Will California become to the U.S. what Taiwan is to China?

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: TheScale
the CalExit push failed recently and was called off due to the main guy involved in it being tied to russian groups who push for succession in western countries. no surprise really since he is living in russia aswell. how u can not be an active resident and push for something like that is beyond me. quite hilarious though.

Pushing it? Not bloody likely. More a swinish suspicion.

I haven't seen anything on any Russian groups being linked to it-which would support my premise that Brown wouldn't even attempt this on his own- so I'd appreciate a link for the information.

I lived in Ca. for about twenty years and I'm no fan of California- outside the USC Trojans and the Rose Bowl- and wouldn't move back without incentive, yet I wouldn't want California gone from the Union, per say.

i actually made a thread on this when it hit the news. heres a link. u can find the main guys statement about it somewhere aswell
calexit has russian ties

and heres the link to the thread
thread on calexit russian ties

originally posted by: nwtrucker
I wonder what the popular vote is for war in the ME? Not very high is it?

There are some interesting popular polls, opinion timelines and questions asked about this very topic, which is not the topic of this thread; but would be a good one to discuss.

How about all the crap this nation has undergone from our gov't without ANY mandate!

Not sure what you mean here...

Where is Brown's mandate for all he's done already?? The public puts up with it. He certainly acts 'empowered'. 'Mandated'. Seen any public backlash to speak of on his rhetoric and actions?

Primarily his mandate comes from the State Constitution and the Voters themselves; of course the Federal States Rights and all that...

Do I agree with "all he as done"? No.

P.S. Congress? Really? What would the popular vote be to enforce California to stay in the Union if Sacramento acts unilaterally?

Yes Congress, really. After Reconstruction, the law is very clear. Similar laws apply to the State Convention.

The majority outside Cali would likely say 'good riddance'.

I have no problem with that; but a popular vote means little when Amending the US Constitution.

mg

never going to happen,
California doesn`t have a military to protect itself from much larger countries,
an independent country, with no military, on the U.S. mainland,would be a prime target for invasion by every 2 bit tin pot dictator. the very existence of an independent California with no military would make it a major nation security threat to the U.S. and will never be allowed to happen.

even the liberals in California can`t be stupid enough to believe that they could survive for very long as an independent country without a military.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
This one is an itch I can't seem to scratch. It's more likely a plot for a war author....still worth speculating on.

Off the top, I do not believe Gov. Brown has a big enough 'pair' to tangle with the U.S. gov't by himself. If that is a correct assessment of the man, then it implies an outside California 'backing'. Perhaps even outside the U.S.. Perhaps a U.N.? Mexico? Chinese money? Even cartel backing? Soros? Then list any combination of the above.

California has plenty of oil resources, not to mention untapped off-shore reserves. They also have their largest industry which is agriculture so both food and energy isn't a problem. Water might be, but desalination plants could fix that one. Then there's the open border philosophy. Massive immigration from Asia, Mexico and South America would supply an almost unending source of cheap labor.

All that seems to be missing is the money/investment or commitment to invest in an independent California.

There's absolutely nothing that I can see short of armed intervention by the U.S.to stop it if that's the game plan. The U.N. would recognize the new state faster than any in the past. World opinion would be totally in California's side and dearly love the opportunity to stick it to the bad old U.S. of A..

The argument would be you've supported the Taiwan separation for decades, financially, militarily and have blocked Chinese efforts to reabsorb Taiwan at every turn. What goes around comes around.

The result would be an actual physical wedge in the North American zone featuring a truly world mix, people-wise. It would be the shining example of zero ethnicity for the rest of the world to build upon.

When one domino falls, the rest, or at least many, will follow suit. The beginning of the end of the USA? Not impossible will all that's been going on internally to set this scenario up.

If this isn't just another good idea for a novel, that is.

And a Democrat president would never hold office again

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: nwtrucker

Now all one needs in California to register to vote is a California ID card or California license. Illegals can get either, automatically.

California resident here. Before I indulge... Please read both these entries from Snopes. Deny ignorance is the motto.

While California did pass a law to increase voter turnout, the state has not made it legal for undocumented people to vote.

Zero evidence has been put forth to support the widely parroted claim that 3 million "illegal aliens" voted in the 2016 presidential election.

OK. Was my post incorrect? Can anyone get California ID cards which, IIRC, look exactly like the driver's licenses. Is it not also true that either one of those documents is all that's required to register to vote?

www.dmv.org...

There is no requirement for proof of citizenship, that I can see. As far as the three million number that is quoted, I believe that's a national estimate, not a California one. I wouldn't fully discount it, however, in regards to California. I'd bet no one knows the real number of illegal votes in Ca., especially Sacramento which has no problem ignoring legalities on immigration to begin with.

