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US Government admits to ET weapons and chemtrails?

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posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 09:09 AM
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Extraterrestrial weapons means space-based weapons in this context. However, why couldn't they use the word "space-based" then. Freudian slip?


No slip, they prefer the latin terms in legalese...
It's being taken out of context, just as you surmised...

I'm sorry but chemtrails just don't make any sense... Sure, all of that about the "parts per million" etc., but you must remember, we're not only dealing with the area...we're dealing with the VOLUME, which only increases with altitude... Even with particles that settle, many of them simply won't, as the atmosphere is more than capable of transporting liquid particles as well. Even if a chemical was potent at parts per billion, we're still looking at an awful lot needed...not to mention, that it is indiscriminant, unless of course the illuminati constantly walk around with gas masks and hazmat suits...
And, as another said, where are the planes? Where are the pilots? Airliners are full of passengers and luggage, they simply don't have the room for a boatload of chemicals...not to mention, trying to silence all of the ground crew that would have to be involved in this....and there simply aren't enough private unidentified flights to be enough required to do this effectively... It just doesn't hold water....




posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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You're talking about Dennis Kucinich's abortive "chem-trail" bill, which, he claims was written by his staff. He also claimed that he did not completely read it prior to introduction, which seems rather stupid (even for Kucinich) but, in reality, that's what happens in many cases in Congress today.

Here's the full story:

Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) introduced, back in the first session of the 107th Congress, the "Space Preservation Act of 2001" as HR 2977. Although introduced by Kucinich, it was prepared by his staff with substantial input form one of his constituents, a "chem-trail" devotee named Lorie Kramer. It was, even in the minds of the "chem-trail" community, fatally flawed, since it banned "chem-trails" and other "weapons" at an altitude of fifty miles or higher, where persistent contrails are typically produced at an altitude of five to seven miles.

When the bill got into committee, Kucinich began to get a lot of laughs and embarrassing questions, such as "what is this crap?" from the committee members; it was there that he realized what he had introduced, and withdrew it immediately.

You have to understand that, in the eyes of most political observers outside his own district, Kucinich is considered a bit flaky, as evinced by his abortive run for the Democratic Presidential nomination in 2003-2004. Most of his bills never get out of committee, and this was no exception.

Kucinich re-introduced the bill on January 2002, now re-written without the "chem-trail" stuff, as HR 3616 during the second half of the 107th session. It never got out of committee, either.

For about six months in late 2001, the "chem-trail" community was agog over Kucinich's bill, actually believing that he, being a US Representative, had credibility in Washington (he doesn't); and he was their hero. This adulation turned immediately to enmity when Kucinich, realizing he'd been scammed by the "chem-trailers", pulled the bill and re-wrote it.

Several of the more vocal of the "chem-trailers", including one of the architects Lorie Kramer, hinted darkly that the whole thing was a conspiracy, and that Kucinich, instead of being hoaxed by the "chem-trail" thing, had actually been either threatened or bribed by the usual suspects like the CIA or the Lizards or the International House of Pancakes.

Needless to say, when the "chem-trail" shills post about Kucinich's bill, they don't give the whole story; the truth about Kucinich and the "chem-trail" hoax is just a bit too painful for them to handle.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 09:32 AM
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I am willing to bet that if every nation and the leaders of them came forward admitting to the things above, the majority would still not believe.

What is it going to take to convince the masses? The government is practically flaunting and flashing the proof in the face of the world, and still people choose to be ignorant of the possible.

I guess free will and choosing your ignorance go hand in hand, yeah yeah, mine too.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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suspects like the CIA or the Lizards or the International House of Pancakes.


LOL!

I think IHOP is using other methods. "Operation Boysenberry" is moving ahead as planned.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Well, Congress knows of the suspicion involving Extra-Terrestrials so maybe they were just forward-thinking in their wording here. I mean, space-based weapons are just as futuristic as ET, right?


Are you kiddding me?
havent you guys ever heard of "star wars" program or UN decision to break contract and have usa weaponise atmosphere and space?
ITs old news not future news buddy.......over 25 years actually.
I have a picture of 1 of the actual MASERs as big as a space shuttle from russia called energia !

And ET has been here to so thats a big fat NOT to both of your statements, lol


[edit on 4-2-2005 by lizzardsamok]



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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space based weapons havent been instituted yet. Planned, maybe. Instituted? no.
and counter-weapons dont count, and by those i'm refering to the missle defence system being developed.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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lizard says:

"...UN decision to break contract and have usa weaponise atmosphere and space?"

