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Another Day Without Immigrants

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posted on May, 2 2017 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

so i guess if there were no illegal immigrants at your mall (you must have personally asked everyone of them about their legal status) there would be nothing but well behaved legal children at your mall?




posted on May, 2 2017 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

The Truth About Undocumented Immigrants and Taxes

The Social Security system has grown increasingly reliant on this stream of revenue, particularly as aging Baby Boomers start to retire. Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration, estimates that about 1.8 million immigrants were working with fake or stolen Social Security cards in 2010, and he expects that number to reach 3.4 million by 2040. He calculates that undocumented immigrants paid $13 billion into the retirement trust fund that year, and only got about $1 billion in benefits. “We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010,” Gross concluded in a 2013 review of the impact of undocumented immigrants on Social Security.


The Economic Blame Game: Immigration and Unemployment

Contrary to the claims of critics, the immigration bill now winding its way through the Senate would not add to the ranks of the unemployed. In fact, both the legalization and “future flow” provisions of the bill would empower immigrant workers to spend more, invest more, and pay more in taxes—all of which would create new jobs. Put differently, employment is not a “zero sum” game in which workers compete for some fixed number of jobs. All workers are also consumers, taxpayers, and—in many cases—entrepreneurs who engage in job-creating economic activity every day.

Nevertheless, one of the most persistent myths about the economics of immigration is that every immigrant added to the U.S. labor force amounts to a job lost by a native-born worker, or that every job loss for a native-born worker is evidence that there is need for one less immigrant worker. However, this is not how labor-force dynamics work in the real world. The notion that unemployed natives could simply be “swapped” for employed immigrants is not economically valid. In reality, native workers and immigrant workers are not easily interchangeable. Even if unemployed native workers were willing to travel across the country or take jobs for which they are overqualified, that is hardly a long-term strategy for economic recovery.




I am tax payer and have never gotten any darn dime from the government, so I have a voice I am latina and a minority, I don't care about sentiments and hurt feelings.Because I been there and done that.

I'm a taxpayer too. You're hardly special. I'm not especially worried about your feelings either


Those intelligent enough to see the crap behind the pushing for illegals "rights"


Illegal immigrants have rights - human rights - like it or not:

"Migration concerns us all and no State can escape from its obligations under international human rights law to protect and ensure respect for the human rights of migrants, irrespective of their migration status." -- François Crépeau, U.N. Special Rapporteur on the human rights of migrants

All immigrants, irrespective of their legal status, have human rights. While states have the right to regulate the entry and stay of non-nationals in their territory, they can only do so within the limits of their human rights obligations. The U.S. government must ensure that its laws, policies and practices do not place immigrants at an increased risk of human rights abuses. Amnesty International's new report, In Hostile Terrain: Human Rights Violations in Immigration Enforcement in the US Southwest (English) or (Spanish) shows that the United States is failing in its obligations under international human rights law to ensure these rights.


edit on 5/2/2017 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: geezlouise


Dang mama, you got mad tho!!!

No - not at all. And not at all at you :-)

You got a mouth on you - I was hoping you'd stand up for yourself. It's always OK to disagree - and that doesn't mean people are angry

People hear things the way they want to hear them though. Right?

On topic - I'm not much of a nationalist Louise. People can argue about what kind of citizen that makes me. And they do. It's not that I don't believe in borders or legality, but I'm more concerned with human rights abuses than I am with people's lawns

If you know what I mean



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis


On topic - I'm not much of a nationalist Louise. People can argue about what kind of citizen that makes me. And they do. It's not that I don't believe in borders or legality, but I'm more concerned with human rights abuses than I am with people's lawns


First:

Second:


And that's why we're friends.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



And it's a good thing. I could use a friend in this thread - people got a real bug up their hineys about this one

:-)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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Yes, They Do Pay Taxes (from the link that Spira provided, from The Atlantic:


“We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010,” Gross concluded in a 2013 review of the impact of undocumented immigrants on Social Security.


Yeah. Those illegal immigrants paid TWELVE BILLION DOLLARS in taxes that went toward Social Security that they themselves will likely never see.

So, please stop with the disinformation about them. Unless you have worked with them and gotten to know them, you don't know what you are talking about.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It doesn't even add up to the what the tax payer spend in the illegal immigrations in the nation a year.


The cost of harboring illegal immigrants in the United States is a staggering $113 billion a year -- an average of $1,117 for every “native-headed” household in America -- according to a study conducted by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).


www.foxnews.com...

No comparison.

And that was back in 2010.

The illegal that stole my identity, didn't pay my social security or my taxes, it took loans and never pay back, left me with the mess of the debt so the government came after me.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

I have respect for you as a Latina from our 51st "state", marg, but it seems you do not really have a good grasp of how the immigrants from south of our border contribute to the economy in a "reality" sort of thing.

