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Mandela Effect - A Civil Conversation Between Skeptics And Effected

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posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:16 AM
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A conversation just starting in another thread between myself and KyoZero seems important. The conversation isn't directly related to the thread it's in, so I've decided to make it it's own thread (else our text will be removed as "off topic").

It can help to answer many questions folks may have, and may open a civil line between us - allowing us to relate (not berate).

I won't paste the whole text from KyoZero - I want him to get those stars. His text is here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is my response to him with his questions:

-----

Hey! It's ok to be skeptical (I am too) - and you sound like an adult - so I would love to talk!

I have a question for you about the amount of anger with the "un-Effected". Where does it come from? If you look very closely, it doesn't appear to come from a place that's understandable.

..But let me answer your questions first:


"How does one know whether an ME occurred versus a mass forgetting?"

There is no way yet, but there are a few clues..

1. Historically, there's never been the mass "forgetting" we see today. We aren't talking about misheard lyrics, rather iconic catch phrases, products and geography we use or see every day.

2. All the people "forgetting" seem to forget the same exact things in the same exact way. The odds of that are very low.

3. Knowledge - not flash memory. I am 100% positive the gradient changed on gimp. I know because I've used it regularly for years. I know South America moved because of the globe on my desk. I know the Coke logo changed because I study typography (design logos) and had just been studying the logo before it changed - it had a tilde. I could go on qualifying, but there's no need. I know these things like I know my address - knowledge.

4. Reality residue oddness. Rodin's Thinker (one of) is outside the museum near my home. I've seen it bunches (even where my wife and I had our first date). There are photos of people next to the statue imitating the pose - yet the statue doesn't match. There are photos of people with the caption "Standing next to Lady Liberty" on Ellis Island - yet there's no statue behind them. There are videos of people holding up Braggs to the camera as they read the label - yet the label doesn't say Braggs.

5. Residue flips. Tidy Cats went to Tidy Cat and ME videos were made - now it's back to Tidy Cats and documented. There are websites saying "Houston we have a problem" is incorrect. Entire threads were made and people swore it was "Houston we've had a problem." (using the sites to back them up). Now it's changed back and both the sites and naysayers are confirmably wrong.

6. Biblical prophecy. Christ said there would be no more "signs and wonders" after He left - but that there would be signs and wonders when He was about to return. Reality changing qualifies as signs and wonders. It's prophesied there would be trumpets sounding in the sky - which we've seen in the last few years (what would be interpreted as trumpets to a prophet being given the vision).

7. Corrections... Historically they're everywhere - except where "residue" comes in. Take the case of the 'hard-core star wars fan' - they correct people today in droves - but where were they over the last 20 years? Tons of MMA Kidney Punch videos - but the kidneys aren't there anymore. Same with JFK's car, etc.. Folks come out of the woodwork to say "It's always been a 6 seater!" - but there's no corrections going back (I've searched). In the Time magazine photo of JFK's car, there's no correction saying "This is a replica, the original was a 6 seater." - same with the replica in the museum and the FBI mock up.. There should be a 20 year paper-trail correcting "Luke, I am your father." - but there isn't. Corrections only started a few years ago.

There's more to this "lack of backwards compatibility". Take the Arctic. There used to be a landmass, but not anymore. If there's never been a solid mass - why aren't there historical shipping lanes though it? It's a shorter route (costs less) and we've had ice busing hulls for over 100 years. Would the Santa Clause story of evolved around open sea? What about Admiral Byrd, arctic dog sled races, the NatGeo expedition, and the multi-national team that made the trek? I remember those occurring at the north pole landmass. Don't get stuck on the arctic though, the point is backwards compatibility.

8. Recent science provides plausibility. The closest thing we have to a unified theory is string theory, which requires multiple universes. Every particle collision causes entangled pairs which have the unique ability to effect the other faster than light travels (something previously thought impossible). We know now that time can be manipulated via speed through space-time - something also thought impossible. Quantum computing works by doing half the calculation in "another reality". If the tangled pairs we're creating can affect reality here and in "another place" then there is plausibility for the impossible.


"we are the enlightened ones."

1. No Effected person I know has ever said anything like this - ever..

2. Naysayers say that about us. They're creating the divide. Here's one of many examples: www.abovetopsecret.com...

3. I use the term "the Effected" because it's shorter than "Those affected by the Mandela Effect".

4. Ask yourself if you would like to be singled out for something like this - not likely. Now transpose that feeling to others - that's how we feel.


