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Trump in NYC says Australia has better health care -- it has a universal coverage system

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posted on May, 5 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

A deductible is per person and per family.

I confess that it was a rhetorical question and I'm sorry that it made for extra work, though the figures are helpful in understanding your system. Here's an example of our system in action. I went to see my GP on an issue that I noted (free). Blood tests (free) and a trip to my urologist followed (free). Back to the urologist and then a biopsy (free). Whoops...prostrate cancer. Off to the oncologist for a consult (free). Treated by brachitherapy...insertion of 68 radioactive seeds to cook my giblets (free). Half a a dozen follow-ups until I'm free and clear (6 x free).
OK, I lied...out of pocket expenses of about $36 in parking fees. All that and my regular doctor's visits as needed.

My health card (Ontario, but good across Canada) is not free, of course, but it is just part of what is covered in our taxes. What do I pay in taxes? I don't know...what's important to me is deliverables, and we have a good standard of living given that we are subject to most of the same global forces as you guys are.

So do we sometimes have to wait to see a specialist? Yup. Can waits in Emerg be excessive? Yup (bring a book). It is by no means perfect. But medical bills will not cause us to lose our homes. That knowledge makes life (and illness) a lot easier to handle. Is this me being smug? No. This is me saying that you have better options and if you are being denied them...you're being #ed.




posted on May, 5 2017 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: queenofswords
I have a couple of questions for those in other countries that have State health care:

**First, it isn't really free, is it? I mean, you pay the government a tax instead of paying a private insurance company a premium....correct? How much is that tax per year? (At least with insurance companies, you can shop a competitor for better deals and services.)

We have Medicare in America for older citizens drawing Social Security, but the government still takes out $100 per month (tax) for it, not to mention the fact that for decades they took out a Medicare Tax from your paycheck. Medicare will pay 80% of medical costs, but some things are not covered, so a supplemental insurance policy is required to pick up what Medicare doesn't pay. Depending on the type of coverage you select, that can cost about $200-350 per month.

**Secondly, does a person willing to live in his/her parent's basement till they're 40 years old playing video games and mooching off mom and dad, get the same coverage as everyone else?

**Thirdly, since government bureaucrats manage the system, how much waste, fraud, and abuse is there? Just in Medicare and Medicaid (the program for low income and needy people) tens of billions of dollars are wasted yearly. And, of course, this is taxpayer money....money we give the government to manage and dispense.

Why anybody would want government bureaucrats as the go-between is beyond me. But, if that is all you have ever known, I guess you wouldn't care.




1) Tax varies per individual, however.the UK pays circa half of what the US does as a % of GDP. ( Private and state combined).

2) Yes. Cover does vary depending on where you live but not really by individual circumstances.

You can of course opt for additional private cover to get better cover.

3) The NHS employes less people in adminstrative & management type roles as a % of staff than most private companies. Could it be more efficient, absolutely. Show me any organisation that couldn't be.
edit on 5-5-2017 by ScepticScot because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm a bit of an "anarchist" myself. Well, at least moreso than the kids running around calling themselves such.


I believe that extensive decentralization leads to more stability, and faster advancement in any given arena.

All that said, I find it undeniable that some aspects benefit greatly from centralized structures, or at least a "universal" SOP. In a sense, I suppose it delves into semantics, but a decentralized structure can be universal. The issue becomes; can that system be self-correcting or does it require oversight? If implemented "correctly," I do think the latter can be accomplished without negating the decentralization.

In regards to healthcare, it seems society pays in one way or another regardless if it is socialized or profit-driven. In that, I think a part of the conversation should become about how to best minimize the lack of productivity and participation that results from health issues. Currently in the US, its not so great if examined in that light. In many cases, it directly introduces some very, very serious conflicts of interest.

I also happen to think that greed is not only a natural drive, but one that could be beneficial if we devised systems that produced different results due to different incentives. Bit off topic though, maybe.

Putting all that aside, has Trump ever specified whether he is against any and all healthcare systems beyond the current one, or just the ACA?



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Thank you for the mechanics of your system (best of health to you).

We (US) are definitely going through a major change. I can't see Trump's efforts, unless major changes are made, is nothing more than the can being kicked down the road. Sad



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

Well written response, and you make alot of good sense.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 07:07 PM
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originally posted by: pheonix358
Yes it has.

Profit based health care is just so wrong. It puts patients at the mercy of greedy Industrialists.

P


But I live in the UK, the doctors here are often rude or blase, I mean why would they need to be nice or actually do their job? They already have your money! Now you are just an inconvenience! They even have the "Liverpool care plan" here... Sounds nice right? It means they withold food and water until you die when they have given up with you... No lie... lol

Not sure a universal health system is all it cracked up to be...



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 07:10 PM
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a reply to: Meee32

Come to the US, get treated like SH and pay through the nose and more likely than not you still don't know what is going on with your health. People (dr.'s) can be ass hats.

Hospice is the same here in the US. They drug you up and withhold water and food.

Die you will-yoda



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 08:57 PM
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originally posted by: peskyhumans
a reply to: seasonal

BS. I talked with a corp mate in EVE Online years ago who lives in Australia. She was waiting on a waiting list for months to see a doctor at a military base. She didn't have a local doctor in her area and had to go see the one at the base. I remember her complaining about it nearly the whole time I was in that corp.

All the time we get crap about how great socialist medicine is, but if you talk to locals in these places you hear horror stories about waiting lists and healthcare rationing.


I think you're forgetting to mention that your "corp mate" is probably living in an extremely remote region which explains the lack of doctors.

