Atheists have no answers

a reply to: grainofsand

But you do see the calamity of what I was suggesting?
If this life is it, as you prescribe to. Then there is no difference.
But what difference is there if what I believe is true?
Staying in the present context. It will be realised by....

See what happen was NM.

a reply to: randyvs

Oh absolutely, I see what you are saying, and a good example of that is when someone I love dies.
I don't have the comforting thoughts that we'll meet in an afterlife or whatever, so the assumption that they're gone forever, worm food, hits like a train.

I could imagine they are looking down at me etc, but deep down I know I'd be lying to myself because I have no way of knowing it's true.
So yeah, I take the pain of death without the comfort of a claimed afterlife, and yep it is brutal sometimes. My best friend last year is a good recent example.

a reply to: grainofsand

I have to tell ya, it drives me crazy when my wife says this
about her mother.

I could imagine they are looking down at me etc,

It's a false assumption for Christian believers to make such a claim.
Nowhere is it taught that people die and become guardian angels
looking down from Heaven and protecting their loved ones who remain.
Just really annoying.

a reply to: randyvs

Lol, I get ya!
Okay, the comfort of believing they are in heaven living on with God then. My lack of belief in such things leaves me with the bleaker assumption of worm food because it's the only option I know for a fact...unless cremation of course but you get my drift.
Religious faith certainly provides comfort to many people, so in that sense I get it, but it ain't an option for me.

a reply to: grainofsand

but it ain't an option for me.

Just for the record I have never nor would I ever consider
trying to convert anyone online. I try simply to
show that it can't accurately be referred to as myth and that
there is far more truth involved than most atheists seem
willing to concede. That's it! If seeds flourish some where,
I sure haven't heard of it.

a reply to: randyvs

Understood
I have to say though, while your truth remains unverifiable I can only consider it as myths and fables.
Do you think Shiva is a myth or a potential truth?

Not a trick question, just genuinely trying to see what you think of different religious faith from other historical backgrounds.
We focus on Christian/atheists on ATS but I think the conflicting major religions create a much more interesting debate.

a reply to: grainofsand

I agree with you.

Do you think Shiva is a myth or a potential truth?

I think the same thing. That there is far more truth to these
ancient history beliefs than could possibly be understood by
the inhibitions/protocols of science will ever allow you to
consider. I believe the Bible covers the history of these false
Gods that deceived the ancients. But that's me I see the sense
of it and that it all ties together in an amazing tapestry.

Does that really seem so shy of a full deck?
Who could deny that with all that we see of the ancient past, that
there wasn't some completely whacked out crap going on in the world
as it were? How can you look at places like Petra and other places
cut right into the rock and seemingly flawless without realising you
need to make some concessions to what you call myth?

a reply to: randyvs

I see your stance but the premise that the Bible is the absolute truth is something I do not subscribe to.
A Hindu would probably give a similar argument to yours, that conflict of equally unverifiable faiths is something I can never see as able to be reconciled.

I would even argue that my lack of belief in Shiva is as logical and certainly reasoned as my lack of belief in your Christian God.

Cheeky question, who would you find more annoying, an atheist who doesn't believe in any gods or a Hindu who asserts your god is false?

a reply to: grainofsand

I see your stance but the premise that the Bible is the absolute truth is something I do not subscribe to.

Don't mix me up in your past now?
I'm not pursuing that as a goal. Even tho I can believe it as
a rational thinking adult. I don't expect anyone else to see it.

Cheeky question, who would you find more annoying, an atheist who doesn't believe in any gods or a Hindu who asserts your god is false?

At this point I'd just suicide bomb all of us.

a reply to: randyvs

Oh I wasn't, just setting out my stall for interesting discussion.
So, non believers or conflicting religions calling your god false, which winds you up more?

a reply to: grainofsand

Take hostages or something really extreme.

Write another thread on ATS and piss em both off.

a reply to: randyvs

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by hostages etc?

a reply to: grainofsand

Not important I was just run'n some humor by ya
no offense mon.

a reply to: randyvs

Lol fair one.
Strong is faith in you young jedi

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: randyvs

Oh I wasn't, just setting out my stall for interesting discussion.
So, non believers or conflicting religions calling your god false, which winds you up more?

