Ufos, Aliens, Space Conspiracies, etc VS "The Firmament" and not getting beyond low earth orbit.

a reply to: JerseyGuy

To be put as bluntly as possible; yes. There is absolutely zero proof of a "firmament" what so ever (there is however a infinite amount of proof to the contrary), and using a fiction based source such as the bible as evidence for it, goes even further to discredit the notion. To lend credence to such a theory is basically disregarding 4+ centuries of testable scientific knowledge. These nonsensical theories that are trending nowadays along with flat earth theory and the anti-vaccination movement are what is stopping mankind from progressing further as a species.

a reply to: Badams

Thanks to the internet.
The sum of human knowledge, and ignorance, is at our fingertips.

originally posted by: JerseyGuy
So basically the opinion of everyone who has replied so far is to disregard anything related to a firmament. There is no possibility of it. Also, that the mention of it in the Bible is to be ignored as well. Is that correct?

The bible is a work of fiction written by a hippy penshioner after he'd eaten a handful of mushrooms.
If you really want to develope your mind fiction is not the way to go.

Look guys,
I didn't want this topic to become argumentative or receive "throw it in the face" comments. Believe me, I am an avid, very long time researcher of everything regarding space, aliens, planets, etc. the whole firmament thing angered me because it would suggest that all these years of reading were a waste. I just wanted some feedback on the possibility of the firmament and see if anyone shared my dilemmas For the most part (not all of you) I see that it just isn't considered a possibility.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: JerseyGuy

What are meteorites?

Why would other governments support this lie? Wouldn't China and Russia/Soviet Union love to discredit the US?

You mean the same government that does joint "space" operations with the US? I guess you didn't fully think this through...

Meteorites? God's messengers.

a reply to: Phage

Well said, it's most definitely as much of a curse as it is a blessing. Ovcourse, only you can decide how its used!

originally posted by: JerseyGuy
So basically the opinion of everyone who has replied so far is to disregard anything related to a firmament. There is no possibility of it. Also, that the mention of it in the Bible is to be ignored as well. Is that correct?

Firmament - firmamentum - support , base , prop..
Not a dome. If anything - solid ground

a reply to: Badams

To be put as bluntly as possible; yes. There is absolutely zero proof of a "firmament" what so ever (there is however a infinite amount of proof to the contrary), and using a fiction based source such as the bible as evidence for it, goes even further to discredit the notion. To lend credence to such a theory is basically disregarding 4+ centuries of testable scientific knowledge. These nonsensical theories that are trending nowadays along with flat earth theory and the anti-vaccination movement are what is stopping mankind from progressing further as a species.

So out of interest do you believe a person should not have beliefs that lie outside of testable scientific dogma? I am often surprised that this mentality is pushed so often especially on a conspiracy site. Have you ever had an experience that does not conform to the scientific norm? If you have do you just put that experience in the too hard basket or do you entertain other less accepted thoughts to permeate the noggin?

Here's the firmament

Nah........

originally posted by: Badams
a reply to: JerseyGuy

To be put as bluntly as possible; yes. There is absolutely zero proof of a "firmament" what so ever (there is however a infinite amount of proof to the contrary), and using a fiction based source such as the bible as evidence for it, goes even further to discredit the notion. To lend credence to such a theory is basically disregarding 4+ centuries of testable scientific knowledge. These nonsensical theories that are trending nowadays along with flat earth theory and the anti-vaccination movement are what is stopping mankind from progressing further as a species.

Fiction based source? People should believe the words of prophets before believing in the words of company men and mercenaries. If you believe in say the God of the OT or the NT, you need to believe it the whole story, not just what you want to cherry pick.

Here's a fun fact. Nearly every religion/spirituality on this plane throughout the ages had their version of flat earth/firmament. People's divided by oceans and time. That's no accident.

