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Mandela Effect - A Civil Conversation Between Skeptics And Effected

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posted on May, 13 2017 @ 03:23 AM
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originally posted by: Pearj
a reply to: tigertatzen

The anti-ME'ers who come in with the one liners I think used to do if "for the stars". They received peer validation which falsely adds to a person's feeling of self worth.

It's like a chain of people patting themselves on the back for patting themselves on the back.

I've noted how little of that is in this thread though - I can sense them starving (they'll get it somewhere else though, no biggie).

You're on to something - talk it up! Talking (for me) helps organize thoughts and feelings.


This is a forum where people come to discuss things. When you create a thread every member has the right to read them and reply, whether they agree or disagree. If you only want people to agree with you, you should create a personal blog.

We all have different opinions on different topics, be it ufo abductions, flat Earth, religions. ME effect, etc. Responding with a differing view to one of your threads or posts does not mean people are 'starving' for self worth or they are trolls or they are obsessed. Nope. It simply means they think you are misguided or misinformed and they are trying to explain how and why.

You asked for civility on this thread, and yet you are the one constantly criticizing and talking rubbish about those who disagree with you. Remember: go after the ball, not the player.





posted on May, 13 2017 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: Wolfenz

It's interesting to think about how it would work, if the effects would be instant or not. Since we are talking about time it's hard to give a sensible answer to that.

Maybe Trump could comission a poll about it to troll people some more.



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: Pearj
If *I* had to be nailed down on it though, my best guess would be scientific advancements (no, I'm not scared of science - in case that's what you're thinking). More importantly the whole thing has a definite prophetic overtone (for me it's Biblical, for others it may be Hopi, Mayan, early Pagan, etc..).

Though it wouldn't matter what cause I point to - you (or someone) will find a way to poke fun at it. See how guarded anti-ME'es have made me? I'm trying to anticipate your jokes so I can get to them before you do.


Scientific advancements is a little vague. Do you think it's those evil pocket protector wearing nerds at CERN? Or is it secret Nazi tech. Or is it just some dude in his basement who rustled up a time machine and these are butterfly effect differences caused by his travels.

By keeping it vague you are also keeping it unfalsifiable. Until there is a falsifiable theory to explain ME's (my poor attempt was Mandolia) it has to be considered with many grains of salt.

In regards to its prophetic nature, that has disappointed me a little. Not long ago you said to me...


I've never seen or thought of ME stuff as related to religion.


So thanks for the honest answers now, however how much progress can be made when you flat out reject plausible explanations for ME's whilst holding vague, inconsistent and unfalsifiable answers as superior?

It's closed mindedness masquerading as being open to all possibilities as far as I can see.



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: Agartha

This is a forum where people come to discuss things. When you create a thread every member has the right to read them and reply, whether they agree or disagree. If you only want people to agree with you, you should create a personal blog.


I was replying to another user who remarked about these folks. And I have an opinion on what they said.

I think the one liner anti-ME'er does it for peer validation.

Now I'm responding to you, and saying the same thing.

Should I not have an opinion?

Seems like you read my opinion, then responded to me with your opinion about it - sounds like this is a forum where people come to discuss things?



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

By keeping it vague you are also keeping it unfalsifiable. Until there is a falsifiable theory to explain ME's (my poor attempt was Mandolia) it has to be considered with many grains of salt.

In regards to its prophetic nature, that has disappointed me a little. Not long ago you said to me...

"I've never seen or thought of ME stuff as related to religion."


I don't speak for all Effected (I stated that).

The response is vague (of course) as I'd already stated I'm not sure why it's happening - but you asked again.

Now your asking me to nail down what type of person is causing it.. Nazi's, Nerds and basement time travelers.. lol

You'll have to get your solid root cause from somewhere else - I don't have a solid root cause for you.


Honest then and honest now..

You said ME was like religion - I said I've never thought of it that way..

That's where you got my quote from - and it's completely out of context. I think most people can see through that, and frankly I expected better.



edit on 13-5-2017 by Pearj because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 09:59 AM
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Since my quote was taken so badly out of context, I thought I'd clear the air.


originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I have atheistic motives. I see huge similarities between religion and the idea of ME's.

