Far-left Progressivism

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Attacking the press like he is doing is an assault on the 1st Amendment's protections of free press you know? Interesting to see a declared Libertarian celebrating an attack on the free press.

It's called criticism. It's not like he's censoring them or throwing molotovs throught their windows. Laughable point.

You don't say?
Donald Trump: We're going to 'open up' libel laws
Laughable indeed.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Attacking the press like he is doing is an assault on the 1st Amendment's protections of free press you know? Interesting to see a declared Libertarian celebrating an attack on the free press.

It's called criticism. It's not like he's censoring them or throwing molotovs throught their windows. Laughable point.

You don't say?
Donald Trump: We're going to 'open up' libel laws
Laughable indeed.

Uh oh he said something that one time. Attack on the first amendment! Sorry, no.

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Attacking the press like he is doing is an assault on the 1st Amendment's protections of free press you know? Interesting to see a declared Libertarian celebrating an attack on the free press.

It's called criticism. It's not like he's censoring them or throwing molotovs throught their windows. Laughable point.

You don't say?
Donald Trump: We're going to 'open up' libel laws
Laughable indeed.

Uh oh he said something that one time. Attack on the first amendment! Sorry, no.

No more so then pretending like liberals have ever attacked the first Amendment during Obama's years or even now. In fact, I'd say that Trump's threat is more credible since he can actually follow through legally on repressing our rights.

Careful buddy, your double standard is showing.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Attacking the press like he is doing is an assault on the 1st Amendment's protections of free press you know? Interesting to see a declared Libertarian celebrating an attack on the free press.

It's called criticism. It's not like he's censoring them or throwing molotovs throught their windows. Laughable point.

You don't say?
Donald Trump: We're going to 'open up' libel laws
Laughable indeed.

Uh oh he said something that one time. Attack on the first amendment! Sorry, no.

No more so then pretending like liberals have ever attacked the first Amendment during Obama's years or even now.

That's no excuse for such an absurd statement.

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Attacking the press like he is doing is an assault on the 1st Amendment's protections of free press you know? Interesting to see a declared Libertarian celebrating an attack on the free press.

It's called criticism. It's not like he's censoring them or throwing molotovs throught their windows. Laughable point.

You don't say?
Donald Trump: We're going to 'open up' libel laws
Laughable indeed.

Uh oh he said something that one time. Attack on the first amendment! Sorry, no.

No more so then pretending like liberals have ever attacked the first Amendment during Obama's years or even now.

That's no excuse for such an absurd statement.

Cry me a river. If I ever see you calling out liberals for attacking the 1st. I'll be sure to link you to this post.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Attacking the press like he is doing is an assault on the 1st Amendment's protections of free press you know? Interesting to see a declared Libertarian celebrating an attack on the free press.

It's called criticism. It's not like he's censoring them or throwing molotovs throught their windows. Laughable point.

You don't say?
Donald Trump: We're going to 'open up' libel laws
Laughable indeed.

Uh oh he said something that one time. Attack on the first amendment! Sorry, no.

No more so then pretending like liberals have ever attacked the first Amendment during Obama's years or even now.

That's no excuse for such an absurd statement.

Cry me a river.

I prefer pointing out the laughable lies. Better be careful or you'll get hit by a libel suit.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Just because you know liberals who are anti-pot doesn't mean that is a staple belief of liberals. Stop with the some to all fallacies please.

I don't believe I said it was a staple beliefs of liberals, I agreed with you that the left is probably more sane on this issue. I was pointing out how a large portion of liberals are against legalization, which the charts you just provided show very clearly.

No he hasn't.

That article seems like personal opinion to me. I saw an ABC report only a few weeks ago where they interviewed people from coal mining towns talking about how their industry was booming since Trump got in, how the coal trucks have started running in much higher numbers, etc. I've barely seen ABC say one good thing about Trump, and even they seemed to be praising him on this issue. It seems to me you simply cannot accept the idea that Trump can do anything good, to you everything he does is automatically a failure.

Attacking the press like he is doing is an assault on the 1st Amendment's protections of free press you know? Interesting to see a declared Libertarian celebrating an attack on the free press.

I don't see calling out lies the same as suppressing the free press. I still see all the major leftist MSM outlets operating at full capacity, pumping out propaganda on a daily basis. If Trump was trying to censor their opinion than of course I would be against it, but I have absolutely no issue with calling a scum bag a scum bag when I know that's exactly what they are.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I don't believe I said it was a staple beliefs of liberals, I agreed with you that the left is probably more sane on this issue. I was pointing out how a large portion of liberals are against legalization, which the charts you just provided show very clearly.

And I'm saying that going by the laws of statistics that if 65% of liberals want pot legalized then that must mean that 35% of liberals don't want it legalized. Thus it shouldn't surprising when someone points out an anecdote of a liberal being against legalization.

That article seems like personal opinion to me. I saw an ABC report only a few weeks ago where they interviewed people from coal mining towns talking about how their industry was booming since Trump got in, how the coal trucks have started running in much higher numbers, etc. I've barely seen ABC say one good thing about Trump, and even they seemed to be praising him on this issue. It seems to me you simply cannot accept the idea that Trump can do anything good, to you everything he does is automatically a failure.

Errr... Not only is that ALSO a personal opinion but you don't even have a source to prove this interview happened.

Coal is dying. There is NOTHING Trump can do about it.
A Bleak Outlook for Trump’s Promises to Coal Miners

And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.

Coal’s long decline predates President Obama’s arrival in the White House in 2009. The collapse of the American steel industry in late 20th century reduced demand for the metallurgical coal that is mined most prominently in Appalachia.

In addition, utilities have been slow to build new coal-fired power plants in recent decades because of air-quality concerns over the burning of the other type of coal — thermal coal — that is used for power plants and is mined across the country.