No, I haven't. As a matter of fact, why don't you send us the link -- preferably from a UN source, if you don't mind -- that tells us about the UN contracting out the "weaponization of space" to the United States. Thank you.

"... MASERs as big as a space shuttle from russia called energia !"

Actually, the "Energia" is the main Russian family of boosters, fielded in the late eighties, capable of lifting 95-100 tons to 51-degree LEO, 18 tons to geostationary orbit, 32 tons to the lunar transfer, and 28 tons to Venus and Mars. They also have been used a lot recently to lift the "Progress" module to support the ISS which is pretty important now, what with theUS Space Shuttle fleet grounded.

They're great systems, not very fancy, but overengineered and reliable. But they're certainly not "MASERs"; just your garden-variety kerosene-and-liquid oxygen unit with four strap-on boosters.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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Advisor says:

"I am willing to bet that if every nation and the leaders of them came forward admitting to the things above, the majority would still not believe."

Who knows? I'm an engineer, not a sociologist.

"What is it going to take to convince the masses?"

Something that's not as silly as "chem-trails", for a start. That assertion is so outre and has been debunked so often by just about everyone that only the most hardcore devotees believe it any more. After four or five years of noise, no "chem-trail" believer has ever come up with any evidence for "chem-trails" whatsoever; and the evidence for there not being any such thing as "chem-trails" is simply overwhelming.

"The government is practically flaunting and flashing the proof in the face of the world, and still people choose to be ignorant of the possible."

Advisor, there is no proof; if there were, one of the "chem-trail" believers would have provided it long ago, right?

"I guess free will and choosing your ignorance go hand in hand, yeah yeah, mine too."

So it appears.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I fail to understand how someone can say 'this congressional bill mentions chem trails and extraterrestrial weapony' but doesn't quote that portion.

I mean, if its going to be discussed shouldn't it be put into the post?


Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(ii) chemtrails [...]

(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.


on the banning space weapons

PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE
The President shall--

(1) implement a permanent ban on space-based weapons of the United States and remove from space any existing space-based weapons of the United States

IE no satellite lasers or missle silos on orbital platforms or no mounting guns on the space shuttle and the like.


Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill

Honestly, that explains it all. Kucinich isn't saying 'yes, chemtrails exist', he's saying 'i know the conspiracy theory that everyone talks about, lets just make it illegal to use these hypothetical weapons"

Hell is Kucinich a poster to ATS? I mean, most people look at you cross eyed if you talk about contrails, he obviously has an interest like the people here.


I don't know if I understand your logic the right way, but are you saying that we could expect Kucinich to ask for a banning of meat to get a hand on all the vetetarian voters out there?

Will many voters not think that he is a bit kookoo when he brings up ET's, chemtrails etc? Will he not loose many votes in asking for this ban? Did you consider the other side of the coin in this matter?

Is it possible that this bill is a direct product of being briefed by the disclosure projects briefing team in 2001? They briefed congress too on the ET presence.

I know that most politicians are motivated by more votes, and that everything is a photo opportunity to them, but are all politicians alike?

Are aliens really the best way to get more votes I ask, and before you answer please take a look at the general publics reaction to the proclamation that ET's are real, well actually, just take a look at this "forum about aliens".


Sincerely

Cade

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Cade]



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 10:54 PM
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Please Cade, Stop with the conspiracy B.S. for a second.

Kucinich is an idiot. Unfortunately, we occaionally elect idiots to congress.

Read OTS's post above. He was around this when all of this went down. Kucinich let someone on his staff listen to Lorie Kramer. If you knew who she was in the chemtrial hoax back then, you would understand just how wacked out this whole thing is.

Kucinich was not "briefed" on anything.
That is actually pretty funny.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 11:12 PM
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Gazrok


Maybe Chem trails does make some sense. Maybe and I say maybe the the government screwed up about 50 yrs ago and now is trying to do something for our protection. They know that they can not disclouse at this time because it really is too late. Just A tought.


You may what to read the link from my latest post. You probably have. it will give some insight to my reaction to your response.


We will find the TRUTH FOR ALL.


[edit on 4-2-2005 by Truthforall]



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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If your ready to work against the call to attention of a supposed danger to the public, being wrong now also means being an accomplish to the crime.

If you call of the "wolf alarm", you must sleep with the memory of every man, woman or child it attacks if you are wrong and it is real.

You are sure there are no chemtrails, I am not either way, but I'm investigating.

