Stop sending your kids to college and stop going to college, Why the Economy Sucks Exhibit B

Employers used to train the workers before. The worker started out at a reduced wage and worked their way up to the top pay within four or five years. But the workers got paid for learning. I trained quite a few workers in my life, They went on to other jobs with a good reference.

Our society has turned sideways now, I do not know how that could possibly happen, most of the things kids go college for could be learned on the job. I think that the Education field is poisoning our youngs minds, not everyone needs to go to college. You just need to learn proper work ethics when you are done, they do not teach that in school evidently.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

There is no government.. it's corporament

This might help

If we all poor-middle class pitch in.
I doubt it though

a reply to: schuyler

You have no idea what you are taking about and I'm not going to waste my time educating you.

Typical, making a claim you can't produce any evidence for.

You can't educate me on this topic more than likely because you can't find the numbers which means you're using anecdotal evidence to support your position.

Not sure you have a law degree.

a reply to: toysforadults

My son starts college in the fall for Nuclear/ Plasma and Radiological Engineering. I'm pretty sure they don't have on the job training for that.


..............jeez...at least I hope not. Images of Homer Simpson come to mind.

a reply to: DAVID64

What is it that he's going to learn in school that can't be taught on the job?

The best advice I could give someone deciding what do in life is to do what you like. Don't listen to your parents.

Learn a skill that uses both your mind and hands. Working as a skillfull worker leads to many opportunities.

I started out going to college and got a associates degree in applied electronics. That was in the mid 80's.

Fixed arcade games during college.

Moved on to working on elevators.

After 30 years of doing this, I can retire with a nice pension early in my life.

And you know what, I enjoyed every minute of it.

a reply to: Groot

There is a massive difference between the world you have experience in the last 30 years and the world these people are facing for the next 30.

It's almost unrecognizable.

It would also explain the massive disconnect in political ideology and understanding what the current struggles are for those now entering the workforce.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: DAVID64

What is it that he's going to learn in school that can't be taught on the job?

Nuclear/ Plasma and Radiological Engineering.

Seriously?

Nuclear, plasma, and radiological engineering is a branch of engineering that is concerned with the development and use of nuclear energy and radiation sources for a wide variety of applications in energy production, in materials processing and science, and for biomedical and industrial uses. Areas of interest include the continued safe and reliable application of fission reactors as central electric power plant thermal sources; plasma processing applications and the longer term development of fusion reactors for electric power generation; and the use of radiation sources in such areas as materials, biological systems, medical treatment, radiation instrumentation, environmental systems, and activation analysis.

The first two years of the curriculum provide a strong foundation in basic sciences (physics, mathematics, and chemistry), engineering sciences (analytical mechanics and thermodynamics), an introduction to digital computer use, and introduction to nuclear energy systems. Most technical concentration takes place in the third and fourth years of the curriculum according to the educational and career interest of the students. The curriculum provides three professional concentration areas: power, safety and the environment; plasma and fusion science and engineering; and radiological, medical, and instrumentation applications. Each concentration area allows flexibility in developing advanced technical expertise but also requires depth of understanding in the area. The third path meets pre-med requirements and facilitates the minor in bioengineering. To complete this concentration area, students should take certain chemistry and biology courses in the first two years of the curriculum.

a reply to: DAVID64

Ya seriously. They are going to sit in a class and be spoken at for over an hour then given a book and told to go home and read.

Then after many instances of be spoken at and told to read a book they may lab.

Sooo.. how is that better then actually working alongside someone and going home and reading out a book at home?

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Groot

There is a massive difference between the world you have experience in the last 30 years and the world these people are facing for the next 30.

It's almost unrecognizable.

It would also explain the massive disconnect in political ideology and understanding what the current struggles are for those now entering the workforce.

Not if your in the Elevator/Escalator unions
Those guys are like the mafia. They ain't going anywhere. At least here in Canada.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

That may be true.

I'm sure that's not even on the radar for most kids.

Most kids probably don't even know thats a possibility.

a reply to: toysforadults

Would you want a surgeon operating on you that was doing on the job training? That's about the degree of complexity we're talking here. If he were going to be a welder or something like that, I'd say fine, but a Nuclear Engineer?
It's juuust a bit more than "getting talked at and then reading a book".

a reply to: DAVID64

What precisely is it that you can't learn on the job and from a book that you are going to learn in school?

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: MALBOSIA

That may be true.

I'm sure that's not even on the radar for most kids.

