Spelunking...... Why ?

a reply to: Discotech
I wouldn't do it myself, but in a way it's just the reverse of mountain climbing.
"Because it's there".

I can't really say I've gone "spelunking", but there was a "boulder field" type area that went up the side of a hill in the woods where I practically lived in my free time. There was this one little cave under the one boulder where you have to slide in squeezed inbetween two boulders, and since your feet don't reach the ground, you have to just let yourself drop down into the darkness. Getting back out of that one was rather interesting, but this guy went in one time and found a way to get back out through another hole elsewhere. Another time, a friend of mine dropped her phone down this random hole, so we had to squeeze ourselves down into it underneath the boulders where we had no idea where it went. We almost got stuck. All in all, it was pretty cool exploring the little nooks and crannies and caves, but I'm probably lucky I didn't get stuck somewhere. I guess it's just a sense of adventure or something.

*Not my pictures, I just found these from other people:

a reply to: Discotech

Why? Because spelunking is only for those whose testicles or ovaries are made of steel.

I've climbed through trees and climbed mountains when I was a kid and could've died and while I was young and dumb and looking back I shudder at how stupid I was.

But the thrill...If a rock or branch gave away i'd die, but if I got to the top then yeehaw!!! I can understand the thrill but I like my internal organs intact these days.

originally posted by: NwoDedispU
a reply to: Discotech

The last video was so sad. Poor John and his family. He was stuck for 27 hours upside down. That is a terrible way to die.

What's worse is he's still stuck down there, they never recovered his body because they deemed it too unsafe for rescue workers because he wouldn't be able to help them get him up. So they sealed off the cave with concrete and it's now his grave, I wouldn't want that at all

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I still seek thrills now though, diving wouldn't phase me, nor would sky diving, I enjoy climbing mountains, but for some reason a cave just seems so alien to me

Oh bugger. I've been calling it 'kersplunking' in my local pub recently. Loudly. No wonder they were laughing.

a reply to: Discotech

I saw they sealed it with cement and left his body down there. Sad. s/f for your thread.

a reply to: Discotech

Thankyou for that.

My next year's nightmares are sorted now

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Always seemed like good harmless fun to me.

I'm more of a Dig Dug kinda guy.

Spelunking is awesome. Its like an extreme version of exploring old buildings.
Which is awesome too.

a reply to: Discotech

Ive done it several times...but Im for bigger caves with less chance of getting into trouble.

a reply to: NwoDedispU

After watching the video I have conflicting feelings about what happened.

Of course I feel terrible for the guy because that is a horrible way to go. I also feel terrible for the family who have to live with knowing that their loved one passed in such a horrible way. It's tragic that the (at the time) one year old will never get to really know her father.

That being said.....

How selfish was this guy? You have a wife and a young child and you need to go out and intentionally bring danger into your life?

Prior to having our son, every February we would take a road trip to a neighboring state to (legally in that state) purchase fireworks from a reputable outlet. We would store them safely until our 4th of July BBQ. All that changed the minute our son was conceived. The moment we knew we were going to be parents we understood that our lives were primarily going to be lived to raise, nurture, teach and guide our child. In our case, we didn't need to do things that could get us arrested (or worse) to get our jollies.

Side Note: So they never were able to retrieve the body and they sealed him in the cave? I imagine that is difficult for the family to deal with.

a reply to: eluryh22

I see your side and understand. It was sad the way he died but you are right he made a choice to do this.

awww mate...
damn pity, brings a tear to my eye..

a reply to: NwoDedispU

I've got to tell you, this story (John Jones) has haunted me in a way that I haven't been haunted by a story in quite some time.

In my own way, in trying to process this story in my own mind I started to realize some of the elements that are causing me to think about it.

During my lunch break today I read anything and everything I could find on this story. It's essentially a cut-and-dry story so most of the articles were redundant.

I did come across two articles (from I think the Salt Lake City Times) that went into some further details and had some interviews with some of the rescuers. These people were destroyed by their inability to complete the rescue and I feel for them.

1) Additional Information: Something that I don't think was mentioned in the short video that was posted to this thread is that at a point, they actually managed to pull him several feet out of "THE" hole, when one of their anchors in the cave wall failed and he dropped back to his original position. What also wasn't mentioned that when this mechanism failed, it bashed one of the rescuers right in the face, knocking him unconscious. By all accounts, he was luck that he wasn't killed or blinded by the impact. (He have part of his tongue partially severed, sustained a concussion and suffered some other injuries). All these things further keep me stuck on this story.

2) My Lack of Knowledge: I know NOTHING about "caving." When I was a kid we took a few road trips and went on those tours of "caves" or "caverns" but they were typical tourist attractions. Walkways with lights and stairs and railings. Even at that, and as cool as seeing stalactites and stalagmites, I never felt fully comfortable until we were back up top. (It was cool seeing some fish that through evolution, got rid of their eyes over the millennia because they lived exclusively underground).

3) Getting Stuck LIKE THAT!!! I also wasn't surprised but sort of WAS surprised that people do THIS type of cave exploration. Wriggling through tiny holes like that? So the more I thought about and processed the image in my mind of what this would have LOOKED LIKE is something out of the worst kind of horror movie. The moment that you first realize you are stuck? The moment that your friends and brother can't pull you out? Then knowing that even the professionals are having trouble? Each level must have been an absolute nightmare.

