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Incitement, and other nonsense.

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posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: zosimov




What incites a mob to violence (in particular the most gruesome/horrific lynching type)?


Already preconceived bias's.

Just looking for any excuse.

Which doesn't take much to begin with.


Human studies show we can be incited to flash violence even peaceable people can. Look up Crowd psychology. Many studies have been done.


Our sensitivity to crowds operates in a remarkably swift and automatic way




In fact, recent studies suggest that our sensitivity to crowds is built into our perceptual
system and operates in a remarkably swift and automatic way. In a 2012 paper in the
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, A.C. Gallup, then at Princeton
University, and colleagues looked at the crowds that gather in shopping centers and
train stations.
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In one study, a few ringers simply joined the crowd and stared up at a spot in the sky
for 60 seconds. Then the researchers recorded and analyzed the movements of the
people around them. The scientists found that within seconds hundreds of people
coordinated their attention in a highly systematic way. People consistently stopped to
look toward exactly the same spot as the ringers.
The number of ringers ranged from one to 15. People turn out to be very sensitive to
how many other people are looking at something, as well as to where they look.
Individuals were much more likely to follow the gaze of several people than just a few,
so there was a cascade of looking as more people joined in.


www.wsj.com...
whitneylab.berkeley.edu...




posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: SeaWorthy




Human studies show we can be incited to flash violence even peaceable people can. Look up Crowd psychology. Many studies have been done.


Well the mob ain't ever been known for it's intellect.

I am well aware of it, but I think it's just an excuse to do as they please.

Again.

Already there.

Just looking for any excuse.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: surfer_soul

Yes, I apologize for the trite and oversimplified example. I think the "terrorist" issue has been hotly discussed and the book/imams/religion have commonly been implicated as a cause. I just wanted to throw out a current and relevent example to get the conversation going.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: neo96




Rational thought tells a person it's against the law to hurt someone else.


I suppose that's why we need laws, for the rationally minded. Personally I wouldn't hurt someone else because I feel empathy for them.

I'm not sure what you mean by blaming inanimate objects has to do with this thread. But if your referring to gun control then yeah "guns don't kill people rappers do"



You can't make someone do something they already don't want to do.


Oh? But you so can...Often without them even realizing it...



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: surfer_soul




I suppose that's why we need laws, for the rationally minded.


Not necessarily.

The only thing that's really needed is treating OTHERS how we would like to be treated.

No law needed.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: neo96

If that were the case. There would be no laws.

Unfortunately people suck.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I want to agree with you and in a perfect world you would be correct. But this all assumes that each human is capable of thinking for themselves and has at least a certain baseline of intelligence.

But we all know and witness everyday in the headlines that many humans do not have critical thinking ability. The term "Sheeple" is a cute catch phrase that many use these days and there is some reality to it. I know that many will think there is some arrogance to this position, perhaps there is a little, but I think of it more as an observation. There is a Guassian curve to human intelligence and a big chunk of the world population is on the 'left' of the median.

There are many who can be incited to do bad things, up to and including killing themselves and others.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: surfer_soul




The Pen is mightier than the Sword remember.


The pen is not mightier than the sword. Try bringing a pen to a sword fight.

I love language. But I will not pretend words are agents of action capable of manipulating human matter, because others are more likely to attack the words and language and the speaker than to grapple with their own understanding of the words and language.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Mikehawk
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I understand the point you are trying to make, but you are just wrong.

You need to sit down and have a conversation with Romeo Dallaire.

I've seen him speak first hand about his experiences with incitement of hatred due to propaganda.

Have you forgotten Rwanda?

There are so many more...


And totally IGNORE that thing called free will.

Do you know how many times I said something and people like didn't do anything at all ?



Many children are forced to be soldiers, there's no free will there my friend.

We all have free will but humanity as a whole is easily fooled into doing things by charismatic people, remember Hitler? Remember all the do-gooders who signed up after 911 only to find out later on that their own government were the culprits. People are gullible and blindly follow along. It's a fact. Monkey see monkey do.

Maybe OP is strong willed and not easily "peer pressured" but many of us, especially young adults and children need to fit in whether it's joining that vicious street gang, militant group or your local genocide. I don't completely understand the reasoning behind it, but it exists.

As mentioned in my original post I see the point the OP is trying to make, but his logic on the subject is absent minded in my opinion. The OP appears to have a superiority complex (in regards to this topic) and seems to makes light of complicated issues as if it's all black and white.

There's always a grey area.

Long story short, I very strongly disagree with you and the OP.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Mikehawk




I understand the point you are trying to make, but you are just wrong.

You need to sit down and have a conversation with Romeo Dallaire.

I've seen him speak first hand about his experiences with incitement of hatred due to propaganda.

Have you forgotten Rwanda?

There are so many more...



Are you saying pro-Tutsi propaganda would have led to the opposite effect?



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: zosimov




Yes, I apologize for the trite and oversimplified example. I think the "terrorist" issue has been hotly discussed and the book/imams/religion have commonly been implicated as a cause. I just wanted to throw out a current and relevent example to get the conversation going.


No need to apologize, it's a good example, the point I'm trying to make is that terrorism isn't simply about religion and much more about certain people identifying with 'oppressed' groups of one kind or other. That's what gets the pawns caught up in it anyway. Real terrorism is about control and power as per usual, and is committed by all kinds of groups at present and throughout history. Propaganda or hate speech whatever your preferred terminology is the means by which terrorism is disseminated.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




The pen is not mightier than the sword. Try bringing a pen to a sword fight. I love language. But I will not pretend words are agents of action capable of manipulating human matter, because others are more likely to attack the words and language and the speaker than to grapple with their own understanding of the words and language.


