Oregon may allow drivers to choose nonbinary, rather than male or female, for licenses

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

As far as your first post above (ETA: on the previous page) I could care less as well, they want a non-Binary on their license more power to them.

Your second post nailed my feelings to a "T".

On the other hand, some people have to sit and talk about things as part of their process. To me this is annoying as all hell, as im not a "lets sit and talk about your feelings" kind of guy, as our feelings really only matter to us for the most part. Although this feeling on my part is usually reviled by people who disagree and get angry. To get angry at me for feeling that I don't care about your feelings is not caring about my feelings and creates a vortex of irony.

I couldn't agree more, do as you please, just spare me the # drama please, because I DONT CARE what you do.

I guess its better for me to just ignore the various people that annoy me throughout the day, the annoying things my loved ones do, and try to reduce my overall frustration with the world. Honestly, this nihilistic phase im in comes and goes in response to the BS that seems to waft in and out of social consciousness...so who knows how ill feel in another month. But today i'd say i don't care about people who believe or feel something, so long as they don't care that im going to be oblivious of it.

I have been trying to practice this much more as of late.

I really try not to get involved in political threads anymore for the reason you stated. I have found my overall frustration with the world is VASTLY reduced when I pay no attention, and TBH really don't care, about political BS.

Thanks for your post BFFT.

a reply to: seasonal

Oregon may soon become the first U.S. state to allow residents to identify as "nonbinary," neither male nor female, on their driver licenses and identification cards.

Would it not be easier to just drop the gender checkbox altogether, as the information is worthless anyway,if you can choose freely what to register as?

a reply to: stosh64

Honestly, i don't think the public participating in the political workings of our country on a daily basis makes any difference.

The major levers to change political course are public outrage. And the public is only outraged at what the idiot box tells them to be outraged over. If we turned off the idiot boxes and ignored "media" (a word used to denote not only news, but any form of "entertainment" ) we would likely rediscover a quality of life and depth of experience forgotten about by the majority of folks caught up in the daily grind.

Your attention is monetized. Ponder that for a minute.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Your attention is monetized. Ponder that for a minute.

I do realize that, most of the time. It is nice to be reminded occasionally though.

Even regarding the video that you responded to initially, thanks

Question: How are we to describe a gender non-binary person to an officer if they ever become a suspect in a crime?

I can't look at him/her and know I am seeing "gender non-binary" so I'm naturally going to say he looked like a white male, about 5'5" or whatever ...

What does the cop do?

originally posted by: Mordekaiser

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xeven
Sex is not a mental decision or choice.

What about people who are born intersex?

Then and only then are they the exception.

Them and only them? Hardly. More like the go-to.

Biologically speaking there are like a minimum of 10 different conditions that aren't 'so cut and clear'.

Chromosome abnormalities alone, it's obviously not limited to XY/XX as often stated, X0/XX/XXX/XXXX/XY/XXY/XXXXY/XYY/XXYY are all possible combinations, and this isn't including various other issues in development itself. Men just being born without testicles or penis happens, or females with lack of working organs. There are more than one of these conditions.

People that think standard chromosomes characterize gender too don't understand hormones often. As example, a genetic women (XX) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia produced unusually high levels of virilizing hormones in utero and developed stereotypically masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.

Similarly, genetic men (XY) with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome don’t respond to male hormones and fail to develop masculine sexual characteristics. Most live their lives as women. Some historians suggest that Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I and Wallis Simpson all suffered from this syndrome.

i hear what your saying, so why the huge cry for equality ?

originally posted by: stosh64

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: seasonal

originally posted by: scubagravy
a reply to: seasonal

Just wonderin, are you guys alright over there in the Land of the free .....

becoming comedy central.

What?

You know what .....

The typical american lets start a fad, be the first, push ridiculous ideas and make them reality, thats what,

It's becoming a joke, this whole gender crap is a farce.

"boys have a penis, girls have a vagina" That's all that's needed to know.

