Hiram Abiff is Jesus Christ is Lucifer

originally posted by: PRSpinster
a reply to: PuRe EnErGy
Bro, if you aren't on the square, then you don't understand. There is a reason why you study the degrees and you do so in order. To take certain instruction properly you begin and you end in order. Here, you have clearly picked up pieces of their truth and used it in conjunction with your beliefs, not how it was written. That is incomplete thought and faulty work. I'm going to flag the thread bc I want to come back to it but no star for you...not that it matters. Js.

I don't think those "on the square" have a bloody clue.

Study the degrees? ... I guess because I haven't been studying the degrees (even though I have, regardless) and studied much more than that, I guess I "don't understand" ... that's good... because I'd rather overstand.

There's a reason I have over 5 million stars....

I've read that the Bible has two creation stories with two different Gods, Elohim and YHWH, which seems strange to me. What are your thoughts on this?

InGen 1, God creates plants, then animals, and then simultaneously creates man and woman. In Gen 2, God creates a human, plants, then animals, and later he divides the human into female and male. Additionally, the two stories employ different names for the deity. The first account uses the Hebrew word Elohim, meaning “God,” whereas the second uses the tetragrammaton, YHWH (often represented by “Lord”).

Source

-MM

a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

There's no surer way to get people to intentionally muddle your OP than by mentioning something to do with those pesky masons.

The very introduction to your OP is that you have come across something you know to be true based on your own personal journey. People may disagree, of course, but can not deny another's truth in a meaningful way. However, your OP seems to be more of an open ended question, a thinking out loud, than it does a recitation of a creed.

To me, your OP is interesting and thought provoking. Thank you.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

According to the Book of Deuteronomy in the Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls, El and YHWH are two separate beings, which is in accord to the original Canaanite Religion.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9

"When Elyon (Most High) allotted peoples for inheritance,...

When He divided up the Sons of Adam,...

He fixed the boundaries for peoples,...

According to the number of the Bene Elohim (Sons of El).

But YHWH’s portion is His people;

Jacob (Israel), His own inheritance."

Here, we see that Elyon designated YHWH to be the God of the Israelites.

There is an interesting correlation here, let's consider the following:
• The Canaanite Religion articulates 70 Sons of El.
• The Bible describes 70 Nations.
• According to Old Testament Scriptures, Elyon gave one of the 70 Nations (Israel) to one of his 70 Sons (YHWH).



There are several other instances of polytheism throughout the Old Testament Scriptures, and these instances mirror what is seen in the Canaanite Religion.

With such cases arguing that The Most High El and LORD GOD YHWH are two different beings, many have found correspondence to systems describing an ABSOLUTE Creator God and a Fashioner Demiurge deity.

originally posted by: PuRe EnErGy

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

Actually,..... this only proves that the Judeo-Christian foundations were built upon the Canaanite Religion. El has 70 Sons, and according to Isaiah 14, Heylel would be one of them.

Now, if we read verses 13 & 14 of Isaiah chapter 14, we discover that the chapter is referencing Baal Hadad, which is evident by the chapter's description of Heylel usurping El, his desire to be like Elyon, and the inclusion of "Mount Zaphon", i.e.; Baal-Zephon. All of this perfectly mirrors the Baal Cycle.

I'm sorry but you're missing EVERYTHING before the OT....

It's like having a conversation with someone who hasn't read a book, .... about the book.

Hello again PuRe EnErGy.

I'm not here to derail your thread, I was merely asking why you would declare Hiram Abiff to be synonymous with Jesus and Lucifer, if one; you do not how he relates to your own op, and two; you didn't even include any information about Hiram Abiff in the op whatsoever.

I was actually following along and enjoying your op, but your last paragraph about Hiram Abiff comes out of nowhere without any explanation, and kind of ruins the flow of the rest of the op. This thread would be a lot more coherent if that last paragraph were either snipped-out, or supported with information and an opinion about that information.



What, specifically, are you alluding to as occurring before the Old Testament? Ras Shamra / Ugarit? Egypt? Mesopotamia? The Vedas? Or is our main focus on primordial archetypal Gnostic cosmogony?

Apart from the inclusion of Hiram Abiff, the cosmogony stitched together in the op appears to detail primordial creation from the ideation of the Divine Mind and emanation from the One Absolute. This macrocosmic drama also mirrors the mechanics of man's own mental and immaterial processes.

originally posted by: PuRe EnErGy

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: PuRe EnErGy

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

"So how does this have to do with Hiram Abiff? ... I don't quite know"

If you don't know how your thread relates to Hiram Abiff, why would you present your thread with a title directly equating Hiram Abiff with Jesus and Lucifer?

Cherry picking a simple statement does no good, I said RIGHT after how I thought it related... there are certain similarities between the two and belief by Masons themselves that lead to that conclusion.

I said I don't quite know, BECAUSE I'M NOT A FREEMASON.

if there is anything specific you want to know, just ask. We can rustle up Ksig to provide answers. (we sent him to all the best schools)

Who's we.... and how is this funny or comical? .. it's not.

Provide answers? .. I'd rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.

Really sorry to offend. I just thought if you wanted to know something specific about masonry, you might want to ask a mason. There are a few of us here. Hence the use of "we". If you are happy learning about freemasonry from imagination, that's cool too. "WE" are happy to help if we can.