Listen, my "getting stuck story" is one time after a hurricane I was working on a beach restoration project and stepped into what I though was a dry patch of sand and instantly sunk up to my knees. Initially it lasted a second but time goes slow and I wondered "When am I going to stop sinking?!!?!?!?!?" So there I was up to my knees and it took me a couple of minutes to wriggle out of it. However, I COULD STILL MOVE!!!! I can't imagine EVER being in a scenario where I am entirely motionless by being trapped.... by solid rock.... FAR underneath the surface of the friggen Earth!!!

4) NOT a "Normal" Way to Need Help: When do we need help of police or EMTs? As horrific as these things are and as unique as the are to the person that needs help.... typically we need help because we are in a car accident or slipped on ice or something like that. In my mind, the entire concept of trying to free someone that is trapped hundreds of feet underground is almost beyond my comprehension.

5) The Help was RIGHT THERE!!!: Now THIS really haunts me. It's one thing is someone is trapped somewhere that nobody can reach. This was not that. The rescuers were literally right next to him. They were able to speak with him. They managed to tie mesh ropes to him. I can't say for sure but I suspect that almost always, when rescuers can physically touch the person they are trying to help, they can at least get that person out of the immediate danger (and hopefully the person survives the aftermath).

6) That Anchor that Failed: As I mentioned, they had managed to start lifting him out of his death trap when one of the anchoring mechanisms failed and he fell back. Nobody seems to know or even have a strong opinion on it (because he had crawled through a "corkscrew" before he even got stuck in the first place) but I can't help but wonder what would have happened if that anchor didn't fail?

7) The Photo of the Feet: I can't get this freaking image out of my mind. In the video they specifically indicate that the photo of the feet and a few inches of leg sticking out of the ground was NOT John Jones. However, by all accounts I have read, it looked VERY similar. Right off the bat, that photo creeped me the hell out. To be candid, because of how I tend to ponder and ponder and ponder things, I wish I'd never seen it. So that, in and of itself, is haunting and creepy.... but....

Reading what the people said who tried to help him (his friend, his brother, rescuers) describe what it was like when they approached him was horrible. It seems that across the board, and these are my words pulling together all of theirs, the moment that they made whatever turn and saw that..... they knew it was serious trouble. I can image the surprised/horrified facial expressions of each and every individual at the moment they saw it.

8) GET ME OUT OF HERE!!! According to what I read, although over the first few hours he was calm, as time went by he started (understandably) switching back and forth from calm to DESPERATE. What was it like for him to be trapped in that manner, knowing on some level things weren't headed in the right direction, to be screaming and pleading and begging, "Get me out of here!!" By extension, what was it like for the rescuers? It's almost unbearable for me to contemplate, sitting comfortably in my nice warm home.

9) He is STILL there!!!: As mentioned in the video. His body is still there; now sealed behind concrete. The family accepted it and the rescuers and authorities (of which I assume some of which cared) so I have no formal gripe. I do find it horrific though. (I know dead bodies are everywhere... I'm in construction and on certain sites we need an archeologist present during excavation). I get it; but the manner in which he died and knowing he is still there, upside down like that, it is disturbing me.

10) You Friggen MORON!!!: I mentioned this on my previous post that although I feel horrible for this guy and his families and the rescuers (and this empathy or sympathy or whichever has only grown over the last day)..... Are you a friggen MORON John Jones? I mean, seriously! I could almost (ALMOST) look the other way if you were a complete newbie and couldn't appreciate the dangers. BUT YOU KNEW BETTER!!!!

He had a wife and kid and another on the way. I'm not saying that once you become a dad you have to make your life dull and boring. Listen, that Thanksgiving holiday the family went to go check out a new cave they had never been to before. Ok. They all went in there to a large area that was relatively safe called Big Slide or whatever it was called. THAT WASN'T ENOUGH!?!?!?!? He just HAD TO go and find the most difficult place he could find? He HAD TO?

Conclusion-ish:: Sorry for the wall of text but part of my process is to just get it out so that's what I did here. I could go on but fortunately for ATS, I'm outta time at the moment.

a reply to: eluryh22

You explained this better than the video. I too am haunted by this. It will not leave my mind.

You wrote the above beautifully!

I grew up exploring the plethora of caves and mine shafts in my area. I think some people have a sense of adventure and almost feel obligated to investigate the unknown. That being said, I've always been claustrophobic and I'd turn back as soon as the passageway became tight. No way in hell I'd squeeze headfirst into a narrow tunnel!

a reply to: eluryh22

Really well put, and i totally get what you said...when i think of the thoughts and emotions of everyone involved its heartbreaking, angering and terrifying all at the same time.

When i think of myself being trapped in this situation it just fills me with complete dread and terror...as i said in an earlier post i have had a re-occurring dream since childhood of being in a situation like this...and it takes me a good day or 2 after to get it out of my mind again...no idea why i have had this re-occur over the years though as i have never been even close to a situation like this or not as far as i am aware anyway.