The Joke Known as the AHCA (HR 1628)

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: DBCowboy
We have it. We're stuck with it.

So then I guess the debate is over on if and how the discussion on how to make it the most effective in terms of quality and cost begins (continues).

I suppose.

I can't really argue with that logic.

originally posted by: AnonyMason
a reply to: DanDanDat

I also wonder how Domacrat supporters feel about the fact that not a single one of their representative tried to be a part of shaping this legislation.

Between ACA and the AHA it's pretty clear that purely partisan laws only serve to hurt the American people. But our leaders keep doubling down on them with no end in sight.

It's time our elected leaders grow up a little bit and check the ego at the door.

This is a two way street and easily the most hardcore display of partisan politics to date.

I would agree partisanship is getting worse and worse and worse. Arguing over who did it first or who did it best is a waist of time and juvenile.

I don't accept "she hit me first" from my kids. I'm sure not going to accept it from my elected leaders.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
a reply to: DanDanDat

Surely you are also referring to the Republican's (and their supporters who backed them) that fought Obama on EVERY piece of legislation (no matter what). Just wanted to make sure you were being accurately inclusive in your statement.

Yes I am.

I would find it amusing how Washington has done a 180 in retorict if it didn't effect my life so much.

a reply to: dawnstar

Based on what you wrote, you chose to not document an on the job injury when doing so would have sent you to a physician and the problem addressed earlier through the workman's comp. Did you have a reason for not reporting it considering you also said you had insurance thanks to them?? Although what you wrote is a bit jumbled and confusing, so my full understanding of it may be hazy.

I have been witness to on the job injuries and have had many friends in the years also have them. MANY of them went unreported. And they won't hesitate to say why. Almost all of them did not want to be drug tested for fear of failure. That tends to be mandatory for work injuries, and I do not agree with it really. But it is what it is.

And for the record, again, I have not once stated that proper life choices is a reason to eliminate healthcare options. I merely stated that life choices, usually contrary to rational living options for health, are responsible for most of America's pre-existing and chronic conditions. It is this reckless disregard for ones own well being that is the number one factor in inflated expensive care.

I also have expressed my support for universal health care similar to what Trump praised in Australia, and is offered in many countries around the world, both developed and even poor countries alike.

What we had was not universal care, it was mandatory health insurance which became more expensive than ever seen in American medical history, and basically with a metaphorical gun pointed at our heads through the IRS.

Trump supporter here.
I support this bill. I also support universal health care. I do not support mandatory insurance. Trump is too awesome of a President to be adequately described with words.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: AnonyMason

I really hate Obamacare, but this isn't an improvement. Government shouldn't be involved in the healthcare business. All they are going to do is screw things up just like everything else they touch.

Bureaucrats make poor businessmen.

I don't like this bill, especially how it deals with "pre-existing" conditions. I read an article somewhere how they were defining victims of rape and domestic violence as patients with "pre-existing" conditions. It's beyond me why, in this country, we pay more for medical treatment and insurance, yet in other countries the systems are run by the government and they work. (Even Trump applauded both Australia's and Scotland's government run medical systems.)
pre existing conditions


Trump applauds Australia's...

I personally know people who were able to afford life-saving procedures under Obamacare--things that would have broken the bank before.

What the republiCONs have done here is classic & despicable. Put people's lives at risk while giving money back to the wealthy.
They can spin it any way they want, but it's reckless & irresponsible. Not waiting for another estimate from the CBO? So fiscally conservative.

The bottom line is it's just anathema to them to admit that the government can do any good for people other than starting wars and calling it patriotic.

They punted this to the senate and did their little victory dance. We'll see where it actually ends up....

a reply to: Gandalf77

I don't see why many are so upset.

The House GOP just replaced Obamacare with their own version of Obamacare.

It's still Obamacare, just with GOP doing it instead of democrats.

a reply to: DBCowboy

If that's truly the case, then why bother at all?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Gandalf77

I don't see why many are so upset.

The House GOP just replaced Obamacare with their own version of Obamacare.

It's still Obamacare, just with GOP doing it instead of democrats.