"how do I honestly figure out if it is a case of ME versus a case of "damn I swear it was always this way?"

There may not be a tangible way yet - but there's your own awareness to lean on...

1. Do you know the difference between knowledge and memory? I know when something I know is a memory and when I know absolutely. I don't auto-assume I know and I don't subscribe to every Effect.

2. There's a thread here where a teacher claims to of read the Berenstein books to her class daily; remembering the "alternative spelling" to be correct. That's trusting knowledge.

3. You are the one in control of assumed validity.. Only you can say if it's memory or knowledge. I'm honest about what I know - and I assume you would be too.

4. Each detail above moves us past the tired "faulty memory" argument. It's time to look closer.


-----

Well, I hope that gets us started. I've wanted a civil conversation since I started posting, and had about given up.. So needless to say I'm looking forward to engaging!

Thank you for your civility and good-natured approach.

Also: As a psychotherapist, please look deeply into the naysayer anger thing - I've never been able to get one to tell me why their angry, when I ask it's like they short-circuit and go blank. It feels like there's more to it.




posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:21 AM
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There is no ME, only bad memories. No anger either.
edit on 10-5-2017 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

In that case there should be people investigating why so many people have a wrong shared memory.
If it was just bad memory, the geography changes for every person would be different because each individual would have their own faulty memory but we don't it's all the SAME memory.

It's not a memory issue.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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If there is allegedly multiple universes (unlimited?) with very little changes, at least that is how I heard this theory, then how come almost everyone remember the VERY SAME differences? One would think different individuals see different versions of the universe?



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: mclarenmp4

Except there are numerous ME and someone might say it's Berenstein and Mandela died and someone else might say it's Berenstein and Mandela lived. So there is no consistency .. other than the consistency of false memories.

Now as far as geography goes, what has changed, and show me all these countless people who live there who think it.
edit on 10-5-2017 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: szino9

There are many theories as to what people believe is the cause of the M.E and that is one of them.

There is also the theory that we died in our previous reality due to a cataclysmic event. This is the theory of Quantum Immortality.
QI is the theory that when you die, your life doesn't end, you just shift to the next available parallel reality that is similar to the previous reality but ever so slightly different.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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Well if changes in our history occured then they wouldn't be immediately recognisable in our reality. The ripple effect takes time to catch up with our timeline. I'm not sure if I'm one of the effected but some recent memories i have don't add up. Pol for instance is full of photos that looked like they have changed over times. Maybe only a really low percentage of the population is able to remember the other timeline. It's really weird that people dismiss the ME as fiction pretty quick. People believe in all sort of things but timetravel,parallel dimension and merging timelines is now suddenly taboo.

I guess i must be insane because i watched online news headlines change right in front of my eyes. I dismissed it at first as just a glitch but now i'm not so sure anymore. Little words changed instead of a no to a yes and the like. Since i'm in the middle of really strange events all my life ME being real wouldn't surprise me.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: mclarenmp4

And it doesn't change the fact it's just bad memory. People living halfway across the world think Australia should be somewhere else. Australians all say no, it's always been here. People halfway across the world say ME rather than I was wrong.

It's kind of silly.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: mclarenmp4

Meaning if I die now I am switching over to that myself and still live there. What about my soul?



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:00 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: mclarenmp4

And it doesn't change the fact it's just bad memory. People living halfway across the world think Australia should be somewhere else. Australians all say no, it's always been here. People halfway across the world say ME rather than I was wrong.

It's kind of silly.


Why is it silly? ATS is full of topics that most people would dismiss as completely mental and the same people would certainly call the authorities to lock us all up in an instant. I'm not necessarily saying this phenomenon is true but i don't see the harm in discussing it.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: Perfectenemy

Because 1% of Americans think Australia has changed, when 0% of Australians think so. If the ME was real then 1% of Australians would think so too.

That's why it's silly.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:05 PM
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A lot to respond to without going into pages that will remain unread.

So, one thing that jumped out was Admiral Byrd. I have found his (alleged) accounts fascinating..one of the many things that brought me to ATS and absolutely know it was in the south pole (antarctica). even checked google maps for the things discussed (bad resolution and such). The rest of the artic stuff..the artic is never just a ocean..there is a giant ice sheet there that expands and contracts throughout the year..that is why there is no ice breaking routes through there..chipping away a thousand miles of ice as it freezes behind you. nonsense. we get stuck today skimming the south pole in expeditions

South America: I used to date a girl who lived in Brazil (Florida here) and her timezone is 1 hour ahead. you would get that only if she was more east than I was. if the "mandela" map was accurate, she would be roughly on the same region, therefore same time.

