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Far-left Progressivism

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posted on May, 9 2017 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: joemoe

It's too bad Hillary stole the primaries away from Sanders. It would have been much more fun debates.




posted on May, 9 2017 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

So 100 anecdotes of coal miners being happy with Trump is more credible than my data showing that the coal industry has been on a decline for longer than even Obama's Presidency?



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Great OP; well thought out and delivered. I wish I had the patience to offer up something as good.

My thoughts on the subject are that in the US, none of it really matters anymore. All that matters is the orientation of the MSM and they're definitely aligned with the Leftists and the SJW Cultural Marxists. They create and maintain the "reality", (fictional) themes that drive the masses. Its just as Mika (whatshername) said on MSNBC, "Its always been the responsibility of the Media to tell people what they're supposed to think", (or words to that effect).

The reason why it doesn't matter what anybody's beliefs are is because, for all practical purposes, the MSM is the only voice in the room; they entirely control the narrative; they control all of the "news" outlets from the NYT to the LA Times, USA Today, CSM, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, etc.....................ALL of it, with the possible exception of Fox which is going down the crapper.

So.......at the end of the day, regardless of your beliefs, your gonna get what they dish up and that'll ring true after Trump's done, and probably at the end of only one term. Oh, and don't forget, you can vote for an R and get a D in the final analysis. Which is to say, that for all practical intents and purposes, voting is utterly pointless because you have no idea what you will end up with. As my wife has repeatedly pointed out, voting is pointless until they entirely revamp the system. As Forrest would say, "Voting's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get".

I'm neither an R or a D and I don't have a political philosophy, but I am beginning to look at Chaos Theory as a possible game changer. To the extent that the Leftists/Cultural Marxists win, they will so thoroughly break the system that it will doubtless implode and therein lies the only true path for ultimate reform.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well I don't think it was simple anecdotes, the trucks are running more, they are working more hours, more people are getting into the industry, at least in that particular area. There's no doubt that revitalization was spurred by Trump whether you want to accept it or not. Also I don't doubt the coal industry has been declining for a long time, even before Obama got into office, but Obama clearly did not help the situation he only made it worse, and very purposefully.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Barring redefining words, what is reversed?


To be fair, I think that single grey bubble deserves to be on the left side as well.


In other words change definitions. Are you talking about Berkeley Antifa?



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: FuggleHop
a reply to: ChaoticOrder




You've got extremes on both sides who can be narrow-minded a-holes. You've also got reasonable people on both sides who can have decent discussions, although it is very rare that either side will change their mind much as a result of those discussions. That's just the way it goes.

A very sensible point any ideology or political group is going to have it's share of extremist even though they are on opposite sides of the so called political spectrum there reaction to each other is similar in behavior.


.........." liberal leftys are so insane" ........"right wingers are wingnut bigots.".......
Yawn The more I hear these tired left vs right talking points regurgitated over and over the more I am happy to identify as an independent.
edit on 9-5-2017 by SolAquarius because: GREMLINS!



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

Antifa vs. Neo-Nazis, both on the opposing sides.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well I don't think it was simple anecdotes, the trucks are running more, they are working more hours, more people are getting into the industry, at least in that particular area

Simple or complex. They are still anecdotes. You have yet to provide me with any hard data. Just feelings of a handful of workers throughout the country. Not even most of them (and DEFINITELY not a valid statistical sampling of them).


There's no doubt that revitalization was spurred by Trump whether you want to accept it or not. Also I don't doubt the coal industry has been declining for a long time, even before Obama got into office, but Obama clearly did not help the situation he only made it worse, and very purposefully.

I've actually already written a thread on this very topic, but I really don't like linking to my own material to source. However, at this point it should at the least be introduced to the discussion. Plus my thread has a handy graph in it that shows "Obama's effect" on the coal industry. I posted it below too

edit on 9-5-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder





posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

How am I changing the definition?

I see the word facists/facism and believe it belongs to not only the far right, but also the far left.

And no I'm not taking about Antifa at all, I'm talking about the entire "left" movement, but I already know you will disagree with that assertion.

These are only my opinions.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

The topic is "far-left progressivism", not the entire left.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

There's little difference in the 2 if you see what I see.

But what do I know..



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:29 AM
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Plus my thread has a handy graph in it that shows "Obama's effect" on the coal industry. I posted it below too

Well call me crazy but I don't really see any downward trend before 08... after 08 though, yeah I can see that. However I will accept your point because I agree coal usage is in decline due to other sources of energy. That does not mean however there is no place for coal and we should just totally screw over everyone in the coal industry. It's still a very important way of generating energy, in fact here in Australia it's our main method of energy generation and has been for a long time, we're also one of the top coal exporters in the world.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: knowledgehunter0986

Like there's little difference in the right and Westboro Baptist Church and Neo-Nazis?

But what do I know..



