It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Christ: My Kingdom is Not of this world/ D.T. Exec.Order: Churches to do Politics being Tax exempt

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 4 2017 @ 04:09 PM
link   
The Peace of God to all that belong to the Light
Dear Readers,

Although I consider as highly positive to move to a possible prohibition and so penalization of Abortion in America, since It is not just only a barbarian practice under the lens of religious principles, but also a clear violation of the Human Rights of the none yet born Americans at hands of the ones that are already adult, based on a perverted interpretation of personal freedom, It seems extremely also risky this step that we are seeing today that could politicize the Religious arena of the country as never seen before in at least 67 years.

This Presidential Executive order has its good side, the commitment of the State in to reconsider the extend of the birth control practices and condemn absolutely the ones that represent destruction of the already conceived human lives, but at the same time there are aspects on it that look as a attempt to transfer the free decision of voting from the voters to their religious leaders, who may take the decision to commit the votes of their followers in one specific direction in politics, or what is even worst to start to do politics from the altar instead to be really committed to their spiritual work role.

Also in the Negative side of it is that although as all the other controversial ones that we have seen in this year are subject to the revision and possible veto by the congress, this is based on a so doubtful interpretation of bill of rights, one that if it is true means we have been living for about 7 decades of their violation!

The wrong assumption is the Not so much clearly established supposed controversy that might exist in between the bill of rights and the Johnson Amendment.

The clear risk here is to revive political practices that in the past have only brought corruption and mediocrity to the political arena, as well as, to have discredited terribly the exercise of organized religion in America, for the appealing payoff that Abortion can be banned definitively as an uncivilized practice.

Please check:

D.Trump Executive Order on Religious Institutions

Another factor here to consider, is that this Order is not only going against the necessary separation in between state and churches that is part of the essential values over which our founder fathers defined the secular philosophy of the American revolution in XVIII century but also contradicts the also clear separation between the path of spiritual salvation that Jesus predicated two thousand years ago, and ideological or partisan politics.

Jesus always rejected a political role in his public life, he never accepted to link his movement in to any of the political factions that existed in Israel during his times, he was neither an anarchist, neither a revolutionary against Rome nor a supporter of a unity between Religion and State. He offered a path of salvation open for all the diversity of the society of Palestine in his time, but moreover he clearly established that his was not a movement to serve nationalism, racism or any other form of discrimination against minorities.

Jesus Christ was condemned and executed in a intentionally biased summary trial that was basically a political one, carried out by professional politicians but accused by religious leaders with extremely clear links with the political establishment, leaders that were more worried about how to defend their position of authority and privileges granted by the status quo in between Rome and the Jewish Sanhedrin.

It is not a violation of Bills or Rights that every American obey fundamentally his or her conscience in the Act of voting than instructions given by religions leaders which role by definition has nothing to do with Politics. Interpretation of political issues from a religious perspective also can vary from who is doing the interpretation, specially in America where there is an incredible diversity of creeds.

Many of the most obscure chapters in History of religious fundamentalism, like the the Spanish Inquisition, the terrible purges of the religious minorities in England under Henry VIIIth, the Protestant tribunals that carried out the witches hunting in New England, The Garrote Vil repression era under Francisco Franco in Spain, or the fundamentalist Islamic states violating human rights have been performed in moments in which political and religious power where in the same hands.

please check:
Johnson Amendment of 1954


Passed in 1954 – and named for then-Texas Sen. Lyndon Johnson, the future president – the Johnson Amendment says that churches and other non-profit institutions that are exempt from taxation "are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of [or in opposition to] any candidate for elective public office." The IRS says that "violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes."


The thread is opened to discuss the important topic of the necessary balance that must exist in between separation of Religious and Political power, without allowing the anarchists to let certain medical practices to cross the border of what is really ethical in to convert physicians in murders or mutilators of innocent children with the approval of denatured and selfish mothers and even fathers.


St John 18, Jesus Before Pilate (Matthew 27:11-14; Luke 23:1-6)
28Then they led Jesus away from Caiaphas into the Praetorium.
By now it was early morning, and the Jews did not enter the Praetorium to avoid being defiled and unable to eat the Passover.
29So Pilate went out to them and asked, “What accusation are you bringing against this man?”
30“If He were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed Him over to you.”
31“You take Him and judge Him by your own Law,” Pilate told them. “We are not permitted to execute anyone,” the Jews replied.
32This was to fulfill the word that Jesus had spoken to indicate the kind of death He was to die.
33Pilate went back into the Praetorium, summoned Jesus, and asked Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
34“Are you saying this on your own,” Jesus asked, “or did others tell you about Me?”
35“Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed You over to me. What have You done?”
36Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now, My kingdom is not of this realm.”


Anyway it is interesting the content of this Presidential Executive order and it deserves to be fully discussed here and measured in all the possible extend that may have at future.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 5/4/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 4 2017 @ 04:16 PM
link   
What about genital mutilation?



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 04:21 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light

Political ideology mixed with religious ideology.

