The Joke Known as the AHCA (HR 1628)

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Boadicea

You're wrong.

A "right", a true "right" is not something that is dependent on others.

Universal healthcare would require mandated participation in the form of taxes by those who pay taxes.

What a load of crap. Have you not spent the better part of your posting time recently sanctimoniously screaming that we all need to protect free speech by collectively shutting the fk up?

Further, every right, enumerated or unenumerated depends on our collective agreement that something is a right and that we agree to protect it by will or by law.

Why anyone would choose not to see health care as a right is beyond me. It's cheaper for everyone involved and a healthier society is a more productive society.

Why should anyone pay for the road you drive on? Should we install meters in cars that bill you according to your income bracket, the type of car you drive and grant you access to roads based on how much you're willing to pay? Privatize the roads so that you have to pay whatever the owners want to access them? Of course not. That's absurd. Why? Because it benefits everyone to have public roads.

Why should law makers care about a health system that is good and works for the citizens. They have their own system which far exceeds anything most of the population will have.

originally posted by: AnonyMason
a reply to: worldstarcountry

And those individuals born with congenital health issues?

What about the children diagnosed with leukemia at age two? Or the pregnant mother who can't afford the costs of health care despite working full time?

No... In many cases the choice to be healthy has nothing to do with reality of a situation. That black and white approach is never the case. We live in a world of mostly gray, even with health care.

The bill passed yesterday is going to cost people their lives through no actual CHOICE of their own. That's something the American public should not stand for.

to be fair, what we had was forcing many to choose between healthcare and housing. So it wasn't working either. It's just that the people most affected by it are folks like me who are surviving so we don't need to be heard.

All I want to know is can I get my "cadillac" healthcare plan back that had to be cancelled because of Obamacare? The new Obamacare approved plans have cost me tens of thousands in healthcare costs that would have been covered in my previous plan.

Oh not worries man.
He'd never lie to us.
And you know he's a lawyer and very very smart so can write legislation...oh wait.
Well he's a businessman...You know how they love programs they have to pay out of pocket for an employee...oh wait...
Well he's a billionaire who just gave himself an early Christmas present in the form of a hugh ( yuge in trumpanese) tax break.
There ya go...that one's a perfect fit.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

Health conscientious people get sick and get catastrophic injuries.

a reply to: AboveBoard

that`s exactly what`s happening, that`s always been trumps modus operandi and the republican congress is using it too.

you make your first offer so offensive and despicable that any counter offer you make ( no matter how unfair or horrible it is) will look like manna from heaven and will be accepted unconditionally.

of course the house`s healthcare plan is a massive steaming pile of crap,so that when the senate revises it and offers up a huge steaming pile of crap instead of a massive pile, people will accept it and console themselves by saying " it could have been worse".

a reply to: AnonyMason
I already made my point on that. They are all STILL COVERED, and make up the lesser number of cases of pre-existing conditions. Most Pre-existing conditions are diabetes, heart problems, lung problems, liver issues, basically the majority of the re exists are conditions of choice. As in people chose to live the way that caused them.

When universal healthcare becomes a reality, coverage will get more affordable for those unlucky enough to be born with those issues. I even have a kid born with a birth defect. But in a free market privatized system, shiite happens.
a reply to: network dude
I did not say living healthy would eliminate the need for healthcare. I was making a point that a majority of health issues are caused by choosing to live full retard with the knowledge of the consequences they will have. Like high cholesterol food and heart problems for instance. Being a personal trained does mean person is healthy necessary. Many of them are also smokers (which can lead to heart attacks in life) and I have even seen a few fatties.

Your image of their health could very well be relative.

a reply to: AnonyMason

For 96% of the people who buy their own health insurance, this is a GOD-SEND. For them, going back to the Pre-ObamaCare era is just what the doctor ordered.

The other 4% will go to the High Risk pool. Just like Auto-Insurance for high-risk people, or Bank Loans for those with poor credit.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
Being a personal trained does mean person is healthy necessary. Many of them are also smokers (which can lead to heart attacks in life) and I have even seen a few fatties.

Your image of their health could very well be relative.

Yea, you likely know more about them than I do.

a reply to: roadgravel

You are right, I been in this two hospitals Walter Reed, and Bethesda Naval, when my husband was in the service and station in Quantico, they don't look like hospitals they are darn malls, with flowers, trees and everything you can imagine to make you feel good and cozy.

Those are the two that the president and members of government get to enjoy.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Healthcare is not a right, but it sure as hell is an entitlement now.

Entitlements can be a bitch, but in terms of food and healthcare in what is supposedly a 1st world "great' country, I am in agreement with.

healthy fed people = good workers and taxes.

a reply to: carewemust

Interestingly that is the group that were sacrificed for mandate insurance during the Obamacare. The poor just got dumped on states Medicaid system.

originally posted by: Kali74
Further, every right, enumerated or unenumerated depends on our collective agreement that something is a right and that we agree to protect it by will or by law.

Well, okay so health care isn't a right because it requires someone else.

like, freedom of speech. I have that right. I dont need people to help me speak, its my voice, my desires.
if healthcare is a right, it means someone else must be forced to attend to you..when you have to force others to do a job then that no longer is a right.

I see it however as a necessary entitlement though. something core to the foundation..like a road..hell, it is a road of taxable healthy employees. Some entitlements are excessive, others are critical to a functioning society. HC lands on the critical spectrum imo.

I wonder if any of the die hard supporters of this bill are confused by Trump's celebration at it's passage and then hours later praising the Australian government run Medicare as better... Or the fact that for years leading up to his election run he was all about a universal health care plan. The majority of Trump's support base stand to be negatively impacted by it but so far there is no real vocal opposition to it coming from them.

I would be confused but I started chalking it up to either A) a case of the crazies, B) pathological lying for the cameras or C) both... D) No actual knowledge about the words he was saying.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Healthcare is not a right, but it sure as hell is an entitlement now.

Entitlements can be a bitch, but in terms of food and healthcare in what is supposedly a 1st world "great' country, I am in agreement with.

healthy fed people = good workers and taxes.

The fact, the most basic, ultimate fact is the regardless whether we like it or not, whether we desire it or not. . .

We have it. We're stuck with it.

a reply to: worldstarcountry

ya, I think my choice was to continue going to work and doing those repetitious movements in my feet that ended in a shocking jolt that damaged the bones and nerves even after I got to the point where I was falling down on the job because well, ya know, I needed the job to have the insurance, so I could get the healthcare that never came up with a diagnoses till it was too late!! stupid me!! should have quit my job sooner and just kicked my husband out of the household and gone on welfare and used medicaid to cover the healthcare costs!!!

a reply to: dawnstar

Sorry girl that you have to endure suffering, sometimes we disregard our own well being for the sake of feeling safe.

I hope you can find something better for the care you need.

Truly sorry, girl.

In my friend case she knew what she had and needed a procedure, but the Obamacare looked at her problem as it was not life threatening and call it unnecessary.

She end up getting off the Obamacare and looking for more expensive choice to get the procedure done.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
We have it. We're stuck with it.

So then I guess the debate is over on if and how the discussion on how to make it the most effective in terms of quality and cost begins (continues).

a reply to: SaturnFX

I have my fears about the Senate... it's on them, now.