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Well call me crazy but I don't really see any downward trend before 08

That wasn't the only graph from my thread either. Here's the other:

That one tracks Coal jobs since 1990.

That does not mean however there is no place for coal and we should just totally screw over everyone in the coal industry.

I never made this argument, but there is something else that my article points out. That there is an excess supply of coal in the American market. Too many producers and not enough consumers.

“Promises to create more coal jobs will not be kept — indeed the industry will continue to cut payrolls,” the group said in its 2017 U.S. Coal Outlook. “These losses will be related in part to the coal industry’s long-term business model of producing more coal with fewer workers.”

The industry has a fundamental problem it has not addressed even as businesses fail, the IEEFA said: “Too many companies are still mining too much coal for too few customers.”

Also reflected in the source article for that OP.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You're ideologically conflicted is what you are. Here are a couple examples of your cognitive dissonance:

You go on about the virtues of capitalism. You claim to be pro-free markets and libertarian leaning. Then you go on about globalism. Free market capitalism — global trade — and globalism are inextricably intertwined.

Next up you go on about nationalism and pride in one's culture and then immediately go on to attack "collectivism" because ostensibly, you have such a love of individualism. I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I'm going to cite the Atlas Society:


Answer: Nationalism is the doctrine that a unitary cultural and political entity, the nation, should be the organizing principle of society. Particular nationalisms (you mention British nationalism) hold that one nation ought to be promoted and defended, as against international influences and individual choice. Nationalism assumes that a person is defined by his language and the history of the place where he is born. Objectivism defends the rational individual and rejects nationalism as an irrational collectivist doctrine. In fact, nationalism is a sophisticated form of tribalism.


Nationalism is collectivism.

I don't really feel inspired to address the rest of this mess except to say that very very very very few people on the Left are communists. Also, NK is only nominally communist. It's a totalitarian familial autocracy with elements of Stalinism. One thing you did seem to get right is the authoritarian worship of leaders. That pretty much sums up Trumpkins. It also explains Trump's fascination with authoritarian leaders. Are Trump and his followers Leftists? Hardly.



edit on 2017-5-9 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I completely agree with everything you've said. You can always tell when someone is well-read by what they post. Smart people are cool. Their avatar pics have cool hats.


edit on 9-5-2017 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


You claim to be pro-free markets and libertarian leaning. Then you go on about globalism. Free market capitalism — global trade — and globalism are inextricably intertwined.

As mentioned previously in this thread by others, globalism and globalization are not the same thing, I have nothing against global trade. And as I stated a page or two ago, I'm using the term globalist more in the sense of some one who would promote a borderless EU in preference of separate nations. Someone who promotes a one world government or someone like Macron for example, who chooses to appear at his victory speech playing the EU anthem instead of his own national anthem.


Next up you go on about nationalism and pride in one's culture and then immediately go on to attack "collectivism" because ostensibly, you have such a love of individualism.
-
Nationalism is collectivism.

Nationalism encourages individual nations to stay separate and decentralized, rather than merging into a one world government, which is the end result of globalism and an extreme form of collectivism. Also I'm not talking about extreme forms of nationalism and I made that very clear, I said some degree of nationalism is perfectly healthy but it can easily be taken too far. In reality I have very little care about where I was born and don't care for displays of national pride, I think it's silly and I think we are defined by the people we choose to be rather than where we were born.

However I'm not going to go around trying to say people are fascists because they want to have some pride in the nation and wave their flag around a little bit. Who am I to deprive them of that or make them feel bad about themselves because they want to celebrate their nation and culture? As long as they don't take it to extremes and take it into racist territory then I say let them be. Of course I can see why excessive nationalism can lead to excessive collectivism, but I think everything in life is about balance, and the people who cannot see that are the people in the extremes.


I don't really feel inspired to address the rest of this mess except to say that very very very very few people on the Left are communists

Where have I said most people on the left are communists?


One thing you did seem to get right is the authoritarian worship of leaders. That pretty much sums up Trumpkins.

Not sure if you're calling me a "Trumpkin" but you're not the first in this thread. Yeah I'm so biased towards one view of Trump I write threads like this:

Donald Trump: Imperialistic Authoritarian?

Trump Won't Be Cancelling World War 3 After All
edit on 9/5/2017 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: joemoe
I agree 100%, but then I live in Knoxville. On a second note, I would like to see medical marijuana approved nationwide.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: ErrorErrorError

Well I'm not American but what you say isn't wrong and I do find it very hypocritical, but you have to understand people don't have much control over what the puppet master choose to do.


I understand that people don't have much choice but I find it laughable that so many whine about "globalism" yet they have so many financial benefits of it .


Do they? Do they really? Why do you think so many of the former factory workers voted against globalism and for Trump who's platform was essentially much more nationalist? You would think that wouldn't have happened if they were reaping the benefits of economic globalism.



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