Is the rhetoric in your posts, the invalidations, designed to affect my fear of seaming less intelligent if I think we are being sprayed?

You would be a lot more convincing if you gave critique of the substance and less ridicule of those who thinks otherwise than yourself.

Should I worry myself with fear of ridiculed? I am a chem-trailer!


Sincerely

Cade



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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Cade, OTS, myself and numerous others hve gone to great lengths to point out all of the flaws in the chemtrails theory.

We have pointed out that the phenomina of persistent contrails is perfectly consisten with long established scientific principles.

You can believe what you want. That doesn't change the fact that chemtrails are bunk.



posted on Feb, 4 2005 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
Please Cade, Stop with the conspiracy B.S. for a second.

Kucinich is an idiot. Unfortunately, we occaionally elect idiots to congress.

Read OTS's post above. He was around this when all of this went down. Kucinich let someone on his staff listen to Lorie Kramer. If you knew who she was in the chemtrial hoax back then, you would understand just how wacked out this whole thing is.

Kucinich was not "briefed" on anything.
That is actually pretty funny.


I'll stop believing in conspiracies if you yourself will stop believing in them, but that will be a topic of another thread all in itself. After all Bin Laden conspired against the US with his terrorists network in 2001. Saddam and his military conspired against the west to produce WMD.

I'm sure you are not amongst those ignorant masses out there who thinks the defenition of a "conspiracy" is cooking up any counter explanation to whatever the prominent officials say happened, so why would you ask of me what you do not ask of yourself?

A deaf ear and a blind eye is survival tip nr. 1 to the nationalist, defending his government against the people.

Why are we so much more concerned with recruiting more members for our own belief quorum as opposed to engaging in collective investigation of a proposed subjectmatter?

I think you can always tell when a poster has knowledge and when he substitutes it with hard language...even if he settles for the initials.

How about an exchange of the evidence that could point to chemtrails being true and the evidence pointing to them not being true?

I'm always ready to learn what I do not already know, cause it's the only path to more knowledge.



Sincerely

Cade



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 12:21 PM
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”If your ready to work against the call to attention of a supposed danger to the public, being wrong now also means being an accomplish to the crime.’

Nonsense. If I were wrong, it has nothing to do with “criminality”; it merely means I was wrong. But your point is moot; the supposed danger to the public simply isn’t. I would suggest that constant support of a hoax itself is a danger to the public, but that doesn’t make your activity a “crime”, either.

”If you call of the "wolf alarm", you must sleep with the memory of every man, woman or child it attacks if you are wrong and it is real.”

Don’t try to guilt people out because they disagree with you, Cade, it just comes across as mean and petty.

”You are sure there are no chemtrails, I am not either way, but I'm investigating.’

I have heard literally hundreds of “chem-trailers” say they are “investigating”, but when I ask how, it always turns out they are just going to conspiracy sites and cutting and pasting others’ posts. These posts, do not cite any evidence, but the typical “chem-trailer” assumes that, merely by cutting and pasting someone else’s opinion, he is somehow providing “evidence”.

That is simply not so.

If you really are “investigating” I would think you’d be getting a month-by-month subscription to the Flight Explorer real-time flight data acquisition program and actually the “chem-trails” in the skies above you to find out which aircraft is actually responsible for persistent contrails.

I would think you’d be using available weather data to find out the temperature at various altitudes to prove (or disprove) a correlation between available temperature/humidity data and the presence or absence of persistence in contrails.

I would think you’d be accessing real research sites and reviewing real journals written and juried by atmospheric scientists to find data that would support or negate your assertions.

I would think you would be involved, with all the other “chem-trail” researchers out there, in some sort of collection exercise to actually acquire in-situ contrails and send them to a reputable lab to evaluate and publish the results for all to see.

I would think you would consider taking a course in meteorology at your local junior college to actually find out the atmospheric mechanism of cloud and aerosol formation, basic enthalpy, supersaturation, the difference between evaporation and sublimation, etc.

But you haven’t done any of that “investigation”, Cade.

And neither has any other “chem-trailer”.

”Is the rhetoric in your posts, the invalidations, designed to affect my fear of seaming less intelligent if I think we are being sprayed?”

I couldn’t care less about your fears of looking foolish; and I’m certainly not looking at this as an exercise in rhetoric. I am trying to use common sense, logic, and what education I have (and that you could acquire, if you chose to) to show that the “chem-trail” assertions simply don’t make sense.

