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The Joke Known as the AHCA (HR 1628)

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posted on May, 5 2017 @ 08:55 AM
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a reply to: marg6043
I have these conversations with my 68 year old neighbor, who is in much worse shape health wise than my 85 year old grandmother. The kicker? He was a very successful car dealer who once had a six figure salary for years and years. Many years of poor choices have made him broke and unhealthy living off SS and Medicare, or medicaid not sure which is which. But, I have gotten him into gardening, and now he has a mini farm in the backyard.
His doctor has noticed improvements since and we are always trading fresh food.

We have a little ghetto commune now on our block with multiple neighbors growing food which we trade around. Chickens and eggs, lettuce, carrots, peppers, tomatoes, onions, herbs and spices all being grown between four homes.

But for the record, I am not against Universal healthcare, and it seems Trump is not either. But Mandatory health insurance is not universal coverage, and the President still has to navigate the difficult realities of politics in Washington.




posted on May, 5 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

On that one I stop wondering a while back when democrats in congress became nothing but obstructionist.

It doesn't matter anymore they are just making sure that anything that the GOP or Trump does is fought with teeth and nails.

Still the GOP have not shown to me that they have something that can rival the Obamacare when it comes to help the citizens in this nation.

They got and F from me on this one. Because this was a big issue for me since the beginning.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: marg6043

Any program that operates under taxes taken is, by default, an entitlement program.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Huh? The military is an entitlement program? Like entitled defense?



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat


I also wonder how Domacrat supporters feel about the fact that not a single one of their representative tried to be a part of shaping this legislation.

Between ACA and the AHA it's pretty clear that purely partisan laws only serve to hurt the American people. But our leaders keep doubling down on them with no end in sight.

It's time our elected leaders grow up a little bit and check the ego at the door.


This is a two way street and easily the most hardcore display of partisan politics to date.

I'm not defending the ACA. However after almost 7 years of trash talking about how much better a GOP sponsored health care bill would look? This is just a slap in the face. Or a kick in the stones. Take your pick.

The GOP had ample time to write something that would actually benefit the people of this country in some meaningful way. Instead they've opted to side with corporations over people and have drafted something that actually stands to hurt the public more than if we just stayed with Obamacare.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: worldstarcountry

I agree, at least the mandate is death, or I hope so.

I come from a long live family that have been know to reach the 100s, but darn I don't want to be that old and be full of nasty big pharma drugs and on somebody else care.

In America People live a bit longer but their quality of life even with so many medications is one of the poorest in the world

That is not life that is just breathing.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

Apologies. I should clarify.

en·ti·tle·ment pro·gram
noun

plural noun: entitlement programs
a government program that guarantees certain benefits to a particular group or segment of the population.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

That's interesting, I never seen it that way, but I see from where you refer to been an entitlement.

We do pay taxes for everything in the nation, we the tax payer do not get to chose what we want our tax dollars to be utilized for, that makes those that collect taxes thieves at least in my opinion.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: marg6043

The vast majority of those taxes go only towards paying off a little bit of the interest the FED charge the Treasury to print the Federal Reserve Note....

Thats a thread for another time, though.

As for an entitlement program, the AHCA repeals in the current state of the bill that's been passed definitely fit the label.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:16 AM
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Seem to me the bottom line is to assure that many people die off in the next decade or two. Too many are no going to be able to afford health care.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


Healthcare is not a right, but it sure as hell is an entitlement now.


Healthcare sure as hell is a right!

We all have an absolute inalienable natural right to protect and defend our lives by nurturing and nursing our health... and we also have an absolute inalienable natural right to any and all of the bounty of the earth to do so. And, further, we have an absolute inalienable natural right to do so for ourselves and by ourselves and/or with any other consenting adults so inclined.

If you are not one of those consenting adults, okay... no one has the right to demand or force the service of anyone else.

Just get the hell out of my way so I can do it for myself.

And, yes, that means that you have to give up your damn entitlements -- such as tax dollars for medical research and medications and procedures that YOU benefit from but others aren't so damn entitled. Get rid of the FDA and USDA and every other man-made health-related institution that takes dollars from the poor to benefit the rich. No more medical education dollars for universities and colleges and professors and students. No more health insurance perks for federal employees -- starting with the prez and congress down to the lowliest minimum wage clerk. Military will receive treatment for injuries caused by service -- nothing more and nothing less. No more government issued patents for medications or procedures or devices. No more prescriptions. No more drug laws at all of any kind. No more corporate fiduciary duty putting shareholder profits before the best interest of the patients.

