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Circumcising kids or altering them hormonally. Which is worse and why?

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posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:18 AM
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originally posted by: ofnoaccount
Well, I was circumcised and don't mind it. In fact looking at pictures of the uncircumcised, both my wife and I agree, the former looks better. And been married for a long time, and perfectly satisfied with our sex life.

I don't see the big issue people make over it.


When you pull back the foreskin, like one would do prior to sex you can't tell the difference.

The big problem is, that circumcisions are a religious thing. They are not medically necessary, unless in cases where lazy parents improperly take care of their baby/child's genitals. A circumcised penis has less sensitivity than uncircumcised making sex not as pleasurable that the latter. The child should have a choice unless it is medically necessary.

The big one is that, in fact, male genital mutilation(circumcision) is on par with female genital mutilation. In both cases they are just taking a little skin off. Why should one OK and then other not. Answer is they are both barbaric practices that should be stopped unless medically necessary.


edit on 9-5-2017 by PlasticWizard because: (no reason given)



Hormones in children are a ridiculous fad that needs to be stopped. Once the person is developed sexually (puberty) then a choice should be made whether to make life altering hormonal changes or not. 18 years old is a good age for that.
edit on 9-5-2017 by PlasticWizard because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:30 AM
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originally posted by: firefromabove
Jews and Muslims circumcise their boys and many people oppose it and want it banned. they say that adults cannot make decisions that affect children.

Liberal parents of allegedly transgender children make the decision to hormonally alter their children and most people have no problem with it. The media even praises such parents as being progressive and "brave" etc

Why is hormonally altering children alright but not circumcising them?

Circumcision just removes a piece of skin, not a vital organ; besides temporary pain it does not affect their day to day life.

Hormone therapy OTOH changes a whole bunch of things that will affect kids all their lives.






Hormonal therapy sterilizes kids for life.
circumcision snips off some extra skin that wont effect them in any form outside of it being just a bit odd of a practice.

I think the answer is pretty clear here



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:32 AM
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originally posted by: 0racle
a reply to: crappiekat

im sorry to break this to you but they lied and your sons foreskins were sold to the beauty industry who use the foreskin cells in anti aging facial creme, for a high price.


Thank you for the info.
Can you show me a source for that?

I see where your going, but at the time....

As most parents I was concerned it's about health reasons.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:33 AM
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originally posted by: Yarrow83
a reply to: firefromabove

Hormonal treatment sounds way worse to me. Who knows what long term side effects there are from such treatment...

Oh, they know one long term side effect
permanent sterilization.

That seems like a pretty big deal imo.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: Taupin Desciple
Because people are starting to move away from the belief that a religious based practice is acceptable.


One thing to think about is religious practices in many cases are a result of good practices that over a long time became religious practices. I know we can debate the many practices that are bad and even barbaric such as female circumcision, something that is done to remove the pleasure for women to keep them...I don't know...

Male circumcision has much to do with cleanliness more than anything else. Not that a uncircumcised person can't be clean, just takes more effort. One thing to think about is the older a male is the worst it is to be circumcised. I know of some friends that elected to be circumcised later in life due to tearing and it is not that simple as a new born who gets a simple snip and it is done.






edit on 9-5-2017 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:53 AM
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originally posted by: PlasticWizard

The big one is that, in fact, male genital mutilation(circumcision) is on par with female genital mutilation.


You are kidding right? Female circumcision cuts off the labia and clitoris and is done later in life just before the woman reaches puberty. The clitoris has more nerve endings then the whole penis....is the major sexual stimulation for most woman...and you call it the same? Nothing like cutting off a twelve year old's labia and clitoris and tying it around her wrist so all can see she is pure now...

To be on "par" the male would need to remove the penis head too...

Give me a break...I feel people just argue to argue...



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 01:59 AM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Yarrow83
a reply to: firefromabove

Hormonal treatment sounds way worse to me. Who knows what long term side effects there are from such treatment...

Oh, they know one long term side effect
permanent sterilization.

That seems like a pretty big deal imo.


They don't give gender dysphoric kids hormones, anyway. They prescribe hormone blockers to prevent the wrong hormones from #ing them up.