And please...FOX news? Really?
Find corroborating facts and figures from other sources and then we can talk. You know how Social Security works? The people working TODAY and paying into the Social Security fund are the ones whose money is sent out to the people RECEIVING benefits.

It isn't a personal "savings account", although many think that. But no. If I ever receive Social Security based on the decades I worked and the "credits" I received which entitle me to SS payments someday (ha!) it will be the work force AT THAT TIME whose SS withholdings pay it.

All the money I've paid in SS taxes has already gone out to those retired/disabled/juvenile recipients.

It will be the taxes withheld from the people working and paying into the fund AT THE TIME when it comes time for me to receive the benefits.

P.S. Sorry your identity got stolen. How do you know it was an undocumented immigrant? It might just have been a lazy citizen thief. We have lots of those.

edit on 5/2/2017 by BuzzyWigs because: typos



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:29 PM
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How much immigration reform will cost the tax payer and how it compares to the lifetime of benefits that many of the illegals will receive at the expenses of tax payer once they become citizens


Heritage: Over a lifetime, the former unlawful immigrants together would receive $9.4 trillion in government benefits and services and pay $3.1 trillion in taxes. They would generate a lifetime fiscal deficit (total benefits minus total taxes) of $6.3 trillion. (All figures are in constant 2010 dollars.) This should be considered a minimum estimate


Importing poverty doesn't make the nation any better.

www.factcheck.org...

This why congress stop working on immigration reform and while they talk about for political game they will think two times before sticking the cost of reform on the tax payers back for a lifetime



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: marg6043




The illegal that stole my identity, didn't pay my social security or my taxes, it took loans and never pay back, left me with the mess of the debt so the government came after me.

You know - that sucks Marg. That is criminal. Citizens do the same thing all the time. Is there no distinction in your mind between someone that would do something like that to you and someone that just came here out of desperation and a need to find a way to a better life? Is it all the same thing to you regardless?

In any case, if we're going to start rounding up people and splitting up their families then deporting them back home, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You can not erase statistics, importing poverty in the US doesn't help the tax payer at all.

While a portion of illegal immigrants made do good, the rest will end up draining the economy when they go on to benefit from social programs and live on the tax payers.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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Don't let the door hit ya .



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Only you know best, right?

How foolish of us to disagree.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:39 PM
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Importing Poverty: Immigration and Poverty in the United States: A Book of Charts

The reality and the truth behind illegal immigration in America.

Circa 2006


The current influx of poorly educated immigrants is the result of two factors: first, a legal immigration system that favors kinship ties over skills and education; and second, a permissive attitude toward illegal immigration that has led to lax border enforcement and non-enforcement of the laws that prohibit the employment of illegal immigrants. In recent years, these factors have produced an inflow of some ten and a half million immigrants who lack a high school education. In terms of increased poverty and expanded government expenditure, this importation of poorly educated immigrants has had roughly the same effect as the addition of ten and a half million native-born high school drop-outs.

As a result of this dramatic inflow of low-skill immigrants,

•One-third of all immigrants live in families in which the head of the household lacks a high school education; and


•First-generation immigrants and their families, who are one-sixth of the U.S. population, comprise one-fourth of all poor persons in the U.S.


immigration also plays a large role in child poverty:

•Some 38 percent of immigrant children live in families headed by persons who lack a high school education;


•Minor children of first-generation immigrants comprise 26 percent of poor children in the U.S.; and


•One out of six poor children in the U.S. is the offspring of first-generation immigrant parents who lack a high school diploma.


Hispanic immigrants (both legal and illegal) comprise half of all first-generation immigrants and their families. Poverty is especially prevalent among this group. Hispanic immigrants have particularly low levels of education; more than half live in families headed by persons who lack a high school diploma. family formation is also weak among Hispanic immigrants; fully 42 percent of the children of Hispanic immigrants are born out of wedlock. Hispanic immigrants thus make up a disproportionate share of the nation's poor:

•First-generation Hispanic immigrants and their families now comprise 9 percent of the U.S. population but 17 percent of all poor persons in the U.S.; and


•Children in Hispanic immigrant families now comprise 11.7 percent of all children in the U.S. but 22 percent of all poor children in the U.S.


Massive low-skill immigration works to counteract government anti-poverty efforts. While government works to reduce the number of poor persons, low-skill immigration pushes the poverty numbers up. In addition, low-skill immigration siphons off government anti-poverty funding and makes government efforts to shrink poverty less effective.

Low-skill immigrants pay little in taxes and receive high levels of government benefits and services. The National Academy of Sciences has estimated that each immigrant without a high school degree will cost U.S. taxpayers, on average, $89,000 over the course of his or her lifetime.[3] This is a net cost above the value of any taxes the immigrant will pay and does not include the cost of educating the immigrant's children, which U.S. taxpayers would also heavily subsidize.