Because some folks don't view the world through partisan-tinted glasses.

The ACA was a mess.

This is a disaster.

A big thank you, to all of the "but he's anti-establishment," Trump voters. This is what you folks wanted, isn't it?

Absolutely no different than the "hope & change," crowd - it's pretty obvious at this point in time.

originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: DBCowboy

If that's truly the case, then why bother at all?

Honestly, I ask myself that question quite a bit.

a reply to: RomeByFire

Obamacare was bad.

This may be worse, it may be better.

We'll see once the Senate gets through with it.

a reply to: AnonyMason

Come on.... Really... Neither party care about you.

You guys that believe the right vs left facade are part of the problem.

ACA and this bill are pieces of crap. Until Congress lives like us and have term limits, this site will continue to be polluted with threads like this.

I feel like a broken record.

a reply to: RomeByFire

Trump voters. This is what you folks wanted, isn't it?

Actually, yes. This is exactly what I wanted realistically. I still dream of universal health care, but hey, I am trying to be realistic here.

This might be slightly off-topic, but I read somewhere that the back-breaker for Obamacare was the abuse of the open enrollment program by policy "jumpers" who enroll when they have serious and/or expensive medical issues then drop the policy as soon as they can. Then the next time they have an issue they re-enroll again. I would think a simple-one time-only enrollment rule for pre-existing conditions could have solved that. Whether it's true or not it shouldn't be ok to just opt-in for insurance only when you need it.

a reply to: underpass61

Where did you read this, Fox News?

Dropping coverage subjected them to the non-coverage penalty. There is some argument to be made that the penalty wasn't high enough to offset the difference, but unless they were evading the government and not paying it at all, they were still paying (even when they had no insurance).

a reply to: worldstarcountry

the problem started out as just not being able to stand up and getting out of bed in the morning, was diagnose as one thing, not work related, but then the physical therapy was making things worse and the doctor was thinking tarsal tunnel, which would have been work related... but by that time, I found myself without the gas money to get to work, was actually falling down at work, and quite frankly sick and tired of going through the pain of work, I just quit..
in more ways than just quitting the job. that problem is still not diagnosed, but I used to walk much more than I do know, and even after I quit I would be walking quit a bit. now, doing my grocery shopping is kind of difficult and I am limping by the time I get through a few aisles... I don't do much walking or much of any excercise, and I got a feeling just by how I feel, that it's affected my heart...
so, well, have your crappy health system, enjoy it!!
I might not benefit anymore from it but at least I will never have to contribute to keeping it alive anymore!

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Kali74
Further, every right, enumerated or unenumerated depends on our collective agreement that something is a right and that we agree to protect it by will or by law.

Well, okay so health care isn't a right because it requires someone else.

like, freedom of speech. I have that right. I dont need people to help me speak, its my voice, my desires.
if healthcare is a right, it means someone else must be forced to attend to you..when you have to force others to do a job then that no longer is a right.

I see it however as a necessary entitlement though. something core to the foundation..like a road..hell, it is a road of taxable healthy employees. Some entitlements are excessive, others are critical to a functioning society. HC lands on the critical spectrum imo.

I disagree. Or maybe think about it like access to health care is a right. I also disagree about not needing others to help you speak. You may not need help forming words but in order to speak freely you need a society that tolerates free speech.

A gay man in Russia isn't free to say that being gay is okay and normal because he doesn't have the people power behind him to do so safely.

a reply to: dawnstar
Well I pray that ultimately you will find a solution that helps you live comfortably and affordably. The best I can offer as far as words is that you can feel a little better that you count the blessings you do have, and that regardless of how bad it seems for many of us, we still have it better than billions of other humans on this Earth.

Its not much, but its something. I have to remember it myself some days when things just feel absolutely dreadful.

a reply to: Wayfarer

A few hundred dollar penalty is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of most surgeries, don't you think? Maintaining your coverage once you're enrolled should be mandatory or you lose the pre-existing condition exemption. Not fair?

healthcare should be considered a national security issue! after all, do you really want all those sick uninsured people ignoring their symptoms and running around passing their germs around in the event of a biological attack or epidemic?