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...the beast was not is, is 8th, but Oh No, My God, it is 7 and it goes to perdition... :-(
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FULL QUOTE:
Revelation 17:11
(Jubilee Bible 2000)
And the beast that was, and is not, is also the eighth king, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.
When book of Revelation applies to present times, and we christians must apply it to present times, since we must always be prepared Jesus can come back any day (now), this has always been the past 2,000 years the case, this continious expectation of the parusy, Revelation has always been applied by the mystics for their present time, all through the past 2,000 years, so nothing wrong with that, its maybe pure christianity.
Anyways when a beast is 7th and later 8th it has an replica, like an android replica clone, a biological copy, maybe with remote control to some extent.
...how can it not know, what it is?...
Revelation 17:11
(Jubilee Bible 2000)
And the beast that was, and is not, is also the eighth king, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.
When book of Revelation applies to present times, and we christians must apply it to present times, since we must always be prepared Jesus can come back any day (now), this has always been the past 2,000 years the case, this continious expectation of the parusy, Revelation has always been applied by the mystics for their present time, all through the past 2,000 years, so nothing wrong with that, its maybe pure christianity.
Anyways when a beast is 7th and later 8th it has an replica, like an android replica clone, a biological copy, maybe with remote control to some extent.
...how can it not know, what it is?...
a reply to: galien8
Revelation 17:10-11
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
This is my understanding. When one takes into consideration when John received the Revelation.
1-Assyrian (fallen)
2-Egyptian (fallen)
3-Babylonian (fallen)
4-Median/Persian (fallen)
5-Greecian (fallen)
6-Roman (One Is)
7-NWO (One not yet come)
8th-Antichrist's kingdom following the abomination of desolation. (He will lead the 7th, die, return, and lead the 8th)
Revelation 17:10-11
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
This is my understanding. When one takes into consideration when John received the Revelation.
1-Assyrian (fallen)
2-Egyptian (fallen)
3-Babylonian (fallen)
4-Median/Persian (fallen)
5-Greecian (fallen)
6-Roman (One Is)
7-NWO (One not yet come)
8th-Antichrist's kingdom following the abomination of desolation. (He will lead the 7th, die, return, and lead the 8th)
edit on 5/4/2017 by Josephus because: clarification
originally posted by: Josephus
a reply to: galien8
I think in the context of Revelation 17 I would say they are both as it says they are seven mountains (kingdoms) and seven kings.
Rome is said to have been build on 7 mountains, this would be then the classic Rome (during the Revelation of / to John on Patmos) I think, because modern Rome is of course much bigger, could now be build on 30 mountains (hills)?
a reply to: galien8
An extract from my own thread on the subject;
The seven kings make their appearance in Revelation ch17 v10, as one of the explanations of the seven heads of the Beast.
The number "seven", in Revelation, is a number which points us towards the action of God.
The implication is that God is controlling the limits of the sequence- that's the number that he's willing to allow.
We know nothing about the first five, except that they have "fallen".
There's a king in the present, the one who "is".
And there's a king in the future, who remains "only a little while".
Then we're told that the Beast, "who was and is not", is an eighth and "out of" (EK) the seven. "One of their number" is the usual interpretation. Or, just possibly, "following on from them".
That word "Eighth" also has associations with Christ.
1 Peter ch3 v20 observes that eight persons were saved on the Ark, which is a symbol of the salvation made possible through Christ.
2 Peter ch2 v5, making exactly the same point, describes how Noah was saved from the Flood "as an eighth man" (OGDOON). However, that particular detail of number symbolism is invisible to the readers of most modern translations, which tend to give a rendering like "saved along with seven others". (This is one of my favourite examples of the drawbacks of paraphrase translation; if the writer of the paraphrase misses the point, he also makes it impossible for his readers to find it for themselves)
In addition to that, some of the early Fathers liked to observe that Christ was raised from the dead on what was effectively "the eighth day of the week", because it was the day following the seventh. So the event could be described as "the eighth day of Creation", because it completed and perfected the work of the original seven.
"Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which our Lord Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into heaven"- "Epistle of Barnabas"- 15 v9
If the Beast is taking a number which is associated with Christ, that may be an additional indication that it presents itself as an imitation of Christ
Part of the sequence of kings can be correlated with events in the other chapters of Revelation.
Presumably the sixth king, the one who "is", belongs to the time when John is receiving these visions.
That puts him in the first chapter of this book, which appears to be a time of tribulation for the church.
