Ok, I am setting this down for general discussion / debate.
Here is a debate that I had last night with my deacon during a Bible study.
Christ died for our sins. He drank from the cup of sins to take the sins of mankind unto himself and thus leave us cleansed.
My question was, why did he have to do this? The response was that it was needed due to Adam and Eve eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and thus "soiling" all of mankind.
I have a problem with this.
Think about it this way. Adam and Eve sinned by eating the fruit. Does this really mean that all of their sons and daughters are thus born in sin?
Children, are considered a gift from God. A man and a woman provide the flesh where God provided the soul. Since the soul is made by God, How can it not be perfect? How can God create something that needs to be improved? By saying that all of the sons of Adam and Eve are born in sin, then are we not also saying that God is creating imperfect souls?
I beleive, that a child is born pure. When they are born. They are perfect in that they are ready to go to Heaven. It is what we their parents and society that brings the sins onto the child as they grow.
The sins that a child accumulates through their life is what Jesus died for. Not the sins of Adam and Eve nor of Cain and Abel. He died for the sins that we do while alive.
Any thoughts on this?

In my opinion, he didn't have to. Anymore than shedding blood for anything washes away sin....it makes absolutely no sense what so ever! For starters the a god would known exactly what the outcome was going to be from the moment of creation. A god does not need anything killed to worship it. And as to all the free will.....this makes no sense either. How can it be free will!? You have free will but if you don't do the gods way....your in deep trouble? That's not free will! That's not free will, that's "do it my way or else".

the bible says without the shedding of blood their cannot be remission for sin. and a child left to its own devices does not come out without sin (do you have children?) lol! they crazy on their own. i believe the creation is subject to frustration by satan when he fell from heaven he came here! all the details i do not know, but i always assume that the adam and eve story is possibly deaper than we would think, i dont have the details...but in making the decision to be decieved, well somehow a curse was added to mankind. god was the old testament fulfillment of the spotless lamb being sacrificed for our sin, he was the scapegoat also, he took the sin apon himself outside of the camp. he became the high priest to enter into the holy of holys and he tore the curtain of the temple in two...look into these things they are great mysterys of which we only know pieces..all i know is that in the end we need to be covered by the blood of christ because in the beginning we were subjected to a frustrated form of a perfect creation.

By saying that all of the sons of Adam and Eve are born in sin, then are we not also saying that God is creating imperfect souls?

i believe the creation is subject to frustration by satan when he fell from heaven he came here!

LOL ninki beat me to it. Anything that has imperfections has to be the creation of Satan. Its THAT objective!

Psychologically speaking, if i sinned and made terrible mistakes and someone else took the blame for me, would'nt that encourage me to do more evil since i dont have to pay for it?
Human mind is twisted. WE all think we're so noble. But we only fear the authority because they can harm us. If we found out that we can do whatever we want but someone will take the blame for us we wont ever stop.
Good Post LadyV!

I beleive, that a child is born pure. When they are born. They are perfect in that they are ready to go to Heaven. It is what we their parents and society that brings the sins onto the child as they grow.
The sins that a child accumulates through their life is what Jesus died for. Not the sins of Adam and Eve nor of Cain and Abel. He died for the sins that we do while alive.
Any thoughts on this?

Jesus is infallible . He have not to die for his sins .
Death is a rule . The pure child you talked about also dies , so no one has to die for his sins .

all i know is that in the end we need to be covered by the blood of christ because in the beginning we were subjected to a frustrated form of a perfect creation.

- Why Jesus himself was chosen to die for our sins? Why not anybody else ?
- Why a god have to die to rinse his people's sins , can't he rinse them without dying ?
- Jesus washed the sins of the people of his time , who will wash our sins on these times ?
- Why he washed them at 33AD , not on another time ?
- The Jews and Romans killed Jesus for many reasons , they didn't kill him to rinse your sins.
- What about being thankfull for those who killed Jesus to wash our sins ?


- Why there is hell and paradise if Jesus have to die to remove our sins ?