You know it is a metaphor and you know there is truth in that saying surely?
What is propaganda if not words and images? Why comfort someone with kind words(it works both ways) why bother saying anything at all? You know about NLP right? Your clearly intelligent enough to grasp that words can and do influence people, so I fail to fully see the point you are trying to make here.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: surfer_soul




You know it is a metaphor and you know there is truth in that saying surely?
What is propaganda if not words and images? Why comfort someone with kind words(it works both ways) why bother saying anything at all? You know about NLP right? Your clearly intelligent enough to grasp that words can and do influence people, so I fail to fully see the point you are trying to make here.


Yes I know it is a metaphor. That's the point: it's not literally applicable.

Then why are you not in agreement with me? Because of your education, your upbringing, and the limits of your language and understanding, not because of my words.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: Mikehawk




As mentioned in my original post I see the point the OP is trying to make, but his logic on the subject is absent minded in my opinion. The OP appears to have a superiority complex (in regards to this topic) and seems to makes light of complicated issues as if it's all black and white.


You appear to have an inferiority complex. You're much stronger than any word that is thrown your way. Why would you pretend otherwise?



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: Mikehawk




Long story short, I very strongly disagree with you and the OP.


Careful now.

Wouldn't want to 'incite' us since it has all that power you think it has.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Mikehawk




I understand the point you are trying to make, but you are just wrong.

You need to sit down and have a conversation with Romeo Dallaire.

I've seen him speak first hand about his experiences with incitement of hatred due to propaganda.

Have you forgotten Rwanda?

There are so many more...



Are you saying pro-Tutsi propaganda would have led to the opposite effect?



I am not a psychic nor do I have the ability to change the past so I cannot give you a definitive answer to your loaded question.

Are you saying so???????

Edit to stay on topic:

The Pygmy Batwa were also exterminated by 30%.

I do think that if the propaganda wasn't so strong many of these people would be alive today. I strongly believe that their hatred was incited by the propaganda.
edit on 2-5-2017 by Mikehawk because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: Mikehawk

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Mikehawk




I understand the point you are trying to make, but you are just wrong.

You need to sit down and have a conversation with Romeo Dallaire.

I've seen him speak first hand about his experiences with incitement of hatred due to propaganda.

Have you forgotten Rwanda?

There are so many more...



Are you saying pro-Tutsi propaganda would have led to the opposite effect?



I am not a psychic nor do I have the ability to change the past so I cannot give you a definitive answer to your loaded question.

Are you saying so???????

Edit to stay on topic:

The Pygmy Batwa were also exterminated by 30%.

I do think that if the propaganda wasn't so strong many of these people would be alive today.


If propaganda of that sort was presented to you, would you engage in genocide?



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn



If words can persuade people to hate. Smiles, laughter, and kindness can persuade them to love.


Not true-public gestures of affection are abhorred in certain nations. The Indian government want to charge actor Richard Gere for publicly kissing a bollywood actress. Some cultures believe that a smile without cause is offensive, laughing at a westerner being executed in a certain nation is okay, and sometimes kindness, empathy and mercy is considered a weakness.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




Then why are you not in agreement with me? Because of your education, your upbringing, and the limits of your language and understanding, not because of my words.


Are you suggesting I'm not in agreement with you because of the limits of my language, understanding and education?
I certainly hope not. I'm not in agreement because your argument that words can't influence people is just wrong.
Wrong to the point of foolishness or that you have your own agenda of some sort going on.

Sure I think all the political correctness has gone into overdrive and there are to many "triggered" cry baby's out there, but as someone who was non physically bullied at work many years ago, I know first hand the power of words and the influence they can have on someone. You might take the position I was weak or allowed the bullies to get at me. Sticks and stones might brake my bones but words can never hurt me, yeah I remember singing it at primary school, but what I didn't realize was that actually they can. Given enough repetition and in the right circumstances they can destroy peoples lives. Of course they can be used to create the opposite effect too. Its frankly immature to pretend otherwise.

If words had no influence there would be no debate, no advertising, no rhetoric, no media, no real or fake news, no slogans and catchphrases, the list goes on...



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 12:41 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Mikehawk

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Mikehawk




I understand the point you are trying to make, but you are just wrong.

You need to sit down and have a conversation with Romeo Dallaire.

I've seen him speak first hand about his experiences with incitement of hatred due to propaganda.

Have you forgotten Rwanda?

There are so many more...



Are you saying pro-Tutsi propaganda would have led to the opposite effect?



I am not a psychic nor do I have the ability to change the past so I cannot give you a definitive answer to your loaded question.

Are you saying so???????

Edit to stay on topic:

The Pygmy Batwa were also exterminated by 30%.

I do think that if the propaganda wasn't so strong many of these people would be alive today.


If propaganda of that sort was presented to you, would you engage in genocide?


You ask that as if I'm Rwandan (I'm not).

I'm noticing a pattern with you. You ignore most the post that you quote then ask a simple question without addressing the meat of the post. That's two loaded questions in a row from you in this thread alone.

I'm not a Hutu from the 1990s so my opinion on whether or not I would participate is meaningless as I have nothing to relate to.

As a Westerner who considers myself to be compassionate towards my fellow humans, I will only hurt another human as a last resort in self defense.

I will no longer respond to you until you stop playing games.



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