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EYE-OPENER..Universal HealthCare In America Would Be Surprisingly Inexpensive.!

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posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: Phoenix

Now let's take a big leap and imagine USC15 Chapter 1 type laws were applied 6 months ago.

Now its just Doctor, Nurse Practicioner, Nurse and records clerk left in downsized office working independently.

It's all cash pay and patients are routine maintenance care and minor medical.

The doctor or N.P each sees 10 patients an hour.

What is a fair charge to the patient for services rendered?




posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: Phoenix


If you get 10-15 minutes with the doctor, a "fair charge" should be in the $50-$75 neighborhood. That's what our family's HMO primary care doctor charges us.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:23 AM
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What about a national vote on the matter? Put the costs/benefits/source of revenue/ of Universal Healthcare and the final Senate version of the American Health Care Act before the American people.

A special nationwide vote to let those who would be affected (every citizen) choose between UHC and AHCA.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: FuggleHop
a reply to: carewemust

I don't know which is worse socialism or communism.

What's worse to me is tying health insurance to a job. There are so many people stuck in jobs they don't like just so they have health insurance.

The Affordable Care Act began decoupling insurance from needing to have an employer. A lot of people -- me included -- started their own business because they could finally get health insurance through the exchange. I don't receive a subsidy, and despise the idea of indentured servitude for insurance.

So I would say fascism is worse than communism or socialism. There are elements of socialism that enable a better quality of life for people than unfettered capitalism.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: carewemust

1. medicare has a lot of problems with dr's accepting it as they don't make anything (and often times lose money) by taking medicare patients. That's not really a great argument. But equally as important, medicare is going bust. The average person pays in 1/3 of what the government pays out for them. That model works great for an ever increasing population, but with population growth slowing it's going to go belly up really fast. That's why they are cutting the allowed charges for things and the reason it's becoming more and more difficult to use.

2. And? That doesn't make it the proper, principled thing to do.

3. But I thought the point was that it would be cheaper? So we're going to take all the money we currently spend on insurance and give that to the government plus what we pay in taxes already, plus more in taxes? That sounds like it's more expensive to me.

Nearly all doctors and hospitals accept medicare. Now, Medicaid is a different story. But don't go spreading false information about medicare, which is great coverage for people.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Phoenix

Now let's take a big leap and imagine USC15 Chapter 1 type laws were applied 6 months ago.

Now its just Doctor, Nurse Practicioner, Nurse and records clerk left in downsized office working independently.

It's all cash pay and patients are routine maintenance care and minor medical.

The doctor or N.P each sees 10 patients an hour.

What is a fair charge to the patient for services rendered?



If we assume $600000 a year to run practice to cover salary, rent and incidentals it works out to,

$15 DOLLARS per patient, let's be generous and allow 100% profit to pay nice retirement for everyone and expand practice.

That's $1.2 million a year gross.

Gosh that'd be bank breaking total sum of $30 bucks per patient.

To do this I had to have tort reform, end massive labor intensive billing machine, remove insurance, reduce mandated government paperwork and rules.

Even if my math and/or assumptions are way way off and we allow a $60 dollar charge it's still better to pay cash 4-6 times a year than some policy that has $3000 to $6000 deductible plus $400 to $600 a month premium charge for the privilege of eventually paying $15 dollar co-pay which if you track my numbers gets back to real cost anyway.

Jeez!



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: Phoenix


That's fine and dandy for the routine check-ups. But what about the illnesses and injuries that have American hospitals and out-patient surgical centers filled to the brim with patients every day of the year? How to pay for those treatments and surgeries if you don't have health insurance?



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: rickymouse
yes we need to cut out them greedy health insurance companies . and how about we make nationwide sales tax on everything to pay for it.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
What about a national vote on the matter? Put the costs/benefits/source of revenue/ of Universal Healthcare and the final Senate version of the American Health Care Act before the American people.

A special nationwide vote to let those who would be affected (every citizen) choose between UHC and AHCA.


Yup, that's gonna work - everyone will be convinced someone else gets the bill.

Meanwhile medical industry will be laughing on way to bank.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Phoenix


If you get 10-15 minutes with the doctor, a "fair charge" should be in the $50-$75 neighborhood. That's what our family's HMO primary care doctor charges us.



Then that conclusively demonstrates there is absolutely no need for insurance coverage of routine care costs.

The cost you quoted even includes monopoly fraud costs.

Remove those and we're now down below $30 charge I mentioned.

Now that that's cleared up there's obviously no need for government to intervene except to uphold existing law.

After law is applied we can then figure out best way to accomplish catastrophic insurance and serve poor, indignant and those with pre-existing conditions as everyone transitions to personal policies that once done makes pre-existing go away by default.