”You would be a lot more convincing if you gave critique of the substance and less ridicule of those who thinks otherwise than yourself.”

I suggest you look at my thread, called “The Chem-trail Hoax”; in particular my initial article, entitled “Six Reasons why Chem-Trails are a Hoax” and the subsequent series of posts. It is at www.abovetopsecret.com... and subsequent pages. In this thread, I did not ridicule the “chem-trailers” I showed why I believe that the whole “chem-trail” business is a hoax.

If you have not already read it, I propose that you do so.

If you disagree with my assertions, post back and show where you think I am in error. If you have any data or evidence that you think contradicts my assertions, please provide it.

”Why are we so much more concerned with recruiting more members for our own belief quorum as opposed to engaging in collective investigation of a proposed subjectmatter?’

I don’t believe that you are engaging in any collective investigation; at least, if you are, you have not shown anyone on this forum any evidence of doing so.

Cade, the whole business of “chem-tails” boils down to two sets of opposing belief:

(1) They exist
(2) They do not exist

My colleagues, like Mr. Roark, and I have posted extensively on why we believe they do not exist. We have shown that the most obvious and simple explanation for the formation of persistent contrails is because of dynamic atmospheric conditions which have been happening in our skies for the past billion or so years.

If you disagree, and believe that “chem-trails” do exist, then I propose that you come up with some sound reasoning and evidence that they do. I think one of the best ways you could do this is to pick apart my arguments at www.abovetopsecret.com... and respond right here.

Are you up to some real investigation?

”How about an exchange of the evidence that could point to chemtrails being true and the evidence pointing to them not being true?’

Excellent. Please proceed.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Cade
Did you consider the other side of the coin in this matter?

Wha? I don't understand. Kucinich is a little bit 'out there'. I have no idea as to why he is. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he beleived in chemstrails and the like, just as many members of the public beleive in them. Thats all I was saying.


Is it possible that this bill is a direct product of being briefed by the disclosure projects briefing team in 2001? They briefed congress too on the ET presence.

No, its not, because the bill has nothing to do with ETs, Kucinich says that his staff and not him put the chemtrails nad the like into it, and teh 'disclosure' people aren't taken seriously, and deservedly so.



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Perosnally, I have no clue as to the validity of the chemtrail theories.

Those who belive it is bunk illustrate some very good objective points as to the general ineffectiveness of volume spraying.

However, on the flipside, I grew up in an area that was subject to frequent spraying several times over teh course of several years in a effort to control Mediterranean Fruit Fly infestations.

Therefore, I have to believe that under certain conditions, aerosol/aerial spraying is in fact an effective method of distributing some things.

I also can attest to the effectiveness of realitively small dosages of biological agents. A very dear friend of mine died several years back as the result of a leptospirosis infection.

I knew nothing of leptospirosis until the post-mortem diagnosis.

A single, spirochette bacteria -- one, lone organism -- is all it took to take his life. They believed it entered his body orally while taking a shower. Two weeks later, his body was interred. So again, under certain circumstances, is a high volume particulate matter a necessary condition for distribution of an unkown agent? I'm not so sure.

Again, while I have no conviction one way or the other on the subject of chemtrails, I have enough first-hand knowledge from my own to not completely dismiss it quite yet.

And I ask: If such investigations were to be carried out on a voluntary basis by members of the private sector, what's the harm?


Even if the actual probability of controlled, government aerosol spraying programs was less than one tenth of one percent -- .01% -- given the potential consequences if it were indeed true, does common sense not dictate that it receive at least a cursory investigation, especially if it is done "off the clock" on a voluntary basis and doesn't cost the taxpayer a dollar?



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, it was an interesting read. You must forgive me, I had no idea you actually had written posts of substance within this subjectmatter and thank you for the link.


Originally posted by Off_The_Street
But you haven’t done any of that “investigation”, Cade.

And neither has any other “chem-trailer”.


I must say this is the first time I have ever met anyone who felt they knew better than myself what I have investigated and what I have not.
Is it arrogance, psychic abillity or perhaps simply a wild guess? and even more intriguing, is this how you acheive your conclusions on the subjectmatters you investigate too?

Conspiracies, bunk junk, crazy talk. Like I respectfully told "your colleague" (as you called him in one of your posts in another thread) Mr. HowardRoark, I'll stop believing in all those conspiracy gossip if you will. I will remind everyone who scuffs at the so called "conspiracy theorists" that all the major news agencies are also major conspiracy sites. In 2003 they went on and on about how Saddam was conspirering against the western world by developing WMD, ofcause all this noncense has been debunked many times since. To think the whole world believed it just goes to show how easy "out there" the public are when it comes to conspiracies.