(in which case, the first five kings don't enter into the picture at all)
We know that the "eighth" is the Beast.
This means that the "seventh king" occupies the period between those two points.
That period includes the events of ch6, which come just before the rise of the Beast.
I think, then. we have just discovered why the seventh king remains "only a little while". His reign must be the one that is interrupted and cut short by the catastrophic events of the "Four Horsemen".
That gives us a rough timescale for these events.
The tribulation implied in ch1, and God's response to it in ch6, must be separated by the kind of interval which would place them under successive kings (or regimes?).
These kings relate to the Beast in two different ways- the seven are "the heads of the Beast", and the eighth is "the Beast itself".
The first appearance of the Beast with seven heads and ten horns comes at the beginning of ch13;
(My previous discussion of it can be found here; The Beast from the sea)
The Beast was rising out of the sea, like the various beasts of the vision of Daniel ch7.
Since the beasts of Daniel's vision represent kingdoms, that's the most natural way of understanding the Beast of ch13.
Following the analogy of the "four-headed leopard" in Daniel's vision, I suggested that the seven heads represented subordinate kingdoms, probably coming in sequence, and that the "Beast which recovered from a mortal wound" would be a revived version of one of them.
The Beast which appears in ch17 seems to be exactly the same Beast, though the place of origin is now given as "the bottomless pit".
I'm inclined to think that "the sea" and "the bottomless pit" are the same place, for symbolic purposes.
They both have their roots in the "deep" (ABYSSOS), from which God organised the universe at the beginning of Genesis.
In that story, the sea is part of "the deep"; it is the lower portion of the great waters, the portion that remains "below the firmament".
While the fact that the pit is "bottomless" (ABYSSOS) is a pointer in the same direction.
They both represent, in slightly different metaphors, "that part of the universe which God has not organised for human habitation".
This makes them suitable symbols in Revelation for the source of evil.
We're told that the Beast "was and is not and is to come".
This needs to be set against the way that ch1 describes the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come".
Clearly the difference between them is the opposition between those two central statements, "IS", and "IS NOT".
That is as far apart as it is possible for two statements to get, which makes the Beast the polar opposite of God.
This definition of the Beast is echoed in the "was and is not" of v11.
That seems to force the conclusion that the "eighth" of v11 is not any individual king, but the world dominating state (the Beast from the sea) itself.
An extract from my own thread on the subject;
The seven kings make their appearance in Revelation ch17 v10, as one of the explanations of the seven heads of the Beast.
The number "seven", in Revelation, is a number which points us towards the action of God.
The implication is that God is controlling the limits of the sequence- that's the number that he's willing to allow.
We know nothing about the first five, except that they have "fallen".
There's a king in the present, the one who "is".
And there's a king in the future, who remains "only a little while".
Then we're told that the Beast, "who was and is not", is an eighth and "out of" (EK) the seven. "One of their number" is the usual interpretation. Or, just possibly, "following on from them".
That word "Eighth" also has associations with Christ.
1 Peter ch3 v20 observes that eight persons were saved on the Ark, which is a symbol of the salvation made possible through Christ.
2 Peter ch2 v5, making exactly the same point, describes how Noah was saved from the Flood "as an eighth man" (OGDOON). However, that particular detail of number symbolism is invisible to the readers of most modern translations, which tend to give a rendering like "saved along with seven others". (This is one of my favourite examples of the drawbacks of paraphrase translation; if the writer of the paraphrase misses the point, he also makes it impossible for his readers to find it for themselves)
In addition to that, some of the early Fathers liked to observe that Christ was raised from the dead on what was effectively "the eighth day of the week", because it was the day following the seventh. So the event could be described as "the eighth day of Creation", because it completed and perfected the work of the original seven.
"Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which our Lord Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into heaven"- "Epistle of Barnabas"- 15 v9
If the Beast is taking a number which is associated with Christ, that may be an additional indication that it presents itself as an imitation of Christ
Part of the sequence of kings can be correlated with events in the other chapters of Revelation.
Presumably the sixth king, the one who "is", belongs to the time when John is receiving these visions.
That puts him in the first chapter of this book, which appears to be a time of tribulation for the church.
(in which case, the first five kings don't enter into the picture at all)
We know that the "eighth" is the Beast.
This means that the "seventh king" occupies the period between those two points.
That period includes the events of ch6, which come just before the rise of the Beast.