BTW, this is not a personal attack on you, i am pointing out the BS that your population swim in day in day out.You can see it....cant you ?

You may appreciate the "Drunken Uncles" take on the decent into psychosis.

Warning: NSFW, contains language and opinions some may find offensive. Or hilariously spot on.

Hahaha, Sees Black and White like i do .

a reply to: scubagravy

Agree wholeheartedly. Only America could take something with such a simple answer: "the number is 2", and complicate it into the steaming pile of foolishness we're hearing now all because of the ridiculous "I have to be special" mentality.

a reply to: ketsuko

anyone who would take the time to worry about that designation would likely find it irresistable to leave that label unchallenged. It could be like a bait that brings the person out.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: seasonal

originally posted by: scubagravy
a reply to: seasonal

Just wonderin, are you guys alright over there in the Land of the free .....

becoming comedy central.

What?

You know what .....

The typical american lets start a fad, be the first, push ridiculous ideas and make them reality, thats what,

It's becoming a joke, this whole gender crap is a farce.

"boys have a penis, girls have a vagina" That's all that's needed to know.

It's more complicated than that since you can tack one on or cut one off and punch a hole these days. I would suggest a better definition is you have or do not have an "X" chromosome in every cell in your body. If you do, you're a male and if you don't, you are a female. Anything else is a mental fantasy and delusion, hormone shots notwithstanding. I absolutely agree with you. The whole thing is a farce.

UHH... you failed genetics.

It's not an X chromosome that you refer to, and you're pretty wrong besides that - see this post:

originally posted by: Mordekaiser

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xeven
Sex is not a mental decision or choice.

What about people who are born intersex?

Then and only then are they the exception.

Them and only them? Hardly. More like the go-to.

Biologically speaking there are like a minimum of 10 different conditions that aren't 'so cut and clear'.

Chromosome abnormalities alone, it's obviously not limited to XY/XX as often stated, X0/XX/XXX/XXXX/XY/XXY/XXXXY/XYY/XXYY are all possible combinations, and this isn't including various other issues in development itself. Men just being born without testicles or penis happens, or females with lack of working organs. There are more than one of these conditions.

People that think standard chromosomes characterize gender too don't understand hormones often. As example, a genetic women (XX) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia produced unusually high levels of virilizing hormones in utero and developed stereotypically masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.

Similarly, genetic men (XY) with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome don’t respond to male hormones and fail to develop masculine sexual characteristics. Most live their lives as women. Some historians suggest that Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I and Wallis Simpson all suffered from this syndrome.

This nails it perfectly.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xeven
Sex is not a mental decision or choice.

What about people who are born intersex?

Then they are both sexes.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

haha 'steaming pile', It is crazy to think where this is all headed. At one stage i was thinking about Cryogenics, but i'm not sure i want to see what coming.

Thanks Burdman.

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: Mordekaiser

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xeven
Sex is not a mental decision or choice.

What about people who are born intersex?

Then and only then are they the exception.

Them and only them? Hardly. More like the go-to.

Biologically speaking there are like a minimum of 10 different conditions that aren't 'so cut and clear'.

Chromosome abnormalities alone, it's obviously not limited to XY/XX as often stated, X0/XX/XXX/XXXX/XY/XXY/XXXXY/XYY/XXYY are all possible combinations, and this isn't including various other issues in development itself. Men just being born without testicles or penis happens, or females with lack of working organs. There are more than one of these conditions.

People that think standard chromosomes characterize gender too don't understand hormones often. As example, a genetic women (XX) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia produced unusually high levels of virilizing hormones in utero and developed stereotypically masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.

Similarly, genetic men (XY) with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome don’t respond to male hormones and fail to develop masculine sexual characteristics. Most live their lives as women. Some historians suggest that Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I and Wallis Simpson all suffered from this syndrome.

i hear what your saying, so why the huge cry for equality ?

What? I'm just blasting apart your theory only intersex people suffer.