Like they have in the Middle East?

Gotta say, even as a Trump supporter, this is one ####ed up law.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 04:22 PM
link   
I don't see any love towards your fellow man in your post at all
Just a person lost in condemnation and politics

You are right, they don't mix



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 04:26 PM
link   
a reply to: jokei

You are mentioning another very important variant of this same theme:

Personal freedom to be happy sexually and affectionately must not open the doors for situations in which people is allowed to mutilate themselves in an insane way.

There must be a limit on to what extend medicine can alter the body characteristics of a person, and offer "cures" of situations that are more related with emotional balance or the way self esteem and self image is organized in the mind.

I think there has been a progress in the last years among the different religious sectors to start to open their minds to the possibility that religion has been used in a fundamentalist way to bully and violate human rights of the minority groups that represent the sexual diversity, and stop those practices and return to a more inclusive and tolerant spirituality.

Nevertheless, there must be also a limit of what can be referred as truly diversity, the change of gender surgeries are Not just only that, are sterilization operations and moreover are changing the natural chemistry of the body to try to creating an artificially style of life absolutely dependent of hormones in a clear invasive way.

Anyway under age people never be subject of such irreversible procedures, at least until they really realize all the consequences they can produce for the rest of their lives, not only the ones that look beneficial but also the ones that are going to be painful.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 5/4/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 04:26 PM
link   
Just as long as Christianity and only Christianity is deemed the legitimate religion by the State; then we should be ok in the eyes of God.
edit on 4-5-2017 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 05:34 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light

i feel sorry for anyone come judgment day that went thru surgery to "change gender". of course for the fools out there, there is no judgement day right? it will be a bad day indeed.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 05:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: olaru12
Just as long as Christianity and only Christianity is deemed the legitimate religion by the State; then we should be ok in the eyes of God.


And what makes you think that Congress would do that?

In doing so, the USA would follow the Vatican as being the only officially Christian (from a legislative viewpoint) nation.
Then it would empower much discrimination against other religions.

The worst case scenario would the USA becoming a purist Christian state living under Mosaic law. Even though this completely goes against Christ's actual ideology, plenty of fundamentalists believe this is how we should live.

Religion has a right to exist, but one must look to it out of free will. Empowering Religion to gain political power will open a Pandora's box full of unforeseen and mostly negative consequences. A beard and Burqa revolution (Islamic Sharia law) is also not out of the question of this is allowed through.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 06:24 PM
link   
I thought religion served as a spiritual side of life, not to get in state affairs.

Next, religion will be allowed to forget about the word of God and worship trends.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 06:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: luciferslight

Next, religion will be allowed to forget about the word of God and worship trends.


Already there.

First Church Of The Holy Facebook Page

*can I get a like?*



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 07:02 PM
link   
a reply to: markosity1973




Religion has a right to exist, but one must look to it out of free will. Empowering Religion to gain political power will open a Pandora's box full of unforeseen and mostly negative consequences.


Isn't that President Trump's ultimate ideal. What negative consequences making... America Great Again for when Jesus returns to kill all the unrepentant sinners with his sword of righteousness.... Believe me...
edit on 4-5-2017 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 07:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: markosity1973




Religion has a right to exist, but one must look to it out of free will. Empowering Religion to gain political power will open a Pandora's box full of unforeseen and mostly negative consequences.


Isn't that President Trump's ultimate ideal. What negative consequences making... America Great Again for when Jesus returns to kill all the unrepentant sinners. Believe me...


No need to wait for Jesus. The law as it stands will empower Wahhabi Islamists to form their little microstates and breed up loads of new terrorists. Then the USA will understand what Europe is going through.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 07:12 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light


Trumps order demonstrates the presumptiveness and/or lack or understanding of the true and the real constitutional status of an independent and constitutionally protected outlet of redress, like the press.

What would an EO look like if this were toward the press? Folks would be outraged as the press resides in a constitutional safe zone paying taxes on income generated by for profit status. But that isnt what protects the press from persecution. Same with the church. Don't need Cesar protection.....have constitution.


edit on 4-5-2017 by Logarock because: n



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 10:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: jokei
What about genital mutilation?


It's obvious the political establishment that controls the college campuses that uphold the far out aspects of the LGBT movement like hormone therapy for children have a say.

Shouldn't religious organizations be able to support candidates publicly in their churches that oppose genital mutilation?

Keep the playing field level. That's what Trump did.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 10:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: Miracula2

originally posted by: jokei
What about genital mutilation?


It's obvious the political establishment that controls the college campuses that uphold the far out aspects of the LGBT movement like hormone therapy for children have a say.



You raise an interesting point there. I think that side needs reigning in too.



Shouldn't religious organizations be able to support candidates publicly in their churches that oppose genital mutilation?

Keep the playing field level.


Religion and power do not mix well. Look carefully at the Vatican - there are so many scandals swept under the rug in that tiny microstate it is mind boggling.