So this whole thread is based on a false premise.
edit on 9-5-2017 by Abysha because: Goddamn phone...



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 02:10 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Yarrow83
a reply to: firefromabove

Hormonal treatment sounds way worse to me. Who knows what long term side effects there are from such treatment...

Oh, they know one long term side effect
permanent sterilization.

That seems like a pretty big deal imo.


They don't give gender dysphoric kids hormones, anyway. They prescribe hormone blockers to prevent the wrong hormones from #ing them up.

So this whole thread is based on a false premise.


Why would a parent give a kid hormone blockers instead of teaching the child the gender they fall into?


edit on 5 by Mandroid7 because: added

edit on 5 by Mandroid7 because: edit

edit on 5 by Mandroid7 because: sorry cant type



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 02:34 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Yarrow83
a reply to: firefromabove

Hormonal treatment sounds way worse to me. Who knows what long term side effects there are from such treatment...

Oh, they know one long term side effect
permanent sterilization.

That seems like a pretty big deal imo.


They don't give gender dysphoric kids hormones, anyway. They prescribe hormone blockers to prevent the wrong hormones from #ing them up.

So this whole thread is based on a false premise.

Well, they do as early as 16. I would have less objection if they weren't given hormones until 21 (18 max, but 18 is a rough age even then to decide if its just parental/society programming (trans-trender)). Big decisions here.

As far as simply blockers..I am less objectionable to that if it was just that, but its the first step towards the inevitable second step...up the age of hormone therapy and then the argument becomes a bit better.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 02:35 AM
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originally posted by: Mandroid7
Why would a parent give a kid hormone blockers instead of teaching the child the gender they fall into?

Deep question that has both scientific, sociological, and/or religious answers.
which do you prefer? they tend to be at odds with each other
edit on 9-5-2017 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 02:40 AM
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originally posted by: Mandroid7
Why would a parent give a kid hormone blockers instead of teaching the child the gender they fall into?


To hell with it. I will give all 3. you decide which resonates with you

Science:
NewScientist
ScientificAmerican
Basically this states unique brain patterns in trans/gender dysphoria are appearant and mirror closer to the gender they "believe" they are verses what they are born into...basically they have the wrong brain for the body (wrong body)

Sociological:
Gender is a spectrum, 83 different flavors, blah blah..ignore these idiots, they actually make a mockery of actual gender dysphoria with trans-trending snowflake crap.

Religious: God hates etc...ignore them also

I go with science..but you can choose whatever you want.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 02:44 AM
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originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: firefromabove



not a vital organ; besides temporary pain it does not affect their day to day life.


Are you ignorant or is it too hard to look up?

www.circinfo.org...


Additionally, circumcision results in loss of 30–50% of the penile skin, loss of at least 10,000–20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings, loss of reciprocal stimulation of foreskin and glans, and loss of the natural coital gliding mechanism, etc. From the point of view of sensation and function, the most important effect is caused by the tissue loss itself. The most sensitive part of the penis is removed, and the normal mechanisms of intercourse and erogenous stimulation are disturbed.


Yeah right, that is a bunk website.
Dude look at the math in your quote.




circumcision results in loss of 30–50% of the penile skin


30-50%?

yeah, maybe if it's a sex change operation.

Let's try a less tabloid medical source


US National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
LINK



The 8 best reasons for routine newborn male circumcision
8. Circumcision decreases the risk of urinary tract infection.
7. Circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men.
6. Circumcision lowers the risk of STDs.
5. Circumcision protects against penile cancer.
4. Circumcision reduces the risk of penile HPV infection and the risk of cervical cancer in female partners.
3. Circumcision prevents chlamydia infections and subsequent pelvic inflammatory disease, ectopic pregnancy and infertility.
2. Circumcision decreases the risk of balanoposthitis and phimosis and the later need for postneonatal circumcision.
1. Circumcision improves sexual function and creativity.


