House passes GOP Health Bill.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
So please explain why this will be a good thing for Americans.

I'll take an easy swing at this one: because it represents the GOP representative in Congress actually (and finally) doing something they all campaigned on, and were elected on; repealing the ACA. We all knew what we were voting for when we voted for them, and it's nice to see that bear some fruit.

That's a non-answer. Try again. How is this a good thing for Americans?

Free market/competition will be some what restored.

How will that allow more Americans access to affordable health care?

I have little doubt this will suck as much as Obamacare.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
This only proves that insurance companies are an enemy of the people and should be shut down. Single Payer is the only way forward--- this system of greed controlled by insurance companies is f###ing evil.

You really support creating a SUPER MONOPOLY for health insurance.

That's might totalitarian there.

originally posted by: dragonlover12
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Hmmm... insurance thru employer costs $1000 per month.
Has a $16,000 deductible. And then only pays 80% if you are lucky.
I`d say that is pretty much unusable. Prior to Ocare the plan at work was $200 a month, with a $20 copay at the doctors office and $100 copay for ER or hospital admission.

That was a rational plan .

The new plan comes with preventative care. Your old plan probably had crappy coverage for the low price. That is why it was canceled. If you actually needed it it wouldn't help you despite paying into it. That was the point I was making. Either that or you are exaggerating your current policy and/or your previous policy.

Look. I'm not saying that Obamacare is a perfect system or anything, but it is WAAAAAAY better than what the Republicans are attempting here. Which will result in MANY Americans dying from being kicked off of insurance.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
So please explain why this will be a good thing for Americans.

I'll take an easy swing at this one: because it represents the GOP representative in Congress actually (and finally) doing something they all campaigned on, and were elected on; repealing the ACA. We all knew what we were voting for when we voted for them, and it's nice to see that bear some fruit.

That's a non-answer. Try again. How is this a good thing for Americans?

Free market/competition will be some what restored.

How will that allow more Americans access to affordable health care?

Every single person in this country ALREADY has access.

Be it private or STATE.

Under the EMTALA ever single person in this country that goes to a hospital can get treatment REGARDLESS of the ability to pay.

Medicare exists created specifically for the poor.

Medicaid exists AGAIN created specifically for the poor.

Free Clinics exist EVERYWHERE.


So ask me another lie.

For everyone moaning about not being able to force Obamacare on the populace, take heart.

Warren and/or Sanders (and maybe Chelsea!) will be promoting socialized healthcare for 2020.

(so you have that to look forward to!)

a reply to: neo96

Neo, health insurance monopoly is the one format that isn't corrupt.
Look-at-Canada.

It's an essential monopoly run on 25% donations that are tax deductible. Win all around.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
So please explain why this will be a good thing for Americans.

I'll take an easy swing at this one: because it represents the GOP representative in Congress actually (and finally) doing something they all campaigned on, and were elected on; repealing the ACA. We all knew what we were voting for when we voted for them, and it's nice to see that bear some fruit.

That's a non-answer. Try again. How is this a good thing for Americans?

Well, for starters the penalties for having more than 50 workers and for employing workers for full time status rather than limiting them to 30 hours per week are gone, so employment will benefit. The medical device tax is gone, which is wonderful when you consider all it did was stymie medical R&D and crush innovation. No more tanning salon tax, no more investment disincentivising medicaid capital gains tax. Personal freedom is a thing again, as is some measure of personal responsibility and exposure to natural consequences of choices made (albeit not as much as I'd support... which would be a system by which you were allowed to soar or fail entirely on your own volition.) Premiums for the average American will absolutely go down. Tax dollars will be freed for use where they are not only needed but actually used for programs that the government is Constitutionally authorized to fund (like defense and trade).

I donno, man. Sounds like bull# to me.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: introvert
Overall, the direction this is going is one giant step backwards.

That's not a bad thing when you're standing on the edge of a cliff.

Cute.

Still a step backwards from the direction we should be going.

Your opinion only. Roughly 50% of the nation disagrees with you while roughly 50% agrees. Who will win? Tune it to find out!

Of course it's my opinion. Not more or less valid than yours, but minus the cuteness.

a reply to: neo96

So if that is the case, what is your problem with single payer?

originally posted by: Mordekaiser
a reply to: neo96

Neo, health insurance monopoly is the one format that isn't corrupt. Look-at-Canada.

It's an essential monopoly run on 25% donations that are tax deductible. Win all around.