It doesn't bother me if people say my God is false? What bothers
me is when they can be shown their reasoning behind saying
that doesn't hold water and they just ignore it. Then they
go into some rhetorical rant that is really just more bullsh1t.
So they obviously aren't ready to listen to reason. So what are
they doing?

a reply to: randyvs

So I assume you think the Hindu Vedas texts bull# then?
It can be the only conclusion when it so vastly contradicts Christian belief.
"I don't believe in any gods" seems more reasonable than either position due to the unverifiable nature of both theistic parties.

*edit*
My theological serotonin reservoir is running low so I'll leave you to your thread for now.
Cheers for an interesting and calm discussion on an overcast quiet Saturday.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: randyvs

So I assume you think the Hindu Vedas texts bull# then?
It can be the only conclusion when it so vastly contradicts Christian belief.
"I don't believe in any gods" seems more reasonable than either position due to the unverifiable nature of both theistic parties.

Then you assume wrong when I've already stated I believe there is
way more truth in the ancient past than what you are willing to
concede. Why would I think any example of ancient literature was
crap? I'm not muslim!

Are the Vedas unverifiable?
What do Scholars say?
And what do they say about scripture?
What have scholars verified about Christ?
Do you even care what scholars say?

a reply to: randyvs

Ah you missed my edit in my last post, have a good weekend fella, and again cheers for interesting discussion.

a reply to: grainofsand

My theological serotonin reservoir is running low so I'll leave you to your thread for now. Cheers for an interesting and calm discussion on an overcast quiet Saturday.

Very nice!

a reply to: randyvs

If things are this screwed up by seperation from God? Just think if
there was no God?

probably the same world we live in now.

I admit I don't have the education to answer from any kind of scientific
perspective. But if we consider a Creator why do you always seem so
quick to lay blame? When you aren't even as intelligent as the idea of
a Creator? Do you really think that if we assume he does exist you
will be able to match wits with him? I believe you do and that my
fellow member is the pinnacle of arrogance.

you are avoiding the question. but since you brought it up, my own opinion is that the pinnacle of arrogance is having the power to save absolutely everyone and anyone but choosing to let some people suffer or die. you are literally sentencing your own children to death by your inaction. children women families innocent people who never broke a law or hurt anyone. i dont care what your reasons are, if you have the power and purposefully allow them to suffer needlessly and die, that is evil. thats what separates good people from cowards. a true god wouldnt hesitate to sacrifice all of their power and their life to end needless pain and death. a god who puts his own existence above his children is no savior. a charlatan like yourself.

What makes you presume that it isn't man who brought suffering into a
world God once deemed was good?

because that would mean either selfish men are more powerful than a god, or god is more negligent than the worst politicians on this planet.

It's people like you that brought suffering on innocent lives. People like
you who cowardly pointed the finger of blame at his own wife back in
Eden. People like you who sinned and disobeyed God and brought
the curse of death on mankind that still exists in a world that wasn't
even meant to be. People like you who I don't blame God one bit for
judging.

god is a bigger coward than i have ever been, using puppets like you to try and shift the blame. you are still avoiding the question. does that mean atheists arent the only ones who have no answers? no GOOD answers anyway.

Or did you ask the question because if I didn't have an answer you
could still be an atheist? See there are answers and atheists just
refuse them. Well if the answers scare you maybe you should cease
asking frightful questions?

you dont have answers, you have copouts. you did everything you could to not address the matter of why bad things happen to good people while good things happen to bad people. and dont presume to know my beliefs. children still get brain tumors and bone cancer. saints still get violated and abused while criminals become millionaires from human trafficking and druglording. wheres your god now? laughing it up on mt olympus where the suffering of neglected innocents and the profit of depraved sociopaths cant touch him? doing his best to deny his epic failure while vacationing in the andromeda galaxy?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Woodcarver

Nobody is laying blame on god, they are giving you specific instances where the existence of god makes no sense. Like cancer in children.

And I point out the ways that it could indeed make sense
and get called stupid?

It's unbelievable.

im sorry, did you just say it makes sense for children to get cancer? are you implying that a reasonable higher power would let children get cancer to make a point to society? thats as bad as westboro baptist church blaming the newtown elementary school attack on gay marriage!

originally posted by: randyvs

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: randyvs

Oh I wasn't, just setting out my stall for interesting discussion.
So, non believers or conflicting religions calling your god false, which winds you up more?

It doesn't bother me if people say my God is false? What bothers
me is when they can be shown their reasoning behind saying
that doesn't hold water and they just ignore it. Then they
go into some rhetorical rant that is really just more bullsh1t.
So they obviously aren't ready to listen to reason. So what are
they doing?

this is the part where you magically transform into a hypocrite. whodathunkit?