So.... are you ready to walk your talk and really get government out of the healthcare business? Are you prepared to give up your own entitlements enjoyed at the expense of others? I wonder because you don't even seem to recognize those entitlements... and I hear tell it's difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: AnonyMason

I agree that this sucks. It sucked before. But we need some solutions, some ideas. calling to bitch about this won't solve anything. Complaining online won't solve anything. I tried for the last 6 years.

We need some ideas. We need some solutions.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

You're wrong.

A "right", a true "right" is not something that is dependent on others.

Universal healthcare would require mandated participation in the form of taxes by those who pay taxes.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: AnonyMason

It's a million times worse than Obamacare. What's really a shame is that there's any of these fools constituents that are praising it, even if the majority of them are ready to lynch them... only because it repeals Obamacare. They're like Pavlov's dog.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I totally agree. I'm on a first name basis with my house representative and his staff. They know me as the mostly angry constituent who has on occasion brought them donuts.

I gave up on my Senators several years ago.

The problem as I've come to recognize it is fundamentally systemic. It needs a rapid overhaul to the tune of something like the founding Brothers. How we get from point A to B? I'm open to a large discussion about that. My ideas would be considered radical. But it would look something like firing them all, bringing in new blood that weren't gifted things like a lifelong salary, life long health coverage, or cushy retirement plans, Representation would be a part time duty and they would return to their regular vocations for the other period of time... The Republic wouldn't breed career politicians. Instead they would be forced to do the will of the people and vote that way on the Hill.

The other missing piece is an actively engaged public stemming from the local level all the way to the top. It's not an easy change. I've lost hair thinking about the problems as a whole. Health care for the last ten years is only one example of the larger problem. I'm not sure how to go about fixing it, even though I have some ideas for a solution.

The opposition to these types of ideas are decisively fortified and entrenched. Overcoming those barriers would be an immense struggle.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Are you not entitled to protection from foreign agents - as our military provides? Surely you don't think a claymore laden yard and stockpile of AR15's and ammo would stop a Canadian military team if they decided they wanted someones property/life?

We benefit from the protection the military provides (paid for by mandated taxes) to satisfy our inalienable rights to life/liberty. Are you saying that we shouldn't have to provide taxes to pay for the military?



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Boadicea

You're wrong.


You didn't even read my comment. I cannot be "wrong" about something I didn't even say. How freaking pathetic.


A "right", a true "right" is not something that is dependent on others.


You mean like this:

We all have an absolute inalienable natural right to protect and defend our lives by nurturing and nursing our health... and we also have an absolute inalienable natural right to any and all of the bounty of the earth to do so. And, further, we have an absolute inalienable natural right to do so for ourselves and by ourselves and/or with any other consenting adults so inclined.

If you are not one of those consenting adults, okay... no one has the right to demand or force the service of anyone else.



Universal healthcare would require mandated participation in the form of taxes by those who pay taxes.


I never once even mentioned universal healthcare in my comment. Not once.

But okay. Gotcha. Thanks for the heads up.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: Kali74
A million times??? Thats is quite a hefty exaggeration.
I would say it as at lest 20%-50% better IMO. Especially for the budget.

Rule number one of healthcare: Health starts with the individual choosing to live healthy. When I told my neighbor that most people could avoid health issues in life by taking the education and knowledge given freely from the age of kids and life and eat appropriately. His reaction was to laugh and state people will do what they want. I then countered "ok well, guess what. When your 68 and bitching about your poor health and demanding subsidized care, the collective reaction will be to laugh, and say we told you so!" He did not like that at all.

I find it so ridiculous that most of my friends when I was younger are getting heavier and starting to feel the burdens of inactive lifestyle coupled with poor diet into their thirties now. I like to rub it in when they complain and I say "hey you remember when we use to party back when we was 16 and into our mid twenties, and you guys would always mock me for encouraging us all to workout more and stick to a better diet and say # like 'oh we only live once or I want to enjoy my life!' , yea how is that feeling now?"
Of course people get pissed when they are forced to confront the consequences of their choices, especially when their dickhead friend likes to be smug and rub it in

Anyways, its not really that bad. it is actually still better than what was around prior to Obama, even if only marginally.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: worldstarcountry

And those individuals born with congenital health issues?

What about the children diagnosed with leukemia at age two? Or the pregnant mother who can't afford the costs of health care despite working full time?

No... In many cases the choice to be healthy has nothing to do with reality of a situation. That black and white approach is never the case. We live in a world of mostly gray, even with health care.

The bill passed yesterday is going to cost people their lives through no actual CHOICE of their own. That's something the American public should not stand for.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: worldstarcountry

I recently had a few friends have heart attacks. Three in the last month. Two of the three are and have been in fantastic health and fitness for as long as I have known them. Hell, one is a personal trainer.

You are right in that eating and being healthy will have less health issues, but to pretend that by doing so you eliminate the need for healthcare is ignorant.



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