There will eventually be Mandela Effect churches and an extremist Mandela Effect believer will try to correct a "mistake" by killing some 70's celeb we all thought was dead but wasn't. A belief system based on the idea that dimensions can change around us is dangerous and leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

It won't end well, and all because of a silly and demonstrably wrong belief that falls apart under any real scrutiny.

That's why I agonise over it.


originally posted by: Pearj

To your point..

I've never seen or thought of ME stuff as related to religion. In fact I see it as far from religion. When I asked at my church (member for 17 years, been through discipleship etc) the pastor remembered Lion and the Lamb but had no explanation for why it wasn't in the Bible any more. I follow my faith based on faith (non-visual stimuli, a "matter of the heart"). I see the ME as a tangible thing occurring.

Most people I know don't talk about the ME in religious terms. Neither do I. We don't blindly follow, we're drawing off what we know.

Why does it seem religious to you? Does it seem as though we "blindly follow"?



So... we should be clear now. That's what was actually said and the context therein.

Based on above, and your later out-of-context response, I now question your motives.



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: Pearj

Fair enough, could you explain what this means or perhaps give an example as I obviously misunderstood it...



More importantly the whole thing has a definite prophetic overtone (for me it's Biblical, for others it may be Hopi, Mayan, early Pagan, etc..).



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar


There’s an old saying in Tennessee..

I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee.. that says:

"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you... A fooled man can’t get fooled again."



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: Pearj
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar


There’s an old saying in Tennessee..

I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee.. that says:

"Fool me once, shame on, shame on you... A fooled man can’t get fooled again."




Your attitude is precisely why no one can have an actual "civil" discussion with you on this subject.

Unless they agree with you of course.

 


ME is nothing more than the person on the street corner looking up at a very tall building.

If they stand there long enough looking up, soon other's will join them, looking up also, trying to see what it is the other person sees.

After a while, you'd think they'd give up and move on.....but not as long as the person who started it keeps going on and on about how there is something there.....others will stay to try and see what it is......even when there is nothing there.

BTW - It's the word "Mayonnaise" has been around since the early 1800s, and is impossible to pronounce correctly without the extra "n" that you are complaining about.

Amazing that there are so many "ME things" that seem to....."Effect" you?

What's next? Only one "Z" in the word Pizza?



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: Pearj
I was replying to another user who remarked about these folks. And I have an opinion on what they said.

I think the one liner anti-ME'er does it for peer validation.

Now I'm responding to you, and saying the same thing.

Should I not have an opinion?

Seems like you read my opinion, then responded to me with your opinion about it - sounds like this is a forum where people come to discuss things?


You asked for civility, then somebody made a broad comment on ME believers and you, instead of showing the civility you asked for, decided to make a broad comment about all ME skeptics.

That's why I said: go after the ball, not the player. The ball is your topic: ME, the topic was never about other members. I am surprised you fail to understand the simplicity of what I said.



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: Pearj
a reply to: SeaWorthy

The hell part is interesting..

..but for me it's "mayonnaise" (should be "mayonaise") - they're messing with my f#4king mayo - now it's personal.


I was going to say the same! It just looks so wrong with that extra N.

Big one for me was the Sally Field (s) speech as the whole family even distant members remember it the old way. It is too short to get wrong.



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: pacific




I DO think there needs to be a civil discussion about it. Those who ridicule and claim faulty memory seem to only want to derail a thread.


Dare I say that your spelling focus derails the same.
A play on word is used and I find it effective :-)

You are clearly intelligent so think about the fact that you are on a website with thousands of people from all walks of life and many countries. I can't imagine how having discussions with such a varied group must stress you if you are stuck on spelling errors and punctuation!

There have been people who have presented fantastic insight on subjects who have zero education. I had a Great Uncle who could not read or write and yet I learned a ton from him. I think maybe you would be better off to stretch your tolerance and learn from each as they have to offer. That is what a good teacher does they learn not only teach what THEY know.
edit on 13-5-2017 by SeaWorthy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: TerminalVelocity




BTW - It's the word "Mayonnaise" has been around since the early 1800s, and is impossible to pronounce correctly without the extra "n" that you are complaining about.