And sure, science NEVER gets it wrong, nor does it EVER lie. Lol

a reply to: Charlyboy

Actually, I believe religion does certainly have its merits. It's a fantastic tool to give people hope who would otherwise have little reason to have any. It also gives the majority of subscribers a fairly good outline of what it means to be a good person. I do however, absolutely disagree with people taking it as fact and taking its writings on face value. Especially Christianity and Islam. As I'm sure you're aware, taking religion as fact and on face value can end vary badly.

a reply to: Geki09

I don't believe in any divine entity. And no it doesn't, really. Science simply adapts and advances and changes its understanding of the results it produces.

a reply to: JerseyGuy

the whole firmament thing angered me because it would suggest that all these years of reading were a waste. I just wanted some feedback on the possibility of the firmament and see if anyone shared my dilemmas

Thing is... it shouldn't be a dilemma in the first place

That idea came from people who had no idea what was above their heads

people need to realize that we know more about the planet, and space... the solar system... pretty much everything as compared to people of biblical times

But i know... its "gods word" right?

Let it go... seriously

A lot of the bible is flat out wrong... There is no firmament

a reply to: JerseyGuy

Some things have the ability to pass the firmament, it's just not a human space agency. They don't have permission and never will at this rate. All of their space propaganda is just elaborate movie magic and illusions. All CGI.

These men who continue the widespread lies have no idea the fate they are sealing. God will NOT forgive them. And for what? A paycheck and pension? A few comfortable decades of earthly existence? I pity their souls.

a reply to: Badams

I think that when people take any belief too seriously it ends badly. Lets take this thread for example, there is already conflict because people simply can't agree that thoughts and beliefs are just that, they are not really anything worth getting emotional about. I see this kind of division becoming more and more obvious. Climate change, Carbon tax, Religion, Science, political beliefs all of it creates division when we simply feel we have to defend our beliefs, and for what??

I often think our human ego hates our beliefs being questioned, so much so we come out fighting. It's a bit sad and short sighted really. I do it, you do it we all seem to do it.

I was a student under Dawkins for short while, held him in such high regard and then during a lecture I watched him get aggressive with someone asking him about god. It really put me of the guy and his almost religious approach to science.

So what do you do??

originally posted by: Badams
a reply to: Geki09

I don't believe in any divine entity. And no it doesn't, really. Science simply adapts and advances and changes its understanding of the results it produces.

Well then you must be an automaton, and science is your religion.

a reply to: Geki09
I like this!

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JerseyGuy

the whole firmament thing angered me because it would suggest that all these years of reading were a waste. I just wanted some feedback on the possibility of the firmament and see if anyone shared my dilemmas

Thing is... it shouldn't be a dilemma in the first place

That idea came from people who had no idea what was above their heads

people need to realize that we know more about the planet, and space... the solar system... pretty much everything as compared to people of biblical times

But i know... its "gods word" right?

Let it go... seriously

A lot of the bible is flat out wrong... There is no firmament

People didn't know what was over their heads? Seriously? Do you even know your history of ancient cultures? Tell that to the megalithic culture architects and their synchronous design with heavenly bodies.

originally posted by: Geki09
a reply to: JerseyGuy

Some things have the ability to pass the firmament, it's just not a human space agency. They don't have permission and never will at this rate. All of their space propaganda is just elaborate movie magic and illusions. All CGI.

These men who continue the widespread lies have no idea the fate they are sealing. God will NOT forgive them. And for what? A paycheck and pension? A few comfortable decades of earthly existence? I pity their souls.

originally posted by: Geki09

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: JerseyGuy

the whole firmament thing angered me because it would suggest that all these years of reading were a waste. I just wanted some feedback on the possibility of the firmament and see if anyone shared my dilemmas

Thing is... it shouldn't be a dilemma in the first place

That idea came from people who had no idea what was above their heads

people need to realize that we know more about the planet, and space... the solar system... pretty much everything as compared to people of biblical times

But i know... its "gods word" right?

Let it go... seriously

A lot of the bible is flat out wrong... There is no firmament

People didn't know what was over their heads? Seriously? Do you even know your history of ancient cultures? Tell that to the megalithic culture architects and their synchronous design with heavenly bodies.

yeah actually i do...

Like i said, they had no idea what was above their heads

The Orion Connection

Creating structures that emulate the stars doesn't equate to knowing they're light from stars