Its just shared memes, faulty memory shared, and front loading. Luke I am your father kind of thing to give reference to a otherwise obscure line that by itself would be meaningless.
No, I am your father...no real connection
Luke, I am your father...oh, right, that super popular star wars movie reference..

You suggest there is no correction until recently..but its recently when the internet came out, so its not like NBC nightly news broke out in the early 90s to correct phrases. hell, today we have sayings that are all wrong. no doubt in a number of years, someone will claim its mandela effect and it used to be X..but its just not
such as:
wrong quotes:
The proof is in the pudding (proper quote: the proof of the pudding is in the eating)
You've got another thing coming (proper quote: If that's what you think, you've got another think coming)
I could care less (proper quote: I couldn't care less)
etc
things get said incorrectly, it is then amplified (media, common saying, in the case of you've got another thing coming..a song, etc)
But it is just wrong..no dimensional shift needed, just misinterpretations, pushed forward, and accepted as original

I can't comment on much of what you said..or rarely on mandela stuff, because things brought up aren't things we use or know daily..its typically something from years back that is subject to influence and misremembering (unless you did your thesis on Bearenstain Bears, you most likely just glanced at it as a kid or tossed it to your kids as a parent without too much deep studying)



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Because 1% of Americans think Australia has changed, when 0% of Australians think so. If the ME was real then 1% of Australians would think so too.

That's why it's silly.


This
when landmass "changes", mostly its americans who think it changed..odd, innit...why don't south americans demand SA changed, or AU folks say that changed...irish say they moved north.

its just poor learning and remembering.
edit on 10-5-2017 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: mclarenmp4
And it doesn't change the fact it's just bad memory.



Please describe how bad memory applies to this:



She's right next to it.


..Like I said - we've moved well past the faulty memory argument. It's time to look closer.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:13 PM
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originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

In that case there should be people investigating why so many people have a wrong shared memory.
If it was just bad memory, the geography changes for every person would be different because each individual would have their own faulty memory but we don't it's all the SAME memory.

It's not a memory issue.


There has been lots of studies and will also have alot more.We have learned are memories are not what we assume and how they are affected.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: Pearj

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: mclarenmp4
And it doesn't change the fact it's just bad memory.



Please describe how bad memory applies to this:



She's right next to it.


..Like I said - we've moved well past the faulty memory argument. It's time to look closer.

So someone RIGHT NEXT to the statue poses wrong and that is proof of ME ... That is absolute proof people get stuff wrong, she is right there, she just saw it, and she STILL remembered it wrong.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Because 1% of Americans think Australia has changed, when 0% of Australians think so. If the ME was real then 1% of Australians would think so too.

That's why it's silly.


This
when landmass "changes", mostly its americans who think it changed..odd, innit...why don't south americans demand SA changed, or AU folks say that changed...irish say they moved north.

its just poor learning and remembering.


What if the "event" occured on the american continent first and it's still slowly expanding to reach all the corners in the world? This could take years or centuries even.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Perfectenemy

Because 1% of Americans think Australia has changed, when 0% of Australians think so. If the ME was real then 1% of Australians would think so too.

That's why it's silly.


This
when landmass "changes", mostly its americans who think it changed..odd, innit...why don't south americans demand SA changed, or AU folks say that changed...irish say they moved north.

its just poor learning and remembering.


Even with mandela i th ought he died to being honest. However when i looked in to it i remembered what i thought was a funeral. I just knew i watched it on TV than i watched a video of his release. And watching that video as they had parades etc i realized thats where i got it from and was wrong. Problem is apparently everyone cant figure out when they made a mistake.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: Perfectenemy

Every ME just happens to take place in the population that is ignorant. The ME about changing organ locations just happens to not effect anyone in the medical field.

Makes so much sense now.

Oh, and if that universe is literally gone .. how can there be a ripple effect? The explanation contradicts ME itself.
edit on 10-5-2017 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: Pearj

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: mclarenmp4
And it doesn't change the fact it's just bad memory.



Please describe how bad memory applies to this:



She's right next to it.


..Like I said - we've moved well past the faulty memory argument. It's time to look closer.


This is a very interesting topic but this picture proves nothing. If it changed after the photo was taken, why didn't it change her pose as well? Seems to me she just didn't do it right. Unless someone can produce a picture of the statue posed as she is.
edit on 10-5-2017 by MfId77 because: (no reason given)



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