunky organic molecule, C20H25N3O, in such small numbers, can do. WTF. It does have something to do with the present topic. Glad you mentioned.

a reply to: Namdru

I saw the cover of the Matrix of Mystery and thought of the Nazca Lines! Similar enough to google "Nazca lines mandala". There are similarities but also differences. What a jump! Planck's constant to Tibetan mandala drawn on a desert in Peru (??).

Thank you for the links! I think! Here I am trying to get out of a rabbit hole to be put down another. LOL. I wish I was at home and could pick up my old Eastern Religions and Philosophy books. I might just do that this weekend if the weather is bad. Definitely read them when I can. And look out for the ones you linked.

As for that "chunky organic molecule" this is not the first time we crossed paths here on ATS! Usually in the strangest of places. Today was/is strange.

You need a sense of humor at times otherwise you walk around with your mouth agape for no reason!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Do you think particles are delusions because since we measure the existence of particles with a device that is only capable of discrete measurements we are missing the fact that reality is really just continuous waves of energy where every wave is connected and part of every other wave.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

You need a sense of humor at times otherwise you walk around with your mouth agape for no reason!

Exactly. Which is why I talk to myself. It reduces the drool time by about 50%!

This reminded me of Maria Sabina and how psychedelics were used for healing:

"And none of it, of course, had anything to do with the indigenous uses of the mushroom, whose purpose was to cure sick people by, among other things, making them vomit. And she adds: “Before Wasson nobody took the mushrooms only to find God. They were always taken for the sick to get well.”

Which is also what Albert Hoffman suggested:

Although Albert Hofmann, the Swiss chemist who first synthesised C20H25N3O in 1938, suggested that “very small doses” might one day be used as “a euphoriant or antidepressant”

“As long as there are different nationalities, there will be patriotism. This feeling must be eradicated from our hearts before permanent peace can be established. Its place must be filled by love of nature and scientific ideal. Science and discovery are the great forces which will lead to that consummation….The consequences of such an advance are incalculable. A new epoch in human history would be inaugurated and a colossal revolution in moral, social and other respects accomplished, innumerable causes of trouble would be removed, our lives profoundly modified for the better, and a new and firm foundation laid to all that makes for peace."

Or in the words of Wavy Gravy "We are all the same person trying to shake hands with our self."

a reply to: Michet

Perhaps there is a cosmic consciousness, a quantum continuum of consciousness, which contains all information, and that one need only a brain that can tune in and tap into select channels. Perhaps Mozart possessed a brain such as this.

(cosmology.com article)

Reminds of Hunter S. Thompson's words...

Five year later, six?, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark — that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

Which is part of the high strangeness of this thread! Are we going to see what happens with a fully activated consciousness meets science? Or is it like Hunter says, a wave of time that will never come again but one that you were there, that you lived through, whatever it meant...

What a time to be in the midst of it. And this time people are talking about it! Have you seen the threads here on ayahuasca? mushrooms? Uh, this stuff is finally getting attention as "medicinal" for treating depression and PTSD. I for one, welcome this research as nobody should suffer because some natural substance is labeled "against the law."

Maybe the feeling of oneness will actually take hold and transform society. *fingers crossed*

Because not everybody saw this wonderful thread that relies upon T&C-25 as a main plotline over in the literature forum: _9MOTHER9HORSE9EYES9: the mysterious tale terrifying Reddit.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Great question!

Everything can be described as a wave (or wave function). Even the entire universe is expanding which is a type of wave. Did you see the DNA and the wavefunction, thread? Pondering if the wave function is viewable via your DNA. Each living creature would see the world different!

Explains dark matter and dark energy as a wave we cannot see but can infer by how it interacts with the waves we can see.

It is a fun concept to think about in those moments when you can kick back and relax!

A five-day convention of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), its first in four years. Rather than rock stars, scientists from schools like Johns Hopkins and N.Y.U. were the main attraction, bringing evidence to the medical case for psychedelics like psilocybin (the active ingredient in magic mushrooms) to assuage end-of-life anxiety, to help deepen meditation practices, to search for the shared underpinnings of spiritual life, and — in a new study — to explore a possible treatment for severe depression.

So exactly why are we witnessing what many are calling a “renaissance” in psychedelic drugs now, when they’ve been around so long?

There are many theories, including that Big Pharma’s solutions to mental illness are not satisfactory to everyone; that the internet is helping to spread knowledge about the power and potential of these drugs; that ayahuasca — the tree-bark tea administered by shamans — has become so popular in certain enclaves in the United States that it’s helping revive interest in other psychedelics; or simply that baby boomers who discovered the wonders of T&C-25 in the ’60s are now facing death, and looking, again, for ways to get in touch with their spirituality.