Most kids probably don't even know thats a possibility.

I believe it is an apprenticed trade. You go to college but with a certain amount of the on the job hours in order to be ticketed.

I don't think Groot was making a good argument towards college or if that was his intent. You can get your electrical ticket for working with elevators through the trades process. I don't think you need a degree but maybe he can confirm.

Trades are still a good path to decent life but it's not a "cool" choice to make in most young people's eyes.

I'm in the trades. I don't think that was better or worse than collage. After high school it took 12 years of hard work and dedication before I was trusted professional in my trade and had options open up to me that would give me a upper middle class lifestyle. Different roads to the same end.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Groot

There is a massive difference between the world you have experience in the last 30 years and the world these people are facing for the next 30.

It's almost unrecognizable.

It would also explain the massive disconnect in political ideology and understanding what the current struggles are for those now entering the workforce.

Yes there is sort of, but we are training a new generation. Our apprenticeship program, along with other trades, are designed to integrate and teach those coming into the work force.

www.iuec.org...

www.ibew.org...


Just to name a few. They are looking for workers now, since the gap between old guys like me getting ready to leave the trade and new guys coming in is huge because of the lack of work between those years.

a reply to: toysforadults

As I said.. it's the #1 largest barrier in America to obtaining a middle class lifestyle.

Doing what? You seem to be aware of the fact that we are living in the era of deindustrialization. The ship sailed on offshoring a while ago. Technological unemployment is no longer a problem for the blue collar alone, more and more white collar jobs are at risk. Hell, they've got AIs that can read CT scans with substantially more accuracy than a human radiologist. There are even AIs that produce content like news articles.

Market forces work great. Capitalism is working its magic.

The best bet is to get into a field that's least at risk of being replaced by a robot or a computer. On average, a bachelor's degree will net its holder about $300k more ($20k more a year, adjust for inflation and deduct the cost of education) on average compared to a worker without one. There are already companies that provide tutition assistance/reimbursement and less qualified graduates will only lead to more visa workers. If the isolationists shutdown visa programs, companies will find some other way. They'll reduce the need or they'll train but they'll defray the costs by paying everyone less or charging customers more. What they won't do is take less profit. Will they?

Academia is rife with liberals of all persuasions because smarter, more educated people tend to be socially and/or economically more liberal — and I would include libertarians in this case — regardless of party affiliations. The annoying bits like CRT (which gave us "microaggressions, "triggered," etc) would disappear overnight if we could greatly improve the employment situation.

What we should be working toward imo is something that will result in people working less hours on average. We can and should all be benefitting from technological progress.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I'm in IT which is dangerously close to automation.

Technological unemployment is no longer a problem for the blue collar alone, more and more white collar jobs are at risk.

On average, a bachelor's degree will net its holder about $300k more ($20k more a year, adjust for inflation and deduct the cost of education)

Are you uhhh... hmmm.. so which is it?

a reply to: toysforadults

Even with a college degree you still require on the job training. Arguing with you is pointless, so don't get a degree, I don't care. It just makes mine more valuable.

Yes, many many fields could be just fine with on the job training. Pay to play bitches, live with it. I have a technical degree. Could I do my job with on the job training, definitely. It is fairly simple, but our company won't even interview anyone without a degree. My income has tripled since graduating ten years ago, so take your silly ideas and run with them all you want.

Did you even apply for scholarships or grants? Thirty grand for a degree really isn't very high. It's the price of a new car. You need to get a reality check and walk slowly into the world of adulthood. There are roads laid out, paths in place. If you have the chance to go to college GO. Stop making excuses, you are no smarter or dumber than anyone else, but you are an idiot if you pass an opportunity.

a reply to: toysforadults

I'm not against an education, but college is a huge rip off. Academic achievement should be determined by tests, not necessarily by attending class and listening to lectures. There are many people who are capable of teaching themselves from the appropriate study materials. I do believe some fields such as engineering, architecture, medical practices, etc should require both testing and apprenticeship, but college is really overrated.

In the old days, people used to go into monasteries with their study materials to learn. Personally, I think its a good idea, but it doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

The point is, the power of academic accreditation needs to be taken away from the colleges/universities, and should rest upon testing and apprenticeship. There should be no established standard for testing either. Competition between testing firms should keep prices very low. The testing firms with the best quality standards would naturally become the most sought after.

We should seek the natural balance in all areas of life and society. Regulation destroys balance.