I think, then. we have just discovered why the seventh king remains "only a little while". His reign must be the one that is interrupted and cut short by the catastrophic events of the "Four Horsemen".
That gives us a rough timescale for these events.
The tribulation implied in ch1, and God's response to it in ch6, must be separated by the kind of interval which would place them under successive kings (or regimes?).
These kings relate to the Beast in two different ways- the seven are "the heads of the Beast", and the eighth is "the Beast itself".
The first appearance of the Beast with seven heads and ten horns comes at the beginning of ch13;
(My previous discussion of it can be found here; The Beast from the sea)
The Beast was rising out of the sea, like the various beasts of the vision of Daniel ch7.
Since the beasts of Daniel's vision represent kingdoms, that's the most natural way of understanding the Beast of ch13.
Following the analogy of the "four-headed leopard" in Daniel's vision, I suggested that the seven heads represented subordinate kingdoms, probably coming in sequence, and that the "Beast which recovered from a mortal wound" would be a revived version of one of them.
The Beast which appears in ch17 seems to be exactly the same Beast, though the place of origin is now given as "the bottomless pit".
I'm inclined to think that "the sea" and "the bottomless pit" are the same place, for symbolic purposes.
They both have their roots in the "deep" (ABYSSOS), from which God organised the universe at the beginning of Genesis.
In that story, the sea is part of "the deep"; it is the lower portion of the great waters, the portion that remains "below the firmament".
While the fact that the pit is "bottomless" (ABYSSOS) is a pointer in the same direction.
They both represent, in slightly different metaphors, "that part of the universe which God has not organised for human habitation".
This makes them suitable symbols in Revelation for the source of evil.
We're told that the Beast "was and is not and is to come".
This needs to be set against the way that ch1 describes the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come".
Clearly the difference between them is the opposition between those two central statements, "IS", and "IS NOT".
That is as far apart as it is possible for two statements to get, which makes the Beast the polar opposite of God.
This definition of the Beast is echoed in the "was and is not" of v11.
That seems to force the conclusion that the "eighth" of v11 is not any individual king, but the world dominating state (the Beast from the sea) itself.
edit on 5-5-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)
a reply to: galien8
The book of Revelation applies to the time in which it was written, not 2,000 years later or today, if at all about the future "only the Father knows times."
We know 666 = Nero in Gematria and that he WAS the Beast who was a man with the #666, it's Nero.
The 7 churches receive letters about then and not about today, that's history and they're all dead now.
Apocalyptic imagery is METAPHORICAL and to take such things literally will make you look like a lunatic.
Every year and generation thought what you do, the one's without understanding of how to read Apocalyptic literature of which that is 1 of many, Daniel is another and also fulfilled when Greece ruled and Antiochus Epiphanies.
The parousia was supposed to happen in Paul's time and he is obviously no prophet because it never happened. It's a ridiculous doctrine and futile as "Only the Father knows."
According to Jesus (pbuh) even HE doesn't know if/when Apocalypse will play out, but I doubt we'll be the generation that it ACTUALLY occurs in and not the 2000 other years worth of lunatics who thought the same thing.
When a cube descends with 12 of everything is when "New Jerusalem" and Revelation will unfold.
That is, never, because it was never meant to be interpreted literally. It's a long metaphor for the time of John at Patmos and the events of his day.
No prophecy has ever come true from Apocalypse. Not one.
METAPHOR.
Dragons don't exist or sweep stars out of the sky with their tale, beasts don't have 7 heads (thats 7 hills of Rome, a METAPHOR), men aren't named 600 60 and 6, although Nero's name equalled it in Greek and Hebrew and was 616 in some Latin versions because it equalled 616 in Latin, it's definitely Nero and definitely about the first century from start to finish.
It was a coded message for people then and has no relevance to today, is fantasy.
The book of Revelation applies to the time in which it was written, not 2,000 years later or today, if at all about the future "only the Father knows times."
We know 666 = Nero in Gematria and that he WAS the Beast who was a man with the #666, it's Nero.
The 7 churches receive letters about then and not about today, that's history and they're all dead now.
Apocalyptic imagery is METAPHORICAL and to take such things literally will make you look like a lunatic.
Every year and generation thought what you do, the one's without understanding of how to read Apocalyptic literature of which that is 1 of many, Daniel is another and also fulfilled when Greece ruled and Antiochus Epiphanies.
The parousia was supposed to happen in Paul's time and he is obviously no prophet because it never happened. It's a ridiculous doctrine and futile as "Only the Father knows."
