House passes GOP Health Bill.

originally posted by: Cauliflower
a reply to: shooterbrody

How much you paying for gasoline?

i paid 1.98/gal today

what does that have to do with govt healthcare?

originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: Mordekaiser

originally posted by: Cauliflower
a reply to: neo96
Except in countries like China and North Korea where health care costs a tenth of what it does in the US.

Or if we ran a basic health care system like North Korea operates the hair styling industry (women get a choice of 5 approved haircuts).

As soon as you start to underwrite detailed line items like the age men can have the government pay for their Viagra refills health care gets expensive. Generates all kinds of different special interests, profit motives and expensive lawsuits.

Single payer doesn't mean you don't get doctors. Limits on refills...it would be price, but the cheapest because everyone is helping pay for your Viagra, and Betty's car crash would be the cheapest because EVERYONE is helping pay for Betty, and etc. You will have a premium, and your Viagra will cost the same as everyone else, and if you buy too much Viagra, than you're simply the one responsible for raising the previously low Viagra premium.

No, EVERYONE won't pay...those of us with legitimate incomes will foot the bill for all the bangers shot gunfighting in the streets, dealing drugs on the corners, or generally causing mayhem and getting hurt, as well as the rest of US society that chooses not to work and sponge off of others...THEY won't pay a thing...ever...

You're also paying for other people's police and fire emergencies and other people's broken roads getting fixed. Get over it.

originally posted by: GuidedKill
Free markets promote competition....The way the ACA is now only allows a very limited number of companies to participate. That in turn raises the rates...that on top of people choosing to pay the fine instead of get costly insurance that doesn't offer coverage has made It where not many healthy people have joined. Therefore also raising rates as there are more sick people than healthy in the system..

Free markets wipe all that out. Competition lowers cost and therefore encourages more people to participate healthy or not. And we're only talking about pay markets....there are tons of ways for the poor or disenfranchised to get medical treatment already in the US.

Competition doesn't actually lower cost with health insurance though. It can promote better administrative efficiency, but health insurance relies on networks which require a critical mass of insured patients. Despite the myth, we already have insurance across state lines and no one uses it, because it's just not feasible to be more than a regional health care provider. For every region you expand to, you have a static increase in cost in order to build and manage a network, but with each additional provider you have a decreasing client pool.

Also there are not many ways for the poor to get medical treatment in the US. Emergency rooms are only good for one time issues, not for ongoing treatment. Among other things in the House plan, they're all but eliminating funding (reduced to 1% of current levels) for ongoing care. That means no doctor checkups, no outpatient treatment, no mental health care, no prescription drug coverage.

Does it cover the drugs for executions? I hope I don't have to donate again for that.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Versus 40% going to the government and folks that don't pull their weight this will be a godsend.

I'd gladly pay for those that are in need, versus those that are in it for greed.

I have no sympathy for those that live in the in the US and still can't live without assistance....land of opportunity and all...1st world problems.

Then it appears you have no clue of the reality in which we live.

Land of opportunity is a propaganda meme.

Don't be dumb enough to fall for it.

those opportunities worked out for me
i had to start at the bottom and bust my ass but it is paying off now

sorry to hear your experience is different

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Versus 40% going to the government and folks that don't pull their weight this will be a godsend.

I'd gladly pay for those that are in need, versus those that are in it for greed.

I have no sympathy for those that live in the in the US and still can't live without assistance....land of opportunity and all...1st world problems.

Then it appears you have no clue of the reality in which we live.

Land of opportunity is a propaganda meme.

Don't be dumb enough to fall for it.

Close the borders then.

I guarantee you the number of people that die in the US due to bad water or healthcare is a mere fraction of those in Africa or India.

The reason people anyone comes here is for opportunity and free whatever.

If you can't make it on your own in the US then you shouldn't be here. Why? Because you have every opportunity afforded, free healthcare, school, housing and cell phones.

Pardon me if I don't care that idiots that had kids when they couldn't afford them don't have health care...pardon me if I don't want to pay for their burden on our system...pardon me if I want to look out for my own family....pardon me if I could give a crap about your plight in the world when those I choose to help actually have a REAL reason to need help in another country.

You're in the US...then freaking work. People die...plain and simple. I'm not here to pay for your 90 year old mom because you just can't let go of her in hospice, I'm not here to pay for your kid's (education and healthcare) you had here after you came here illegally.

I have a family of 5 and I made a commitment to pay for them when I chose to get married and have kids.

Accountability is seriously lacking in the US right now and I hope it comes back at some point.

QFT
seens no one is able or willing to work for anything these days

originally posted by: spiritualzombie
Republicans only care about themselves, their own wallet, and their immediate circle. If that wasn't the case, they would speak and vote differently.

says those who put people in baskets

you people are a riot

originally posted by: shooterbrody
you do understand there is a cost involved when you see a doctor?

Honest question, why should there be a cost to the individual to see a doctor? They're already sick and missing days of work, which costs them hundreds of dollars. Why should they be paying several hundred to a doctor on top of that? Life should be about removing financial burdens, not creating them.

originally posted by: EchoesInTime
Thanks for posting this. I see several changes on there i don't agree with. Charging older people more? how does that make sense?

It's called pay to play. Basically this plan is aiming to cut health care costs, by making health insurance optional/low cost for the healthy, and moving all of the costs to the sick, or likely to be sick. Effectively it's like not having insurance at all, except you'll still have their profit margin worked into the bill.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: shooterbrody
you do understand there is a cost involved when you see a doctor?