In this way, the roughly six million legal immigrants without a high school diploma will impose a net cost of around a half-trillion dollars on U.S. taxpayers over their lifetimes. The roughly five million illegal immigrants without a high school diploma will cost taxpayers somewhat less because illegal immigrants are eligible for fewer government benefits. However, if these illegal immigrants were granted amnesty and citizenship, as proposed by the Bush Administration and legislated in a recent Senate-passed immigration bill (S. 2611), they could cost taxpayers an additional half-trillion dollars. In total, all immigrants without a high school education could impose a net cost on U.S. taxpayers of around one trillion dollars or more. If the cost of educating the immigrants' children is included, that figure could reach two trillion dollars.[4]


This is just a pick of what things came to be after the report done in 2006

The government knew it was a problem but did nothing to fix the problem.

Now the figures has double , triple and quadruple on the problems that illegal immigration has brought to the nation.

And anybody that thinks this is nothing is just playing irresponsible to the tax payer in the nation.

www.heritage.org...



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

You do realize that border-jumping has trickled down to a paltry few, right? You realize lots of them have self-deported? You realize that your data is more than a decade old?

The height of the "undocumented" population was about 2000-2007. Since then, many of them have left.

But it seems apparent that you aren't having any of that. You are too privileged to be impressed by the abject poverty and hopelessness of people living in conditions that would horrify you. You came from a US territory. You married a citizen of the US.

Yet you have no compassion for people who happen to speak your native language who have fled their homelands because otherwise they would perish of starvation and their children along with them.

Because money.

And that? That's a real travesty.

But okay then. That's your position. Duly noted. Sad, but noted.

And FOX News is a crap source. Please think about that.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's always amazing to me when somebody on the internet waxes prophetic about the background of somebody they've never met.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

But if people came in legally, they wouldn't be in a position where others can more readily abuse them?

Because I think it's quite possible that illegal immigrants are subjected to a more abusive environment due to being illegal. And I am a fan of changing that as well because I don't like it when people are abused.

I'm not the one that put so much emphasis on the type of jobs illegal immigrants will do. I don't like naming names buttttt it was your friend BUZZY who said Americans apparently don't want to do the jobs illegal immigrants just loooove to do. And I wonder why that is... hm. Could it have anything to do with money????? I wonder!!!

Furthermore, wtf about the fake security numbers and illegal immigrants who goes through all the trouble to pay taxes with a fake identity, like they are psyching even themselves out like "hey I pay taxes too and abide by the law all and clearly I make all this effort to be a good fake American citizen except that one time when I crossed boundaries and snuck right in without consent like a big fat rapist?"... like seriously WTF? I feel like these people are smart enough to become legit so why not just go through the process of being legit? Seriously I am baffled.
edit on 2-5-2017 by geezlouise because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I like you enough so I will not argue with you on fox or any other topic that have to do with statistics.

We can no ignore the facts, sadly that is what many are trying to do.

Just because an illegal comes to the US and works, is millions more that are looking to benefits from the generosity of our ignored laws

Its a burden on the nation, the tax payer and those that came into this nation legal.

And that is a fact that can not be debated, this topic come and go, so far in the years that we have debating this topic in ATS nobody can come out with the benefits in statistics that illegals have on the economy.

For the contrary as the years goes by, the drain in the economy keeps growing.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Yes the border jumping has gone down, but we all ready have millions of illegal immigrants in the nation that are benefiting from the tax payer.


In September 2015, the Center for Immigration Studies published a landmark study of immigration and welfare use, showing that 51 percent of immigrant-headed households used at least one federal welfare program — cash, food, housing, or medical care — compared to 30 percent of native households. Following similar methodology, this new study examines the dollar cost of that welfare use.

•The average household headed by an immigrant (legal or illegal) costs taxpayers $6,234 in federal welfare benefits, which is 41 percent higher than the $4,431 received by the average native household.


•The average immigrant household consumes 33 percent more cash welfare, 57 percent more food assistance, and 44 percent more Medicaid dollars than the average native household. Housing costs are about the same for both groups.


•At $8,251, households headed by immigrants from Central America and Mexico have the highest welfare costs of any sending region — 86 percent higher than the costs of native households.


•Illegal immigrant households cost an average of $5,692 (driven largely by the presence of U.S.-born children), while legal immigrant households cost $6,378.


•The greater consumption of welfare dollars by immigrants can be explained in large part by their lower level of education and larger number of children compared to natives. Over 24 percent of immigrant households are headed by a high school dropout, compared to just 8 percent of native households. In addition, 13 percent of immigrant households have three or more children, vs. just 6 percent of native households.


Even legal immigration cost the tax payer dearly in the name of government services and benefits.

Illegals also get to enjoy the benefits from the government

If America was a nation that had its own native born living and earning a decent living and enjoying the American dream they will not have a problem allowing that dream to be shared.

But when in America the native born have no dream to share the immigration just becomes an unnecessary burden.

cis.org...



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Is funny I just ignore what in reality can not be discussed or debated in a public board behind a keyboard.

I just let them have their fun.




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