If that's true

a reply to: JDmOKI


Hmmm, good point. Add in the lost 55 electoral college votes and
maybe I should support California's departure.....

a reply to: Irishhaf

that's what i was gonna say, damn up the rivers and and with 40 million people the ground water will be gone inside a year, and then inside two maybe three they'll dry up and be beggin to to rejoin the union.

Taiwan is small and does not border China. Not a big concern to China. California is large and borders the US. If California secedes, China could set up military bases there under invitation to defend California from the US.

Wouldn't it be ironic if they became their own country and then had to start dealing with their own open border problem?

originally posted by: Tardacus
never going to happen,
California doesn`t have a military to protect itself from much larger countries,
an independent country, with no military, on the U.S. mainland,would be a prime target for invasion by every 2 bit tin pot dictator. the very existence of an independent California with no military would make it a major nation security threat to the U.S. and will never be allowed to happen.

even the liberals in California can`t be stupid enough to believe that they could survive for very long as an independent country without a military.

I did leave the military aspect out, didn't I.

Devil's advocate. Let's say a nation, like China or a Banking consortium decided to 'invest' in an independent California. Wouldn't they be inclined to 'protect' their investment? Reverse the U.S. tradition and invited China or Russia to place a strategic military base, or even bases in California? Then who dare touch them? Say even the U.N.?

No, Betsy Ross is gonna pissed if she has to resurrect to remove one star off the flag

a reply to: luciferslight


If anything. This would probably unite the two parties, albeit for different reasons, against the move.

originally posted by: allsee4eye
Taiwan is small and does not border China. Not a big concern to China. California is large and borders the US. If California secedes, China could set up military bases there under invitation to defend California from the US.

That is the huge difference in the analogy, isn't it. One is an island the other a major portion of the mainland and extremely important in both a military sense and the transportation of goods across the nation.Not to mention the agricultural supplies.

Cali would descend into anarchy, much like Chicago.... The only thing that is really needed from cali is Ports for shipping.

You want water....... pay for it......... The Colorado needn't go into cali, and Arizona could become an oasis.

a reply to: nwtrucker
Too many in California, including the state itself, are beholden to federal dollars.

Money talks, so California never walks. Yes, they have some awesome industries there, but a seeming inability to budget properly and be fiscally responsible--to California, if they had all of that control over the agricultural and fossil-fuel income, they would just end up spending more on unnecessary things and keep the state in perpetual economic unviability.

a reply to: missed_gear


What I was referring to was general mandate. The ACA was never 'mandated' as a campaign issue. Yes, voted on and passed but with no mandate from the people.


I understand the 'representative' aspect of our Constitution, but let's be real here, there has been no shortage of issues that never see the light of day with the voting public, deliberately.


If an issue in known to be 'unpopular' with the masses, one merely finds a different way of implementing an agenda.Albeit a bit slower. If I had to bet, I'd say popular vote/mandate isn't an argument that would sway TPTB from implementing any course of action.

originally posted by: TheScale

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: TheScale
the CalExit push failed recently and was called off due to the main guy involved in it being tied to russian groups who push for succession in western countries. no surprise really since he is living in russia aswell. how u can not be an active resident and push for something like that is beyond me. quite hilarious though.

Pushing it? Not bloody likely. More a swinish suspicion.

I haven't seen anything on any Russian groups being linked to it-which would support my premise that Brown wouldn't even attempt this on his own- so I'd appreciate a link for the information.

I lived in Ca. for about twenty years and I'm no fan of California- outside the USC Trojans and the Rose Bowl- and wouldn't move back without incentive, yet I wouldn't want California gone from the Union, per say.

i actually made a thread on this when it hit the news. heres a link. u can find the main guys statement about it somewhere aswell
calexit has russian ties

and heres the link to the thread
thread on calexit russian ties

Cool. Thanks for the link....

Cali would quickly become mexico again. The population and illegals would take over. 11million illegals by some accounts, plus the 50% mexi population presently there. The Gringo's would 'white flight' like never before. Along with them, their wealth. They might have to abandon their property as a consequence, but they would still fare better than staying and being consumed by hordes of poor.

This is a lame fairytale rewrite of history.

Taiwan was the rightful ruling govt of China at the end of WWII that fled there from Mao and the communist hoards that were taking over the mainland. They were after Taiwan when they backed N Korea to invade the South but Truman sent the naval fleet to protect Taiwan so Taiwan owes it's existence to US military power.

Comparing California to a nation fleeing barbarism, death and enslavement is the furthest from the truth. They are commie sympathizer liberals having a triggered tantrum trying to make their whole state a safe space.