Honest question, why should there be a cost to the individual to see a doctor? They're already sick and missing days of work, which costs them hundreds of dollars. Why should they be paying several hundred to a doctor on top of that? Life should be about removing financial burdens, not creating them.

honest question why pay for anything?

honest question why do you have so little respect for doctors that you expect them to work for free?

see in 1609 this same issue arose in jamestown
Countrymen, the long experience of our late miseries I hope is sufficient to persuade everyone to a present correction of himself, And think not that either my pains nor the adventurers' purses will ever maintain you in idleness and sloth...

...the greater part must be more industrious, or starve...

You must obey this now for a law, that he that will not work shall not eat (except by sickness he be disabled). For the labors of thirty or forty honest and industrious men shall not be consumed to maintain a hundred and fifty idle loiterers.[4]



a free ride didnt work then and it does not work today

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Pardon pun, go back a few posts and "enlighten" yourself to see I am no supporter of this bill, ocare or any legislation that just serves Kstreet.

I am very much in support of applying law and see where that lands us.

The only "new" legislation possibly needed is to allow reimportation of drugs to level playing field.

Fully applied (law) your routine healthcare including minor procedures and tests should be substantially less than cellphone bill or Internet or cable bills.

Your routine prescriptions should be less than a latte at coffee shop.

Your major or catastrophic coverage would be one half or less than a monthly auto payment.

Your policy would not be connected to your employer and pre-existing conditions issue would go away by default.

Under those conditions most Americans could well afford their care.

Under those conditions the taxpayers could well afford tab for the poor, indignant and unemploymed.

The only reason this is not done is outright greed by politicians and medical industry.

But you would hand it over to one of the parties that created the problem right?

a reply to: shooterbrody


Nobody expects doctors to work for free... A single payer system would pay doctors...

The program would be funded by the savings obtained from replacing today’s inefficient, profit-oriented, multiple insurance payers with a single streamlined, nonprofit, public payer, and by modest new taxes based on ability to pay. Premiums would disappear; 95 percent of all households would save money. Patients would no longer face financial barriers to care such as co-pays and deductibles, and would regain free choice of doctor and hospital. Doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.

www.pnhp.org...

a reply to: Aazadan

It covered transplants , open heart surgeries, pretty much anything major ----- I really don`t recall lifetime caps . They may have been there, but after 4 heart attacks and breaking all but one rib on one side (as well as other varied bangs and bumps that were treated) we were able to pay for whatever out of pocket there was. It was great insurance.

What we have now through his employer is legal under Ocare but worthless to us except in a catastrophic situation. Even then, paying the 20% not covered in a major situation would bankrupt us anyway. So again, insurance is useless.

originally posted by: marg6043
I never knew how bad insurance operates in this country, until my best friend had to get a procedure under Obama care and the insurance would not cover her cost, they said her procedure was not an emergency or necessary.

Employer provided insurance isn't much better. Do you know what my most vivid memory of growing up is? In 7th grade I got extremely sick and missed two quarters of school. My mom hated her job, they gave her no PTO so she couldn't take any time off to take care of me. All she wanted to do, was go work for another employer who could work with her on family issues. But she couldn't do it. She had medical bills, and now I had medical bills. She was forced to work a job she hated, just to have insurance coverage so I wouldn't die. Even after I recovered enough to go back to school it became a preexisting condition and she had to keep that job for another 10 years, because there would be no insurance coverage for me at all otherwise.

Because I got sick, I ended up destroying my moms career and retirement. That's what free market pre ACA coverage gets you.

originally posted by: neo96
I know what it is.

Your husband is paralyzed.

Means he qualifies for social security disability, and comes along with that is medicare.

Disability requires you to be destitute. No savings, no home, no income, no credit, and likely no car (you can technically own one, but you'll never be able to pay the maintenance on it). She would honestly be much better off financially with her husband dead, and collecting a life insurance policy than relying on disability.

a reply to: spiritualzombie

aazadan just asked why anyone should pay


what other industries do you propose the govt take over?

do you propose doctors still have to attend school for 6+ years?
who is going to pay for their school?
who would still want to be a dr?

a reply to: shooterbrody

If you left the price of gasoline up to the producers I suspect it would be much higher.
Makes sense that we should pay the oil companies for all the work they did in off shore oil exploration and fracking projects which brought the price of oil down via supply and demand.

Same thing with health care, it costs a lot of money to graduate from medical school but that doesn't mean a doctors salary can't be regulated by supply and demand.

In some single payer countries doctors negotiate directly with an intelligent billing department that sets limits on how much they can charge. I could see our health care system evolving in that direction if greedy over diagnosis becomes prevalent in our health care system.

originally posted by: neo96
Here's something else the purveyors of the single payer ignore.

With a single payer.

There is absolutely NO NEED for:

Medicare.
Medicaid.
Tricare.
Planned Parenthood.

Cause you won't sure get to keep those around in you want your Dystopia.

As they would ALL be superfluous.

Sounds like you're saying single payer would result in a smaller government. You may not realize this, but that's one of the arguments people use to support it already.

a reply to: Aazadan

Sure if you call over seaing over 320 million Americans healthcare 'small'.

I don't want even to begin think how many millions would be require to be hired or the trillions it would cost.

a reply to: Cauliflower

guess you dont understand oil prices,
oil is traded ,the market set the price,
you know OPEC and all,
thing is now opec cant set the price as supply has surpassed demand,
the price of oil drives the price of gas, cheaper oil = cheaper gas

that has nothing to do with health care

you want to go to school to become a dr and open a practice you can
then you get to set your own prices