I think your right about my point on the criminality in reassuring the public. It was mostly meant as a reminder for what is at stake so none of us take the subject lightly. However, I think the whole world blamed as much the German chansellor for what he did in the 40's as they blame the German population for what they let happen in their government.

The paranoid Mr. Goof who feels everything is a conspiracy is as big a fool as the nimwit who denies their existance. Learn from history, or repeat it.

I am no scientist, nor am I an educated person. I always tell people this with a smile on my face, knowing IQ and Knowledge has been mistaken to be one and the same for as long as the intellectual image has been around.

Right now I'm chewing my way through a lecture I have on the chemtrail subject. The lecturer is a converged skeptic, which makes it interesting. So far the most disturbing information is the collected substance containing dried red blood cells amongst other even less pleasant biological chemicals from a too low flyover of an alleged chemtrail airplane.

When the election in my country is over I'll be curious to hear the rest of this seminar.

Thank you for the link to your thread about the science in chemtrails:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I found little science on chemtrails but a lot of speculation on secrecy. I do however respect the fact that you are trying to use your sence of logic to come to a sensible conclusion on the matter, but I hope you will allow me to add another angle and see if your logic stands. Often two brains work better than one, so let's collaborate on this. I'll be posting there in a short while.

"Laughter and ridicule becomes an oasis from the mind challenging subjects, man, to his deep dispair, discovers he does not understand."
-- Brian Zebeaune



Sincerely

Cade



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by Cade

Right now I'm chewing my way through a lecture I have on the chemtrail subject. The lecturer is a converged skeptic, which makes it interesting. So far the most disturbing information is the collected substance containing dried red blood cells amongst other even less pleasant biological chemicals from a too low flyover of an alleged chemtrail airplane.



So, Who'd you buy the video from, Cliff Carnicom or Will Thomas, and how much did it cost you?




Oh, and BTW, as for the "dried blood cells" bit. Do yourself a favor and read up on eletctrolytes and osmatic pressure in human cells before you buy into that B.S.

[edit on 5-2-2005 by HowardRoark]



posted on Feb, 5 2005 @ 11:12 PM
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”I must say this is the first time I have ever met anyone who felt they knew better than myself what I have investigated and what I have not. Is it arrogance, psychic abillity or perhaps simply a wild guess? and even more intriguing, is this how you acheive your conclusions on the subjectmatters you investigate too?”

None of the above. It was based on what I read -- or, in your case, didn’t read. If you have done any serious research on “chem-trails”, I invite you to share it with us.

If you have not done any research, I invite you to start.

”Right now I'm chewing my way through a lecture I have on the chemtrail subject. The lecturer is a converged skeptic, which makes it interesting. So far the most disturbing information is the collected substance containing dried red blood cells amongst other even less pleasant biological chemicals from a too low flyover of an alleged chemtrail airplane.”

I assume you’re talking about some of the stuff from Carnicom’s 2001 and 2002 posts. If such is the case, I suggest that you question several basic facts that seem to be overlooked in many of these “collections”, including the fact that they were found on the ground, so there is no evidence at all that they came from the air (never mind from “chem-trails”). You might also want to find the name of the independent laboratory that did the studies on the “red blood cells”, and the chain of custody that is required for any serious research collection.

If you’re looking at the Therese Aigner “study”, I would be more than happy to point out all the flaws in it just like I did in 2002. This, by the way, is why I am no longer welcome at some of the “chem-trail” “research” sites. It seems that “research” is good only if you agree with the “chem-trailers” pre-conceived notions.

Regardless of where you got the information, though, I invite you to share it with us.

”Thank you for the link to your thread about the science in chemtrails:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


You are more than welcome. I am always ready to share any sources I have; if I try to cover up anything at all, I will lose any credibility I have.

”I found little science on chemtrails but a lot of speculation on secrecy. I do however respect the fact that you are trying to use your sence of logic to come to a sensible conclusion on the matter, but I hope you will allow me to add another angle and see if your logic stands.”

I look forward to your comments and collaboration. Feel free to post them at any time; or, you may U2U me, e-mail me at duncankunz@NOSPAMcox.net or duncan.z.kunz@NOSPAMboeing.com; or call me at 480-329-1359 (although, since I assume you are not from the US, such a call would be expensive).




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