And this is interesting




Laumann and colleagues, in 1997, demontrated that not only were uncircumcised men more prone to have sexual difficulties, compared with circumcised men, but also that circumcised men enjoyed a more elaborate sexual lifestyle and that their female partners were more pleased with the esthetics of the circumcised penis.26 In addition, Masters and Johnson have long established that there were no differences in glandular tactile stimulation between circumcised and uncircumcised men.27 Evidence is accumulating and a consensus is forming that neonatal circumcision offers non- negligible lifetime health benefits by protecting against infant UTI and its associated, possibly severe, complications, HIV, ulcerative STD, and penile and cervical cancers. Complications to the procedure are rare and almost always minor.8,28 Even from a cost analysis perspective, neonatal circumcision, once totally unthinkable, is gaining more attention and respect.4 Consequently, parents should always be given the most current and sound medical information regarding the benefits and risks of the procedure. One should remember, however, that one's decision is more greatly influenced by the circumcision status of the father, ethnic background and religion.29 Cost and health factors should then be removed from the decision and personal factors should be considered of primary importance when the procedure is discussed.


Yeah I wouldn't give it a second thought If I had to make the decision.

edit on 5 by Mandroid7 because: added2

edit on 5 by Mandroid7 because: ADDED LINK



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 03:55 AM
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Idgaf uncircumsized members look absolutely repulsive. Sorry Europeans. To each their own. It is the standard in the US despite what you may read and good luck getting certain things here otherwise. Sex still feels great despite some missing nerve endings.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 04:24 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

Not at all kidding. Penis heads are removed in botched surgery all the time and nerves die off too. They sever your frenulum and millions of nerve ending. They are both terrible practices of genital (penis/vagina) mutilation(the infliction of serious damage on something) You're trying to compare Washington Apples to Granny Smith Apples. They are both apples.



Whoever commented on cleanliness. It takes no more effort to keep clean than an uncut. Maybe back when it began as a religious practice, dirty Ds were an issue and it made sense. We have soap now.

You know that during the development of the genital that there's a little bump. And that bump turns into one of 2 things(typically) depending on some chromosomes. A penis or a clitoris. So it makes sense that it would have the same amount of nerves if not more per square inch due to the size ratio of the two. Remember they started out the same in the womb.

With that in mind, male circumcision is the same as Dr's swooping in the and cutting of baby girls clitoris hood or inner labia because it "looks better" (an opinion) or it might be unclean in the future (bad hygiene).. Are you OK with Dr's doing that to new born girls? I'm not.

Seriously, it not OK to do to people, male and female, unless they want to religiously or cosmetically or it's medically necessary. It's not a parents decision.

I didn't make that decision for my son.



edit on 9-5-2017 by PlasticWizard because: Spelling

edit on 9-5-2017 by PlasticWizard because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 04:33 AM
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I hated the idea of circumcizing my newborn baby boy. However, my husband convinced me that he would not look like the other boys in the locker room. Still not convinced, I did not want my baby hurt for no reason, it took a team of pediatricians to convince me and I still remember the morning it was done-the guilt killed me and did cry and cuddle him afterward-but was especially angry when I asked if he had been given a sedative and was told that wasn't necessary. I was very upset and angry that day.

Thank God, my next child was a beautiful baby girl.
edit on 9-5-2017 by Justso because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 04:41 AM
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a reply to: Justso

I'm sorry to hear that. They don't give them anything for the procedure. The procedure is fairly brutal to watch.

With out getting too personal my dad was in the NFL in the 50s. No one talked about his junk.. I wasn't into sports. so locker room worry wasn't ever an issue. Father of 3(boy, 2 girls), Never an unsatisfied customer.
edit on 9-5-2017 by PlasticWizard because: (no reason given)


I missed this survey.



The 8 best reasons for routine newborn male circumcision
8. Circumcision decreases the risk of urinary tract infection. Never got one.
7. Circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men. what are condoms?
6. Circumcision lowers the risk of STDs. what are condoms?
5. Circumcision protects against penile cancer. this one doesn't even make sense
4. Circumcision reduces the risk of penile HPV infection and the risk of cervical cancer in female partners. condoms again
3. Circumcision prevents chlamydia infections and subsequent pelvic inflammatory disease, ectopic pregnancy and infertility. condooooms...
2. Circumcision decreases the risk of balanoposthitis and phimosis and the later need for postneonatal circumcision. my parents took care of me and kept me properly clean and properly stretched my foreskin so these issues were never a problem
1. Circumcision improves sexual function and creativity. obviously doesn't have an uncut, I can't name everything here but you can jack it without lube which can lead to creativity
edit on 9-5-2017 by PlasticWizard because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 05:03 AM
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originally posted by: lightedhype
Idgaf uncircumsized members look absolutely repulsive. Sorry Europeans. To each their own. It is the standard in the US despite what you may read and good luck getting certain things here otherwise. Sex still feels great despite some missing nerve endings.