Actually, we grew up with Man...aise. :-) They teach kids Mayo now makes it easier. Our teacher on here would have had a field day correcting us as kids!



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Wolfenz

It's interesting to think about how it would work, if the effects would be instant or not. Since we are talking about time it's hard to give a sensible answer to that.

Maybe Trump could comission a poll about it to troll people some more.



There is a Professor by the name of Ronald Mallett , That thinks Time Travel is Possible ,
He has the Formulas , To Prove it Could ,

The Government COULD have Done it with his Help

or The American Government was Capable of Time Travel Since !

October 28, 1943. as Some Theorized.

I would Not be surprised

Another confuses me its the Ford motor company Emblem with the little pig tail curl on the F
on older cars
I dont Recall that , either.

Something is Changing Historic Events .






edit on 62017SaturdayfAmerica/Chicago5132 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)

edit on 62017SaturdayfAmerica/Chicago5132 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)

edit on 62017SaturdayfAmerica/Chicago5132 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Because 1% of Americans think Australia has changed, when 0% of Australians think so. If the ME was real then 1% of Australians would think so too.

That's why it's silly.


Americans think that america has changed too, go figure. How many people saw the globe, and america in particular?

I have my drawings of when I was a child with south america where I think it was. That means not only did I make a mistake in childhood, but I went decades looking at the globe, which is impossible to avoid indefinitely, without ever questioning or realizing my childhood notions were in error. Surely I would have said some day, in the many decades, wow america sure looks different from what I remember, didn't happen. Most interestingly many seem to recall it in the exact same place I drew it decades ago.

The mandela effect seems centered on the USA mostly from what I've heard, both the fiction, movies, geography, etc it is mostly people from there that are noticing changes.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Because 1% of Americans think Australia has changed, when 0% of Australians think so. If the ME was real then 1% of Australians would think so too.

That's why it's silly.


This
when landmass "changes", mostly its americans who think it changed..odd, innit...why don't south americans demand SA changed, or AU folks say that changed...irish say they moved north.

its just poor learning and remembering.

Some people from central america also think the south changed, and again everyone has seen the globe of the earth particularly the american side, it looks very weird now.

originally posted by: Pearj

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: mclarenmp4
And it doesn't change the fact it's just bad memory.



Please describe how bad memory applies to this:



She's right next to it.


..Like I said - we've moved well past the faulty memory argument. It's time to look closer.


And as others said the guy taking the photo didn't correct her, he didn't notice as he was taking the photo? and people commenting on the photos, didn't comment on these multiple photos how they were wrong at the time, from what I hear.

Drawings, people doing art repeatedly looking at the photo or statue while drawing didn't notice while repeateadly looking at it?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Pearj

And yet here you and so many others are, online, saying you believe it. Australians will say they believe in ME .. just none of them think Australia has moved.

Weird.

Doctors can believe in the ME. Just not that organs used to be in other locations.

Can't be faulty memory ....


There's a doctor on you tube that talks about the organs, already pointed in the thread, but again don't know if he's a doctor in medicine or something else.

In any case, the heart position does seem weird, with the place your hand over your heart salute no longer being hand over heart. I would assume there would have to be a history of countless commentary on how the position is wrong from its very inception.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Then why would you even believe something when you admit ME makes no sense and faulty memory is a much better explanation?


Would you consider the illusion you get seeing a 3D movie a result of faulty vision?

I don't think "faulty memory" is a good explanation.
It's a quirky side effect of our amazing memories.

No, it's not actually 3d though. It's a trick of the mind, same as ME.


the brain is computing a 3 dimensional image from stereoscopic disparity. The information and calculation check, the 3d image can be extracted from slightly separated 2d images of a 3d object.

PS
One would think on stuff like the apollo correction forums, people would have pointed out "WTF are you talking about watch the vid again your correction is completely wrong it doesn't say that". I've not checked but from what I hear it seems the threads didn't go like that.

originally posted by: omniEther
Really, south America moved because your looking at a globe on a desk,? gimme a break it's in the same spot it's always been. If. I'm 100% sure A person from 2017 current day could 50 years ago could use the EXACT same directions to get there from a set location they they've traveled before.

projections change all the time even the map you learned in school isn't accurate.