NY Times, May 6, 2017 - Molly at the Marriott: Inside America’s Premier Psychedelics Conference.

There is some "tee-hee... let's laugh at the hippies" in the article but the nexus is that research, legitimate this time using CAT scans, PET cans, and other high tech that was not available in the '50's and 60's, is being conducted. This is not from the top down (The Health Care system) but from those demanding that they are helped. The Big Pharma (treat the symptoms, not the cause) obviously does not work.

All those substances placed under Schedule 1 (no medical benefit - Heroin. T&C-25. Ecstasy. Quaaludes. Peyote, Marijuana) were done so at a time when the White House did not like the Counter Culture (Nixon called Timothy Leary "the most dangerous man in America") and did it's best keep anything close to endorsing Hippies under its control. Funny that Nixon ended up on Laugh In when running for office since it was the biggest counterculture TV show at the time.

Change happens. MJ is slowly creeping out from the "it causes schizophrenia" to CBD being used to treat children with severe brain chemistry impairment to the other substances and their possible uses listed above now is time to actually help people instead of blinding following the "no medical benefit" bandwagon.

MAPS is a start but serious research needs to be done to show that an oil with absolutely no "trippy" effects is actual medicine and should be removed from Schedule 1 listing.

To learn how mushrooms naturally create psilocybin, the researchers sequenced the genomes of two of the main types of magic mushrooms—that allowed them to isolate the genes that were responsible for producing the enzymes that lead to the creation of psilocybin. Next, they engineered fungi and bacteria samples to confirm their initial findings and to learn of the order in which the synthesis took place. As it turned out, there were four enzymes involved in the process, but after more study, the researchers found that only three of them (PsiD, PsiK, and PsiM) were needed to make the chemical in the lab.

Using this information, the researchers developed a "one pot reaction" recipe for creating psilocybin on demand, utilizing the enzymes they had isolated. They then created samples of psilocybin in their lab—the first team ever to do so.

Their efforts may pave the way for commercial production of psilocybin as a pharmaceutical drug for use in treating brain ailments such as depression or anxiety, or even for smoking cessation.

medicalxpress.com - After a half-century of attempts, psilocybin has finally been synthesized in the lab.

We finally did it! Ah, damn you! G* damn you all to Hell!

That is my reaction. I am fearful this means that some medical company will now start making medicine and charging you an arm and a leg to use their product. I mean this stuff grows wild for crying out loud.

The other side of me is happy this was done. The amazing food of the gods will be used to actually treat people suffering. In the end, it is about treating people and not keeping them doped up on opioids.

Who would have thought that my hippy spidey-sense would lead me to start this thread and a few months later some lab would synthesize that which was believed to be un-synthesizable?

ETA: onlinelibrary.wiley.com - paper (abstract).

We see life breathe

I think I could only see myself micro dosing C20H25N3O if I was getting it directly from the source. So many fakes out there. But, Psilocybin I would definitely say yeah. It has a lot of potential for many applications, overlapping the thread's topic in several areas, but each definitely have distinct separations for use too. Often times these experiences have a positive effect for many days to come after the humble soberness. Some neurologists and other physicians and scientists have even pointed out that micro dosing Psilocybin could be highly effective in treating traumatic brain injury, PTSD, anxiety, depression, and so on.

To add something relevant to your OP—it is truly amazing how one can become aware of the flowing energy not just from within but becoming aware of how everything is connected by virtue of one collective flowing energy, and the fluidity in acceptance of this awareness by one's own consciousness, it is such a state-of-mind that I believe is what could heal on a quantum level, because it is arguable to say that one can become in synch with that level of energy—humbling to say the least.

I would rather micro dose something that is growing from the Earth personally, but I do think C20H25N3O definitely has its place in providing overall good health and good state-of-mind.

Nice thread, gonna check out the links now.

Here's some clinical trials that are currently recruiting participants for both, C20H25N3O and Psilocybin, in case anyone wants to read about them.

• C20H25N3O Clinical Trails:

Role of Dopamine, Serotonin and 5-HT2A Receptors in Emotion Processing (LAM)

C20H25N3O Treatment in Persons Suffering From Anxiety Symptoms in Severe Somatic Diseases or in Psychiatric Anxiety Disorders (C20H25N3O-assist)

• Results from a Randomized Controlled Trial with C20H25N3O
Safety and efficacy of C20H25N3O-assisted psychotherapy for anxiety associated with life-threatening diseases.