And there I thought as a European woman that circumsized penises look revolting. You telling me it isn't so, doesn't make any difference to my personal opinion. It's offputting and disgusting to have your member hanging there all 'naked' in a form that should only be seen when you want sex.
I prefer the little rollneck to hide the willy when not in use. Hides it well and isn't 'menacing' looking [I tell you that as a woman!]
As Germans we went to many Nudist places and it is pretty offensive seeing a 'naked' willy.

As to being unhygienic, it isn't if you are a clean person. To me guys with naked members are just to lazy to wash properly.

All is well in Europe.
edit on 9-5-2017 by Hecate666 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 05:20 AM
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So many personal opinions being thrown around as fact in this thread its funny...

Might as well throw mine out there...

As a circumcised guy, I have zero issues enjoying sex... I have zero memory of the procedure, and as far as I can tell no bad side effects from the procedure... heck if anything I wish I was a little less sensitive so I can enjoy the process a bit longer.

As for hormone therapy... I have no opinion but will relate the story of a friend.

She had felt most of her life that she should have been born male, she did not elect to pursue this till after she had become an adult and had a child... she is immensely thankful for having had her daughter and has told me and the wife that despite the emotional struggle going high school feeling like she was in the wrong body, she is happy she did so she could fully understand what she was giving up vs just what she felt she was gaining.

How many of the young people going through the therapy now truly understand what they are losing vs what they are gaining.

eta: I would honestly be curious to see a study done say... 10 yrs down the road after gender reassignment (used for lack of a better word) through either hormone therapy or blockers, I have read some papers that imply a high suicide rate... but not a real honest to god study... though to be honest I havent pursued that in some time.

that about wraps up my opinion piece...
edit on 9-5-2017 by Irishhaf because: additional thought



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: firefromabove

All I know is, nobody asked me if I wanted a piece of my penis cut off the day after I was born. If they asked me now, I would say "no". But if all the neighbors were doing it and I wanted to fit in, who knows, I might just ask, "Excuse me, can I borrow a pair of surgical scissors and some rubbing alcohol?" and run straight to the bathroom, eager to fit in.

If you ask one hundred two-year-olds at random, "Would you like to be a girl/boy (whichever is the opposite sex), we might be surprised how many say 'yes' to the opposite sex. Especially in this country, the U.S., where parental roles are more ill-defined than ever, and children are raised on a steady diet of passive-aggressive cartoon characters, toys and unhealthy food.

If other children are self-reassigning their gender, more and more are sure to follow. Humans are apes, basically. Monkey see, monkey do. Forget about "see no evil", and so forth. Humans are the exact opposite. We'll do whatever we see the next guy doing. This is why we have dress codes and behavioral rules for kids.

I'm not implying transgenderism or gender dysphoria is an avoidable fluke. Based on what I know of the history of religions, it seems at least as old as civilization. But human beings are apes, and are highly suggestible. We are bombarded, by the media, from a young age with a plethora of confusing images that make it increasingly difficult for us to construct anything like a consistent model of gender. Every child is building randomized, internal image of 'male' and 'female' based on an unnaturally chaotic environment, Not to mention all the environmental pollutants and horomone-mimicking chemicals in our food supply which are causing gender dysphoria, low sperm count in adult males, and secondary sex characteristics in children at younger and younger ages.



posted on May, 9 2017 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

Just to add something to this discussion, a child with gender dysphoria must go through years of heavy therapy before the decision is made to take hormones. It's not as simple as little Timmy telling Mom, "I'm a girl" and getting hormones right after that. Psychiatrists who specialize in gender dysphoria know what to look for, and know to look for other issues that might mimic gender dysphoria (mental illnesses like schizophrenia, or past physical/emotional traumas).



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