See I am for helping the poor have access I just ask that all of us, government, private sector do it without fraud, monopolistic practices, restraint of trade nor price collusion.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 11:12 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Phoenix


That's fine and dandy for the routine check-ups. But what about the illnesses and injuries that have American hospitals and out-patient surgical centers filled to the brim with patients every day of the year? How to pay for those treatments and surgeries if you don't have health insurance?


I've always promoted "catastrophic policies" for that event as its bad for society in general to bankrupt families on healthcare.

Most (not all) can handle a onetime $10000 expense by borrowing debt and paying loan, I'm not stuck on that $10000 number and use for discussion, when folks are financially able to get $30000 sedans I think they'd handle a one time charge like above just fine.

However were the system truly free market as I'd like it would be easier for society in general to use tax revenue to pay for those who cannot pay - means tested of course.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: rickymouse
yes we need to cut out them greedy health insurance companies . and how about we make nationwide sales tax on everything to pay for it.


How about you look up laws governing monopolistic practices, price fixing, price collusion, restraint of trade and various state consumer protection laws before proposing more tax as a knee-jerk solution.

It's the ENTIRE medical industry - not just insurance companies.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Phoenix


That's fine and dandy for the routine check-ups. But what about the illnesses and injuries that have American hospitals and out-patient surgical centers filled to the brim with patients every day of the year? How to pay for those treatments and surgeries if you don't have health insurance?



Just another example among many,

Why is it one can travel to India and get knee replacement surgery with better outcome and fewer complications for $2200 US.

I think same done here is over $20-$25000 with statistically higher incidence of complications. Complications that btw are further billed upon.

Does that not demonstrate the cost issue or what?



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix


I have a friend who moved back home to India after retiring early, at age 60. He developed a kidney disorder. The doctors there said "your life is over...get comfortable".

He moved back to America, and is now doing OK. Sandeet is now on dialysis once a week, but he's vibrant otherwise.

Another Indian friend brought his mother here for life-saving surgery. The Indian physicians said she was too old. She's now living with her son and doing well.

When India is used as an example of good healthcare, forgive me if I shut-down.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

In Canada a GP is getting 40$-54$ per visit and specialist receives 74$
edit on 8-5-2017 by vonclod because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

We're they using government benefits or paying cash?



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: carewemust

In Canada a GP is getting 40$-54$ per visit and specialist receives 74$


Again at those numbers with medical industry fraud baked in - there is no reason in the U.S. to use insurance coverage on routine care billing - it's flat out waste of money.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: Phoenix


I've always promoted "catastrophic policies" for that event as its bad for society in general to bankrupt families on healthcare.

Most (not all) can handle a onetime $10000 expense by borrowing debt and paying loan, I'm not stuck on that $10000 number and use for discussion, when folks are financially able to get $30000 sedans I think they'd handle a one time charge like above just fine.


There are very few serious medical issues that will be affordable for most. The one off cost of initial treatment for many common conditions would bankrupt most working families. $10'000 hardly scratches the surface when you consider follow on care.

For example bog standard treatment for prostate cancer (of which about 11% of men in the US will be diagnosed in their lifetime) is around $30'000 when you factor in scans, appointments, therapies, hospital stays etc. If you want the good stuff (proton beam therapy for example) you're talking in the region of $150'000. These sorts of costs would destroy most families.



posted on May, 8 2017 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: PaddyInf

originally posted by: Phoenix


I've always promoted "catastrophic policies" for that event as its bad for society in general to bankrupt families on healthcare.

Most (not all) can handle a onetime $10000 expense by borrowing debt and paying loan, I'm not stuck on that $10000 number and use for discussion, when folks are financially able to get $30000 sedans I think they'd handle a one time charge like above just fine.


There are very few serious medical issues that will be affordable for most. The one off cost of initial treatment for many common conditions would bankrupt most working families. $10'000 hardly scratches the surface when you consider follow on care.

For example bog standard treatment for prostate cancer (of which about 11% of men in the US will be diagnosed in their lifetime) is around $30'000 when you factor in scans, appointments, therapies, hospital stays etc. If you want the good stuff (proton beam therapy for example) you're talking in the region of $150'000. These sorts of costs would destroy most families.


And that's why you'd maintain a catastrophic insurance policy which is part my comment you did not quote.

Fix the fraudulent business practices in medical industry and you'd find most Americans would be fine picking up tab on poor catastrophic policies also.



posted on May, 10 2017 @ 01:11 AM
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a reply to: PaddyInf

Personally I dont believe in communism.

I think communisms the enemy. And the sooner we put an end to it the sooner we can drain the swamp.



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