The equality part is a non-issue anyway. Unless you're going to protest people being allowed to express themselves. Is ANYONE actually AGAINST it? Other than for their poorly formed moral reasons? A legitimate reason?

originally posted by: Mordekaiser

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: Mordekaiser

originally posted by: scubagravy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xeven
Sex is not a mental decision or choice.

What about people who are born intersex?

Then and only then are they the exception.

Them and only them? Hardly. More like the go-to.

Biologically speaking there are like a minimum of 10 different conditions that aren't 'so cut and clear'.

Chromosome abnormalities alone, it's obviously not limited to XY/XX as often stated, X0/XX/XXX/XXXX/XY/XXY/XXXXY/XYY/XXYY are all possible combinations, and this isn't including various other issues in development itself. Men just being born without testicles or penis happens, or females with lack of working organs. There are more than one of these conditions.

People that think standard chromosomes characterize gender too don't understand hormones often. As example, a genetic women (XX) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia produced unusually high levels of virilizing hormones in utero and developed stereotypically masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.

Similarly, genetic men (XY) with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome don’t respond to male hormones and fail to develop masculine sexual characteristics. Most live their lives as women. Some historians suggest that Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I and Wallis Simpson all suffered from this syndrome.

i hear what your saying, so why the huge cry for equality ?

What? I'm just blasting apart your theory only intersex people suffer.

The equality part is a non-issue anyway. Unless you're going to protest people being allowed to express themselves. Is ANYONE actually AGAINST it? Other than for their poorly formed moral reasons? A legitimate reason?

My comment about the huge cry for equality was directed at the masses, portrayed by the media and seen around us. Not directed at you. This is all im going to contribute to this thread because quite frankly i don't see any substance in it other than people seeking attention to the fact they feel they are not like the rest of us.

This whole debacle stems from that stupid toilet sign debacle from last year....which started in America also.

I believe MONSANTO may be having a bigger effect on Americas population than ever.

a reply to: scubagravy

Attention is only valid with validation.

This literally doesn't actually matter to you unless you know a person that is going to invade your space to show you their bi gender licence.

Your gripe seems as arbitrary as the 'victory'. This is like on the level of acceptable licences plates to me.

originally posted by: seasonal

After winning in court, Shupe's lawyer sent the Multnomah County judge's order to Oregon's motor vehicles department. Legally, Shupe was neither male nor female, and Shupe wanted a driver license that reflected that.

Oregon may allow for a "nonbinary" ID instead of the male and female that is presently on drivers licenses.

Oregon may soon become the first U.S. state to allow residents to identify as "nonbinary," neither male nor female, on their driver licenses and identification cards.

www.oregonlive.com...

Transgender Oregonians say this will validate their identities. Dept of motor vehicles has no problem with the change.

Transgender Oregonians say the change would validate their identities and make them safer as they hand over their licenses at restaurants, health clinics and airports. Oregon Department of Motor Vehicles officials say they have had no opposition to the change, which they first announced plans to carry out last summer.

This will stop a system that is forcing people to "intersex". Trans and nonbinary people can make a choice now if male or female does not fit them. Shupe said (being trans) It is like making a mixed race kid identify as a white kid, and have a Dr. force them to be white.

"We have a system in much of this nation that is forcing intersex, transgender and nonbinary people to make a choice between male or female, when it doesn't fit them or accurately describe them," Shupe said. "In the case of people like me, it's like making a mixed-race kid identify as white, and pretend to be white and have the doctors trying to make them white.

I guess they are going to have to do away with sexual harassment suits now....

originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xeven
Sex is not a mental decision or choice.

What about people who are born intersex?

Then they are both sexes.

So you agree that sex & gender are non binary then?

Y'know, if it makes someone happier in their life? Let 'em. I've more important things to worry about.

Male. Female. Not. What ever.

I'm not sure why this is such a big deal. But then again, I don't waste a whole lot of time thinking on this subject.