The STATE meaning the US government has already cornered the market.

Over 120 million people enrolled.

There is no single private company that spends over $1 trillion per annum on it.

NOT A SINGLE ONE.

a reply to: dragonlover12

prior to obamacare i had what was referred to as a "cadillac plan", it was collectively bargained for

after obamacare the same plan was no longer available and what i got cost alot more with higher copays and higher deductibles


imo obamacare cant go away soon enough

a reply to: neo96

Yes, that's the issue. Cornering a market isn't a monopoly correct? An attempt. That's not a monopoly. You don't understand... It should nearly be ILLEGAL for it to not be the Government subsidy pool.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: FauxMulder

If that means no more mandate, then I'll be happy.

That's really all they had to change.

I'll die without insurance.

You'll forgive me if I don't celebrate, right?

originally posted by: xuenchen
How many votes needed in the Senate ?

51 or 60 ?

50 + Pence.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neo96

So if that is the case, what is your problem with single payer?

Same problem I have with those 'single' payers medicare and medicaid.

Hardly anyone paying for it.

Everyone using it.

New taxes got created like the medicare capital gians surtax.

And printing more money, and borrowing from countries like China

Doesn't even begin to cover the spendign short fall.

I don't know bout OTHERS.

But I want the CHOICE of going where i want to.

And a financial stable company.

And we sure know the hell the STATE can't balance their books.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
So please explain why this will be a good thing for Americans.

I'll take an easy swing at this one: because it represents the GOP representative in Congress actually (and finally) doing something they all campaigned on, and were elected on; repealing the ACA. We all knew what we were voting for when we voted for them, and it's nice to see that bear some fruit.

That's a non-answer. Try again. How is this a good thing for Americans?

Free market/competition will be some what restored.

How will that allow more Americans access to affordable health care?

Free markets promote competition....The way the ACA is now only allows a very limited number of companies to participate. That in turn raises the rates...that on top of people choosing to pay the fine instead of get costly insurance that doesn't offer coverage has made It where not many healthy people have joined. Therefore also raising rates as there are more sick people than healthy in the system..

Free markets wipe all that out. Competition lowers cost and therefore encourages more people to participate healthy or not. And we're only talking about pay markets....there are tons of ways for the poor or disenfranchised to get medical treatment already in the US.

originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: FauxMulder

If that means no more mandate, then I'll be happy.

That's really all they had to change.

I'll die without insurance.

You'll forgive me if I don't celebrate, right?

Yeah. It's okay. I'm sure there are plenty who might feel the impact. I certainly knew people who were impacted with the advent of Obamacare.

I still hope you recover soon.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
So please explain why this will be a good thing for Americans.

I'll take an easy swing at this one: because it represents the GOP representative in Congress actually (and finally) doing something they all campaigned on, and were elected on; repealing the ACA. We all knew what we were voting for when we voted for them, and it's nice to see that bear some fruit.

That's a non-answer. Try again. How is this a good thing for Americans?

Free market/competition will be some what restored.

How will that allow more Americans access to affordable health care?

Every single person in this country ALREADY has access.

Be it private or STATE.

Under the EMTALA ever single person in this country that goes to a hospital can get treatment REGARDLESS of the ability to pay.

Medicare exists created specifically for the poor.

Medicaid exists AGAIN created specifically for the poor.

Free Clinics exist EVERYWHERE.


So ask me another lie.

The biggest lie is the '24 million Americans will "lose" healthcare'. More than half of those (actually I think it may even be 16m) don't want it and are currently forced to pay the penalty.

originally posted by: dragonlover12
That was a rational plan .

There's part of the problem right there, there's no room for "rationality" in the entirely emotional argument in favor of socialized medicine. "You earn more than I do, so you should pay for my healthcare" isn't rational, it's ridiculous and counter to biology. When we are born, we are helpless and dependent upon others for our every need. As we grow through childhood, we learn to do more and more for ourselves and learn how to internally deal with our needs and problems. The goal has always been to be a self sufficient, individual, albeit one who find their niche in society if they so choose. Socialism, in all forms, essentially retards the growth of the individual, artificially blockading self growth. Socialism, including socialized medicine, is essentially turning to those who have already accepted a life of responsibility and self awareness and telling them "you are also going to be responsible for those folks over there who are hard work averse and/or reject the idea of self responsbility (except, of course where you are concerned).

It's a ridiculous sham of an ideology intended to perpetuate helplessness while penalizing maturity and self responsibility.