Look at the Caliphate of ISIS - daily life there is worse that it was in Nazi Germany and worse that it was in concentration camps if one is a non Muslim.

It's okay to be a politician and a Chrisitian. But it's quite dangerous when we get Christian politicians. Or Muslim ones. etc etc.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 11:25 PM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light

I highly doubt that this EO will pass legal muster and hold up if challenged, which it will be, eventually. The main problem is that it gives the IRS "discretion" in enforcing the Johnson Amendment, whatever that means. How does that work without violating the 14th Amendment of equal protection under the law. Who decides which non-profits get punished for crossing the line because of this EO, and which ones don't?

Ultimately, US TAX code is the purview of Congress, not the president through EOs.



posted on May, 4 2017 @ 11:40 PM
link   
You all really should read the EO, and then find something to pick at, instead of listing to what the Corporate Media tells you.



posted on May, 5 2017 @ 07:42 PM
link   
a reply to: markosity1973

First at all markosity, Mosaic law is not part of the truly Christian way of thinking, Jesus came to establish a new covenant , one in which there is no place for things like eye for eye, and or tooth for tooth, is one based in mutual love, mutual forgiveness.

Second, The vatican is not the best example of anything that refers to State linked with religion, for the simple reason that it is a city state created to protect a religious organization of a state that was extremely secular and also that was willing to take by force all the properties of the Catholic church, the Italian Republic.

The State of Vatican is almost the smallest of the world, just half of a square kilometer but represent the organization of a religion that covers one fifth of the population of the world, and that is spread along many nations, many of which are absolutely secular like USA, Mexico, Italy, France, etc.

Now, I agree with you that in large states like it is the case of America to have a joint between religions and State is risky, but we must consider that this is a nation that is plural in faiths, there so many churches, so it can't be also a single official religion.

Since its birth as a nation America had other faiths, the Native Americans were all pagans, there were groups that it is difficult to enroll in strictly defined Christianism, like the Quakers, and there were Jews, many of which were very involved in the Revolution against Britain.

Some of the founder fathers like it is the case of Tomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin were not enrolled actively in any church, they were free thinkers, philosophical minds, perhaps agnostics.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness





edit on 5/5/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 07:56 AM
link   
a reply to: The angel of light

Assemblies of Christians are not required to have a 501c unless they want to give people receipts for giving so they can have write offs at the end of the year, and employee people for the work of the ministry.

Assemblies can have a building in a living trust so that as long as they are meeting in a building listed in the trust no one can sell it out right and that only by a members vote because they are no longer meeting there.

The members take care of the building taxes each year, they take care for the grounds keeping and The building should be up to local code for an assembly along with all permits, no need that the church have paid laypeople or employees or that the pastor receive a salary, that must be taxed.

No let each member exercise their spiritual gifts as found in Romans 12, Eph 4 and 1Cor 12. There is no reason for them to get a 501c. The 501c only allows organized leadership of the organization to keep 90% of the money for salaries while only 10% has to be spent on actual ministry to the people and building. THIS IS HOW THE CLINTON FAMILY FOUNDATION OPERATES 10% TO THE ACTUAL CHARITY AND 90% TO THEM AND FAMILY MEMBERS ON THE BOARD.

This type of Christian Assembly, outlined above, then can engage in political speech and activism, and cannot be placed under suit for violating the separation of church and state rule, because they are not enjoined by the IRS who controls them in order that they may have the tax exempt status.

This is how the assembly is to be ran. The church model today is nothing more than a business model promoted by the Religious Elite and their schools around the country and world as a way of making money. Jesus is appalled by this type of apparatus


edit on 6-5-2017 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2017 @ 01:52 PM
link   
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Hi Dear ChesterJohn,

I think your post touch a very sensitive point of this discussion, certainly there is profit among some religious organizations, that supposedly by definition must be non profit ones.

The media has been talking for years of the scandalous life of some of the most famous TV Show pastors of the country, some of them are even famous for their ostentation of a certainly not poor style of life, or have been involved in some sort of financial scandals, some of them were charged or even convicted like Richard Roberts, Kent Hobind, Paul and Jan Crouch, others have been mentioned as accused like Joel Osteen according with reports of the media.

Please check:

www.theblaze.com...

letmetellyouthis.wordpress.com...

www.reference.com...

allchristiannews.com...

Nevertheless, we can't generalize against all the people working in religious organizations, many of them have spent years trying to fill the social gap that exist in many disfavored sectors where there public aid is not good enough and no body else in the private sector is interested in to help.

Jesuits are famous for Their missions helping black people since the early years of the XX century, St Katharine Drexel founded Catholic schools all around the country to help educate native Americans and African Americans in times of segregation, even she founded in Louisiana the very first University of Black people.

Baptist churches have provided even health care to many people in southern states that were not protected by the government coverage and didn't have health insurance. Adventists are also very reputed in to have promoted and invested into expand the practice of a healthy style of life in the communities they are immersed.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness





edit on 5/7/2017 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
5

log in

join