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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I have to say that when folks have no one to attack except a bunch of men who want to be good fathers and husbands, the left has really run out of targets. Oh, wait a minute. The primary target of the left is the family and what better way to destroy the family than to destroy the role of the father.
"While Promise Keepers is not a political force in its own right in 1995, McCartney leads by example. He has repeatedly attacked reproductive rights, and he campaigned for the 1992 anti-gay Amendment 2 ballot initiative as a member of the board of Colorado for Family Values, the sponsor of the initiative. His rally addresses have been uncompromising. "Take the nation for Jesus Christ," he directed in 1992. The following year he said, "What you are about to hear is God's word to the men of this nation. We are going to war as of tonight. We have divine power; that is our weapon. We will not compromise. Wherever truth is at risk, in the schools or legislature, we are going to contend for it. We will win."
No less militant is Promise Keepers co-founder Dave Wardell, who told The Denver Post, "We want our nation to return to God. We're drawing a line in the sand here. . . . There has already been controversy about abortion and homosexuality. I hope there won't be any physical confrontations. . . . "
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson: Bill for Religious Freedom, 1779. Papers 2:545
Originally posted by llpoolej
Damn Bush for allowing faith based charities to help with feeding and helping the hungry and needy!!!
my atheist, feminist husband, who is a far finer human being that someone who has to have a deity beating the concept of "be nice" into their heads. And someone who sees the woman as an equal is a far better spouse than the "I am the head of the household" dude.
Originally posted by llpoolej
I still don't know where PK teaches that women must give up everything and listen to their husband's whims and demands.
I can hear you saying, `I want to be a spiritually pure man. Where do I start?' The first thing you do is sit down with your wife and say something like this: Honey, I've made a terrible mistake. I've given you my role. I gave up leading this family, and I forced you to take my place. Now I must reclaim that role.
Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I'm not suggesting that you ask for your role back, I'm urging you to take it back. If you simply ask for it, your wife is likely to say, Look, for the last ten years, I've had to raise these kids, look after the house, and pay the bills. I've had to get a job and still keep up my duties at home. I've had to do my job and yours. You think I'm just going to turn everything back over to you?
Your wife's concerns may be justified. Unfortunately, however, there can be no compromise here. If you're going to lead, you must lead. Be sensitive, Listen. Treat the lady gently and lovingly. But lead!
Originally posted by llpoolej
As parents, we made a choice to bring them into this world and now, must do our duty TO SOCIETY and the children themselves to parent them. To teach them. To love them.
Originally posted by Johannmon
The real premise being debated is: (drum roll please) Government should be neutral on religious values and not give either support or impedence to them.
The real question is: Can government fuction outside of religious belief or is it intrinsically and inseparably tied to the philosophy of its populace and leaders?
Originally posted by lmgnyc
Religion transcends the legal system--perhaps if fear of eternal damnation wasn't hanging over people's heads, men and women wouldn't get married...
Consider this--how did the concept of marriage get into the bible? Was this one of the concepts handed down by God or was this just a very successful attempt by early politicians to co-opt legitimate spirituality to codify a societal infrastructure that supported political and economic goals? Even Hammurabi claimed that the Gods had bestowed on him the power to write and enforce the laws he was making up. Simply saying "Hey, I'm Joe, and here are some things that we should do to make life easier.." wouldn't really inspire the Babylonians to listen to him--he needed a higher power to give his Code some street cred.
Wouldn't it make sense that everything that was a threat to this infrastructure would be declared "evil"--adultery, bastard children, homosexuality....Claiming that these laws were handed down by God would give them much more weight than if they were just a worldy, common law--especially as something like sex is difficult to control.
And this formula is one that has stood the test of time--Government continues to support Judeo-Christian ideals. Some may say it is because "the people" are inherently religious, but I believe that it is still a means of control. A patriarchal society still takes a lot of economic burden off of the state, which would explain the close ties between Promise Keepers and government.
This doesn't make the premise of traditional family values wrong--but it does make declaring other non-traditional lifestyles evil and an abomination (which the founders of Promise Keepers are fond of doing) terribly wrong.
Originally posted by dawnstar
Two thousand years of testing, let's take a glimpse of the result:
Here an interesting thought, we hear so much talk about how the labor unions killed this country:
"During the Progressive era between 1890 and 1920, a new social contract emerged to match the new industrial conditions of the era. Key to that social contract were the labor laws that regulated industrial working conditions. Passed at first at the state level, and very often initially for women only, eventually these laws were adopted at the federal level and extended to include men as well as women. "
gee, what do you know and here we are being told that the purpose of unions was to drive that wages of the workers and lead us more strongly to the great socialist system. Gee, wonder just what these conditions were, that prompted society to move with such momentum for which must have been just a small portion of the population, since well, we had all those loving men out there, sacrificing themselves, giving up their own wants and desires, and providing for them while they stayed home and took care of their primary function.....tending the kids.....
One of the contributing factors that led to the movement according to some was the Triangle Fire, that occured in NY City in 1911...
Originally posted by Byrd
I don't think you'd ever see Wiccans being
encouraged by the government and I'm not
sure you'd see Muslims, either.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Wiccans and Muslims were in our book. They were
considered 'real' (or whatever) and the military is
required to accomodate them.
Anyways ... I have never heard of Promise Keepers
before. I'm reading the info on them on this thread with great interest .... please continue ....
(BTW - Hi Rant. Haven't seen ya' for a while.
WHERE have you been???)