I have never had to go on a "waiting list", nor have I even heard about "healthcare rationing" let alone experienced it. You are literally making stuff up and pretending it's real.

Take it from someone who LIVES HERE and sees doctors on a regular basis. It is no harder than walking into the clinic, presenting my little green Medicare card and then seeing a doctor.


The nice thing about capitalism is that if you have money, you can buy a service right now.

I don't want government involved in my healthcare. I don't want waiting lists. I don't want my services to be rationed. I want good old-fashioned capitalist healthcare. Keep the government out of it.


None of those things will happen. They haven't happened in countries that have universal healthcare, including my own, despite your made up nonsense claiming they do.

STOP THE FEARMONGERING NONSENSE AND DO SOME PROPER RESEARCH.




edit on 5/5/2017 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 08:58 PM
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originally posted by: queenofswords
I have a couple of questions for those in other countries that have State health care:

**First, it isn't really free, is it? I mean, you pay the government a tax instead of paying a private insurance company a premium....correct? How much is that tax per year? (At least with insurance companies, you can shop a competitor for better deals and services.)


2% Medicare Levy. That's it. We don't even notice it - and the benefits FAR outweigh the any negatives you may think up.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 09:00 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Maybe Australia does have better healthcare.

We're not Australia. We don't have the same form of government.

So apples/oranges.



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 12:30 AM
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originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: DanDanDat
I don't understand; how is it wrong to believe that both the Australian healthcare system is right for Australia and at the same time the AHA is right for the US? How are the two thoughts exclusive to each other? The last I check Australia was not the US and visa versa; they both have their own unequa challenges.

Now this is not to say the AHA is right for the US. Just that praising the Australian system for Australia is not an implication on the AHA.


I just listened to President Trump's comments to the press with the Australian pm sitting next to him. He said that right now with what we currently have, Australia's health care system is better, BUT, we are about to have really good health care soon. I don't think he was advocating for a single-payer system.


Yeah well during his campaign he also specifically stated that everyone would be covered. Another lie.



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 12:36 AM
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originally posted by: Meee32

originally posted by: pheonix358
Yes it has.

Profit based health care is just so wrong. It puts patients at the mercy of greedy Industrialists.

P


But I live in the UK, the doctors here are often rude or blase, I mean why would they need to be nice or actually do their job? They already have your money! Now you are just an inconvenience! They even have the "Liverpool care plan" here... Sounds nice right? It means they withold food and water until you die when they have given up with you... No lie... lol

Not sure a universal health system is all it cracked up to be...


I suggest you get a new doctor mate. At 31 I can honestly say my doctors, and hospital staff when I was ill have always been excellent. They're over-worked, not paid enough, and often have their time wasted by hypochondriacs.

Also your "they're salaried so why would they bother working hard" comment is a complete fallacy. Most doctors do it because they care. They want to help. You paint an incredibly unfair and unjustified view of our NHS. Even with the Tories trying to ruin it, it's one of the greatest systems in the world.



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree, they have a diff form of govt.

But to ignore something that works for the people is silly.

Like it the US health care system is in the throws of collapse. It is too expensive, does a sh job, and shows no inclination of being able to control itself (costs-horrible service).

There will be a change, we can control and plan the change now. In another 2 years what are we going to be dealing with?



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

Government got involved and made healthcare worse, in the US.

Was is great before?

It was better before government got involved, in my opinion.



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I am torn about the govt did it thing.

I know there are many instances where there are regs put on stuff. I seems no one ever goes back and looks to see if these regs are necessary now that it has been 4-5 years and the problem the regs "solved" in now no longer a concern.

Trump is supposed to reduce these regs (not in just health care).

I can't see the health care in the US going on like this much longer. It is another mortgage payment to an awful lot of families. Soon they will stop paying it. And the goose that laid the golden egg is laying raped and dead.
edit on 6-5-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

Eventually we will go to single-payer, socialized healthcare.

It's a fait accompli.

Once an entitlement program is introduced, it is impossible to reverse it.

This is a lasting legacy of Obama.

Love it, hate it, it's going to happen.


Notice how "repeal" has been redone as "repeal and replace".



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: seasonal
Maybe Australia does have better healthcare.
We're not Australia. We don't have the same form of government.
So apples/oranges.
That's all it takes to shut down your conversation about better health care? No wonder screwing you guys over has been such a cakewalk!



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

?

Have a nice day.



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Thank you for the mechanics of your system (best of health to you).
I should add that I do have supplemental benefits negotiated as part of my collective agreement. That includes some vision, dental, chiropractic and such, and a drug plan with a $25/yr co-pay. Benefit plans are pretty popular with employers (and my plan is one of the better ones) because they represent deferred wages instead of COB. Our province is now going towards pharmacare for kids 25 and under to fill some of the gaps. Seniors' meds are covered with a small co-pay ($2.00?) And yes, you can chose your own doctor (as long as he/she is accepting new patients to their practice.

It's not a hundred percent perfect...but you tell me...would you swap your Trumpcare for it?


originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck
?
Have a nice day.

I just don't understand your rationale "Maybe Australia does have better healthcare. We're not Australia. We don't have the same form of government. So apples/oranges."
But then I see you had more to say in a later post. If apologies are in order...you have mine.
edit on 6-5-2017 by JohnnyCanuck because: yes!



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Yes I would trade my ACA and I imagine the replacement will put a firm shaft in my too.

People are afraid of change. We have been told for the last 15-20 years that other systems to provide health care are going to ruin it. But guess what, it is now being ruined by profiteering and an insatiable quest for massive year over year profits.

If we do not tame the beast known as medical, we will see it crash. People will stop paying for insurance that they can't afford to use.



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