• Psilocybin Clinical Trials:

Psilocybin-facilitated Smoking Cessation Treatment: A Pilot Study

Psilocybin-assisted Group Therapy for Demoralization in Long-term AIDS Survivors

The Effects of Psilocybin-Facilitated Experience on the Psychology and Effectiveness of Religious Professionals

I left out the last one because it is a NIDA sponsored study.

a reply to: M4ngo

Nice and well thought out reply! I'm in agreement with your post!

There is a book called Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience, that is about the "riding the wave" feeling when all the pieces are in place you just exist riding this wave of intuition. Aka, "In the zone", that feeling also has lasting effects. I had been trying nootropics (vitamin mix with herbs) but you can get the same feeling with a dopio! The true trick, as most hippies will note, is how to be in that state without any drugs. Until one can do that then the external medicine will have to be used.

Seems science is catching up with shaman have known for a while! I like the use of mushrooms for the terminally ill and easing their impending death fears. Without allowing personal choice of ending your own life, having a good connection to universe is the next best thing.

Thank you for the links!

a reply to: M4ngo

It has taken a couple of months.

The company is called COMPASS Pathways and according to Crunchbase, the UK-based business’s seed funding amount is around $5 million. The company announced it is partnering with Worldwide Clinical Trials, a clinical development and pharmaceutical company, to conduct “a major program of late-stage clinical trials for psilocybin therapy for treatment-resistant depression.”

Psilocybin, the psychedelic compound in magic mushrooms, has previously been demonstrated in scientific studies to ease depression. A 2017 study published in Scientific Reports found that magic mushrooms reduced blood flow in the brain’s amygdala, which plays a role in the development of depression, essentially giving it a reboot. Each of the twenty patients that participated in the trial claimed that their mood improved and their stress levels decreased after they dosed with psilocybin. Other research projects have also found psilocybin can help ease addiction and anxiety.

Inverse.com, Dec. 13, 2017 - Peter Thiel is Betting That Magic Mushrooms Can Treat Depression.

This company is one that Peter Thiel (PayPal creator) invests in. This big news for investors and for people that are following the "War on Drugs". The actual proven treatment is reason for the DEA to re-classify psilocybin. Now a company is going to be making a medicine out of the stuff!

If you google "magic ____" there are stories about Oregon legalizing it. There is not much of a reason of keeping it illegal if it is growing on your lawn after a good rain fall!

ETA: The US will not take part of the Compass pathways study ext year (2018). Too bad.

This study was carried out last year. The results were just published, March 20, 2018. I am going to tag it on!

The study—not for the first time—shows how '___' can create “temporary alterations in self-experience” that make it hard for us to distinguish ourselves from others, lead author Katrin Preller, a researcher at the University of Zurich, told Gizmodo via email. This blurring, Preller added, can then hamper our ability to interact socially.

“We showed that alterations in self-experience are not independent from alterations in social cognition,” Preller said.

Preller and her team used the experiment to try to better understand mental disorders like depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia. The same sort of alterations we see with T&C-25 can be found in these disorders, though they manifest in different ways.

“While schizophrenia patients suffer from an incoherent self-experience, depressed patients show an increased self-focus, i.e. ruminating about the own person/personality,” she explained. In both cases, our ability to interact with others in a healthy way can be impaired.

Preller and her team theorized, based on animal research, that a specific version of the neurotransmitter serotonin, called serotonin 2A, plays a major role in how T&C-25 affects the brain.

And in fact, when the volunteers were given both T&C-25 and a drug that blocks serotonin 2A receptors, they performed just as well on the game and had similar brain activity as they did on placebos. That finding in particular highlights the potential applications of drugs that directly interact with and stabilize a person’s level of serotonin 2A, Preller said.

Gizmodo.com - New T&C-25 Research May Help Explain the Brain Chemistry of Depression and Schizophrenia.

The study was on 24 volunteers who got into an MRI machine. They had a computer screen with an avatar to interact with. They took a baseline. Then some were given T&C-25 while others, a placebo. There results are as noted above.

The "we are one" feeling seems pretty well explained! Yeah, it sounds all hippy-dippy but the sense of a separate self does blur, as proven by the MRI scans! Cool study.

Why do I have an image of Cheech sitting there with a wired helmet on watching war videos come to mind? lol

Again, I may have jumped the gun by a year!

Inverse.com, Feb. 28, 2018 - '___' Study Reveals Unprecedented "Harmonic" Reorganization of Brain.

This is about a study done in Barcelona. Other studies are also pointed out.

BigThink.com, March 22, 2018 - It's time to integrate psychedelics into therapy.

They start with the study mentioned in the Gizmodo article above but then include many other psychedelics research. They are asking the question the DEA probably fears most, "Why are these specific drugs banned?" The general question is in the observational title.