According to Jesus (pbuh) even HE doesn't know if/when Apocalypse will play out, but I doubt we'll be the generation that it ACTUALLY occurs in and not the 2000 other years worth of lunatics who thought the same thing.
When a cube descends with 12 of everything is when "New Jerusalem" and Revelation will unfold.
That is, never, because it was never meant to be interpreted literally. It's a long metaphor for the time of John at Patmos and the events of his day.
No prophecy has ever come true from Apocalypse. Not one.
METAPHOR.
Dragons don't exist or sweep stars out of the sky with their tale, beasts don't have 7 heads (thats 7 hills of Rome, a METAPHOR), men aren't named 600 60 and 6, although Nero's name equalled it in Greek and Hebrew and was 616 in some Latin versions because it equalled 616 in Latin, it's definitely Nero and definitely about the first century from start to finish.
It was a coded message for people then and has no relevance to today, is fantasy.
a reply to: galien8
Did you just use the word "Illuminati" as if it were real???
No wonder you think a book of symbolic imagery is history but written 2,000 years ago about the generation in which YOU just happen to live.
Nobody has EVER been made a fool by fiending for Har-Meggido to happen as described by Apocalypse...!
It is not totally insane to think, even HOPE, the misery of that book became a reality. Why would anyone want that?
Because they actually think they will be "raptured" because of their religous affiliation!!!
Everyone else is screwed!!!
Yeah right...
Did you just use the word "Illuminati" as if it were real???
No wonder you think a book of symbolic imagery is history but written 2,000 years ago about the generation in which YOU just happen to live.
Nobody has EVER been made a fool by fiending for Har-Meggido to happen as described by Apocalypse...!
It is not totally insane to think, even HOPE, the misery of that book became a reality. Why would anyone want that?
Because they actually think they will be "raptured" because of their religous affiliation!!!
Everyone else is screwed!!!
Yeah right...
originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: galien8
Nobody has EVER been made a fool by fiending for Har-Meggido to happen as described by Apocalypse...!
God is going to do the depopulation (some scolars say extermination for 75% of world population, for it was spoken in the prophecy, my son will rule through me, through him I rule this land) no human or "beast" should have all that blood on his hands
This is my belief and my pursuit for happiness
for the son-of-man sake
AMEN
PS: All major world problems, to much to handle, are overpopulation
>
originally posted by: galien8
originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: galien8
Nobody has EVER been made a fool by fiending for Har-Meggido to happen as described by Apocalypse...!
God is going to do the depopulation (some scolars say extermination for 75% of world population, for it was spoken in the prophecy, my son will rule through me, through him I rule this land) no human or "beast" should have all that blood on his hands
This is your reply to me telling you that Revelation hasn't ever prophecied anything? Why?
This is my belief and my pursuit for happiness
You could be one of the 3/4 who die, that makes you happy, that the other option is that 75% of the world dies for no reason, and that it is the work of God?
And you think this is what God wants, that it's good that all those people who don't have to, do, die?
It's a source happiness for you?
for the son-of-man sake
FYI, "son of man" is an idiom in Hebrew for a son of adam, a son of a man, any man.
How does dying benefit the 3 out of 4 who die and how is that for ANYONE'S sake?
Anybody not a sociopath, that is?
AMEN
PS: All major world problems, to much to handle, are overpopulation
No, they are because of people like you who BELIEVE that is a problem and think it needs a solution that involves the biggest genocide ever.
And the people who misinform you are the problem because it is not just you.
You spoke to God, he TOLD YOU, that he would exterminate 75% of the world...
And you didn't realize it was Satan? God is love not "extermination" and only a fanatic would believe that because of a book that doesn't even say it!!!
3/4? What field of scholarship do academics sit around predicting the extermination of 3/4 of all people because of the book of Revelation?
That's idiocy and if true, planned genocide.
Because God won't have a thing to do with it.
This makes you happy, even though the worlds population could fit in an area as large as Texas?
You are NOT happy because you know anything, if you are it is because people will (you hope) die EN MASSE.
WOW
edit on 6-5-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-5-2017 by Disturbinatti because: (no reason
given)
originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: galien8
Are you saying that you are the lamb of God as in Jesus(pbuh)?
...there is no prophet in the seed...
originally posted by: Disturbinatti
How does dying benefit the 3 out of 4 who die and how is that for ANYONE'S sake?
Anybody not a sociopath, that is?
We take these lives so that others may live
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