Have a nice day.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: PuRe EnErGy

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: PuRe EnErGy

originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

"So how does this have to do with Hiram Abiff? ... I don't quite know"

If you don't know how your thread relates to Hiram Abiff, why would you present your thread with a title directly equating Hiram Abiff with Jesus and Lucifer?

Cherry picking a simple statement does no good, I said RIGHT after how I thought it related... there are certain similarities between the two and belief by Masons themselves that lead to that conclusion.

I said I don't quite know, BECAUSE I'M NOT A FREEMASON.

if there is anything specific you want to know, just ask. We can rustle up Ksig to provide answers. (we sent him to all the best schools)

Who's we.... and how is this funny or comical? .. it's not.

Provide answers? .. I'd rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.

Really sorry to offend. I just thought if you wanted to know something specific about masonry, you might want to ask a mason. There are a few of us here. Hence the use of "we". If you are happy learning about freemasonry from imagination, that's cool too. "WE" are happy to help if we can.

Have a nice day.

The specifics I want to know, I don't believe are something that can be openly talked about.
Yes, but "WE" is inclusive and I'm sure only one of you can respond at a time. Wouldn't it make more sense to say "I" ... as a representative and not "WE" as if you spoke collectively. Semantics, bah..

It wasn't that I was necessarily offended, I just take this seriously and get tired of people making silly jokes or being dismissive.

a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

I dont believe Hiram is Lucifer, well, im pretty convinced he isnt. You have to consider though, most of the American freemasons believes in the stories they are given.

originally posted by: Ekwensu
a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

I dont believe Hiram is Lucifer, well, im pretty convinced he isnt. You have to consider though, most of the American freemasons believes in the stories they are given.

Did you take a poll, or do you have "divine knowledge" of this? I am curious as to how you "know" this.

Lucifer is reflected light.
Christ is not a reflection.

Hiram runs a house of mirrors.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: dantanna

You're a follower of some "true" church, I assume?
You know they kept their sermons in Latin up until very late in the middle ages to keep the true story as far away from the peasents as possible and until this day, you wouldn't understand a single word if two people actually studying and devoting their lifes to theology talk.

And they were internationalist? Don't you maybe mean occupying forces? And in that line of thought wouldn't jesus in modern days be a Jihadi?

Middle Ages?!

Catholic masses were always said in Latin until the 1950's or early '60's...

a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

Interesting OP - thanks.

There are some, who through research/data - > knowledge - > gnosis, who would say that YHWH and El (ohim) (eyon) are 2 distinctly different beings.

Additionally, that Jesus of Nazareth was a good & spiritual man, but he was not the Christ.

And Hiram Abiff is simply a character used allegorically by many for good reason.

As far as Lucifer? Hell, (no pun intended) that requires a whole separate line of discussion.

On a final note - it is my knowledge and belief that the study & understanding of quantum physics will do more to illuminate our understanding of these "spiritual" topics then all the priests, rabbi's, worshipful masters and esoteric teachers have ever done.

a reply to: network dude

I most likely know a lot more about the esoteric and mysticism in freemasonry than you do, you dont have to be a freemason to understand it or rather the American lodges of it. Its a theological and systematical modern version of spiritual guidance for men.

Do i have divine knowledge, no, i just study weird stuff..

a reply to: Ekwensu

Perhaps you will return under a new name, so I'll reply to your arrogant/ignorant post.

I am a mason, and I know what I believe. I know other masons, and we do talk about the ritual and it's meaning quite often. In all that discussion, I have heard all about "allegory" and it's meaning, but not a blind belief in the stories told. So while I wouldn't make some claim to know what everyone in your circle of friends thinks, I will correct you on your attempt to do the same.

Masonic stories are much like the symbols. They are to teach a lesson. They are not to be taken as a historical fact.

You are correct in that you need not be a mason to learn about esoteric studies. So without you knowing what I know, I'm sure you know more about everything than I do.

a reply to: network dude

We both know the reason im kicked out, and it has nothing to do with;" Arrogant and Ignorant posts "
This might be your place, but im not moving out..

You talk about the rituals and its meaning? I can quote the Ephesians 6:10-18 "

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

The Allegory and metaphor is a way to see if the blind man can interpret the symbolism out of context from the "stories", and last time i checked, youre still a 32nd and not a 33rd, its a huge leap of faith in between.

The reason why you have a symbol in a story is simple,but do i need to know your rituals? No. The underlining stories are still the same despite paradigms, its a way to find an enlightened spirit or in other terms, "Dantes seven circles of hell".

Hiram Abiff is a story full of allegories, but its still a story. As an American mason you rejected the Bible.

a reply to: KingSombra

As an American mason you rejected the Bible.

As a person with reason, I accept the Bible as a collection of stories meant to teach moral lessons. Much like masonry.
And If I ever get to the uber super 33rd, I'll be sure to pat Lucifer on the ass once for you. Though it still just amazes me that you could know more about that subject than I. You must be a real class act.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: KingSombra

As an American mason you rejected the Bible.

As a person with reason, I accept the Bible as a collection of stories meant to teach moral lessons. Much like masonry.
And If I ever get to the uber super 33rd, I'll be sure to pat Lucifer on the ass once for you. Though it still just amazes me that you could know more about that subject than I. You must be a real class act.

What do you make of this documentary?



are you familiar with Gnostic theology? the Demiurge? Yaltabaoth? Pistis Sophia?

a reply to: PuRe EnErGy

Not on this post you haven't.