That's the only one I'll reply to because it's a good example of the mindset of a ME believers, you'd rather believe you live in an alternate universe where south America isn't where it is supposed to be


There are frequent travelers who recall their usual travel time to a south american nation changing significantly.

Universal puts the freaking globe in front of pretty much all their movies, and the globe appears time and again pretty much everywhere, particularly the american side.

originally posted by: Cutepants

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: Pearj
a reply to: SeaWorthy

Good catch, thank you...

I'll see your Herbal Essences and raise you a Hellmann's Mayonnaise

(was Helman's Mayonaise - yep, mayonaise changed)


These name changes are really weird. This one is interesting becoming Hell.


It means bright in German. Just saying you shouldn't read to much into it.

I think the the scene in Moonraker is the weirdest one for me. But I know I'd never even have thought of whether she had braces or not if this thing didn't appear on the internet in 2015.


The Simpsons, commercials, commentary, etc commemorate that scene with braces. You'd think each episode, commercial, or commentary, would have comments at the time saying "people mistakenly think she had braces", afaik that didn't occur.


Lion and Lamb are symbols of god. Wolves are often symbols of evil, of deception, of a deceiver, and some say satan(the christian boogeyman).
edit on 13-5-2017 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-5-2017 by Xenogears because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2017 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: Pearj

OK, so you say you believe ME's are caused by scientific advancements.
You also say you don't know who or what caused it.

You say it's prophetic in nature and in your case biblical.
You also say it's not related to religion.

You also refuse to answer a simple question such as an example of something you have learned whilst investigating ME's.

How are we supposed to have a civil discussion when you are not willing to be open about what you actually believe?
Surely an empath like yourself can understand how frustrating this is.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

So.... None of what you said has correct context for my statements (again).

I think you know many people just visiting this thread aren't going to read 11 pages - they will read the last page, where you comment that I'm "all over the place in my statements".

When I correct you on that page, you say "Fair enough".

...till the next page where you take my statements out of context again.

It looks like you're counting on me getting tired of correcting you, so that if I don't - then you've discredited ME for new visitors to the thread on that page - if I do then you have something to briefly argue with, until it's time to discredit again.


You stated the ME was like religion - then listed the ways you thought it related.

..I said I don't think the ME is relatable to being a religion.

You asked me to speak for all Effected as to the cause of the ME..

..I said I can't speak for everyone (people have varied reasons they think the ME is occurring) - and that I don't exactly know, but if you had to nail me down on it (If I had to choose a cause and had no other choice), I'd say the cause might have to do with scientific advancements and it has a prophetic overtone.

You asked me to detail what I've learned while investigating the Mandela Effect.

..I gave you a link to a thread I created that details some of what I've learned.


Stop asking me what the cause of the Mandela Effect is - I have literally answered you over and over again saying I don't know the root cause.

Your goal and the methods used seem obvious to me (and probably others too). I could be wrong, but I doubt it.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 10:18 AM
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a reply to: Wolfenz

I like your posts.. they have a Bukowski flow.




posted on May, 14 2017 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: Xenogears

Do you happen to have the drawings from when you were a kid? They should of changed, but if they didn't on your drawings, that could be important evidence - and at the least will be a refreshing for us to see (the way the continents used to be).

When anti-ME'ers see the Thinker photos - I think they know it's fishy that they weren't corrected. The simplest explanation is that they were mimicking the pose they saw the statue in. The statue changed in the photo but the human didn't.



posted on May, 14 2017 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien




No you don't understand. My point is that if they live ON it and are a PART of it then they would not be aware it has moved, see? People outside would have noticed it because it's relative.


Your point is moot,

No one has claimed the country has moved because no one that believes so has actually sailed or flown using navigation.

What the claim is is that on maps its moved.


The really sad thing is those effected thinks there has been a continental shift between 2 realities they have both experienced instead of maps being printed differently and not to scale.




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