Those aren't opinions.

I don't see calling out lies the same as suppressing the free press. I still see all the major leftist MSM outlets operating at full capacity, pumping out propaganda on a daily basis. If Trump was trying to censor their opinion than of course I would be against it, but I have absolutely no issue with calling a scum bag a scum bag when I know that's exactly what they are.

How do you feel about his opinion on opening up libel laws then?

a reply to: dfnj2015

The problem is not having too much government. The problem is having too much corrupt government.

Government are made by people and people in general are not incorruptible "Power corrupts". I really do not think more government will solve anything, we can set up a fair and just government today and overtime it will be corrupt. There is no instance in history where this does not occur. Therefore the best way to limit this is to try the best as possible to give as much power as possible to the "people", and hope that they are smart enough when the times comes to topple a government when needed.

You say self reliance is

JUST NOT POSSIBLE

I disagree! We may not have a perfect system and yes corporations do take advantage of the system (something i think we should fix). But self reliance, is definitely possible even under these conditions. I came from a family with many immigrants and none of them have ever subsisted on welfare. Those that came here worked their butts off and their children got an education and are now professionals or own businesses. This country (US) gave them opportunities that they would not have in their socialist or communist countries they migrated from. Heck many of them would be dead if they did not migrate.

Sure there will be income equality (this even exist in socialist countries where cronies of the government get rich) but we should not be asking for that. Income equality = communism. In this country if you work (sometimes willing to do hard work) you can make a living.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

, but I have absolutely no issue with calling a scum bag a scum bag when I know that's exactly what they are.

See your disconnect.....

www.washingtonpost.com... 47eeed4_story.html?utm_term=.f56107eab42b

www.theguardian.com...

Your defense of Trump rings hollow when you disregard this fact.

Do you think a scumbag changes just because he gets elected president?

a reply to: dfnj2015

The problem is not having too much government. The problem is having too much corrupt government.

I would say that having too much government or too much corrupt government are both bad things.

The average worker making the median worker's wage cannot compete with laissez faire capitalist forces passing legislation creating cartels and monopolies. What we have in this country is COMPLETE control of the government by corporations through lobbyists.

I agree the issue is the corruption and government sponsored monopolies because they undermine the free market. We shouldn't automatically assume that capitalism doesn't work and jump straight into extreme forms of socialism which attempt to enforce equality. Instead we should try to minimize corruption and government collusion to create a more even distribution of wealth. Start your own business and pay your employees more fairly if you think most business owners are too greedy. There are many things we can do reduce equality without forcefully redistributing wealth.

Can't just classify people as left or right. It just doesn't work.

How about a right leaning (apparently) libertarian anarchist. Far left extreme with right leaning views. Except authority. I hate being told how to live/think/be. I like money. I like free speech. I like clean air (and cars/trucks). Everyone should be allowed guns/weed/privacy. Everyone should have access to health care and good education or you end up with too many sick stupid people. I like coffee and chocolate therefore we do need world trade. Which is globalism with strong borders.

Seems different countries even have differing opinions on the political spectrum.

This left/right thing is really confusing ....more so every day.
Especially for far left/right/centrists.

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: dfnj2015

Technology should be use to free us and make us more self sufficient, not to enslave us (especially free us from an overbearing government).

btw, thanks for responding to my posts. I very much appreciate your views.

So I mentioned the book Power and Technology by David Kipnis. Like you, I am a technologist and I believe in the power of technology. As I told you this book has haunted me my whole life. Here is the quote that haunts me:

In the words of Jose Ortega y Gasset: "Technology provides men the leisure to realize their true potential" This, then, is the promise of technology: a material world of plenty and a spiritual world in which we have the leisure to realize our highest potentials and the freedom to contemplate God.

Yet in nagging counterpoint to this optimism about the beneficent world of plenty provided by unlimited power is the suspicion that technology has another face. There is a world in which the freedom to choose and to control evens has been subtly altered so that there is less choice and less control. This is the world of "megatechnics," to use Lewis Mumford's apt phrasing, in which technology concentrates power and reduces individual choice.

So my whole life is a lie and futile. Here I thought my many years of working on technology was a noble effort. I thought I was helping my people have more power over their lives. But my whole life I've been actually working against the interest of my people. My life is nothing about what I intended. All I've done is create economic slavery for the people I love. I hate this book. I wish I never read it. It haunts me everyday.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I disagree there. Communists now are more anarchist than statist. They're still collectivist obviously but do not want states telling them how they can and can't be collectives or what they can and can't do in order to thrive.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Technology have no feeling or does it know right or wrong. Yes technology can be use for evil but it can also be use for good. If you feel hopeless by reading one book, I would say that you are too easily swayed. Like firearms it is the person behind the technology that determines whether it will do good or ill.

a reply to: Kali74

You are too smart for me to disagree with. I just like the breadline quote.

a reply to: joemoe

I didn't say I feel helpless. I said I am haunted by it. I make crap loads of money. Almost enough where I can vote Republican.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

you don't even have a source to prove this interview happened.

Well it was a report on the nightly news and not online, so not surprisingly it's difficult to find. However I did manage to find a video from ABC which was uploaded around the same time I saw the report and it shows a small portion of the report I saw. In the full report the guy they interview talks about how the trucks have started running much more often but I cannot find that particular part of the interview. They also do interviews with other guys, including a guy who was a coal mining instructor or something like that, who says he has gone from having virtually no students to having a full classroom.

Trump 100: Coal miners happy with the President

a reply to: joemoe

I agree with your points.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Bah ... there's many poor people who voted Republicans. To me, I am an independent but I voted Trump because I hated Hillary much more. There was no other choice.