The thing that REALLY worries me about North Korea

originally posted by: fusiondoe
What if North Korea REALLY do have nukes capable of reaching USA. What if they have not been bluffing?

Surely there is nobody as crazy in this world as Kim portrays himself which is starting to make me wonder if perhaps Kim isn't mentaly insane.... surely nobody is that stupid to keep goading and goading a world superpower/nuclear power if you don't have nothing to back it up.

Maybe I am wrong but it does worry me that America MAY get a bit of a shock .. maybe I worry too much I don't know..

I think the vast majority of North Korea's threats are simply to play to their own people just to keep them thinking North Korea is some kind of military superpower that the United States and South Korea are afraid of.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

Yup. How propaganda works in NK is the same for every other nations.

Now somehow, Kim has become enemy number one, even though NK has not been involved in a single war since its last. Or dropped bombs on civilian hospitals, or destabilized any regions, or overthrown any governments or sold weapons to terrorists , or caught spying on other countries, or invaded or supplied rebels with arms etc...

what i dont get is what people would want NK to do in order to be "good" in the eyes of other countries? Not have a defense system? Not test weapons like every other nations do? Should they not have means to defend their country, why are they being prohibited to defend or build their arsenal of defensive weapons?

Last i checked NK has not killed millions of innocent bystanders in manufactured wars with 0 repercussions.
Why are there no sanctions every time the US comes out and say yes we accidently bombed hospitals with children and elderly... or we missed our target, but hey... why no one decried for sanctions?

NK is not part of any nuke treaties, thus its not breaking any nato laws or iaea regulations... like Iran who gets away with their nuke program and mysteriously no one is talking about that anymore.

This only shows the subvert, unconscious level of control they have over the easily persuaded.
If next month the focus shifts to Austria for some reason,, im betting everyone will stop talking about NK (what has not set foot or used weapons on a foreign state in nearly a century)

A simple experiment is to search the WW3 forums 6 months back, and see which countries were coming up as the number one threat to ww3... it wasnt NK. And thats the power of persuasion and repetition.

originally posted by: jtma508
a reply to: rickymouse

What??? You think the people of NK actually CHOOSE a leader? Wow. Just wow.

Yeah, I realize I had a brain fart there with that statement now. But if Kim is gone, maybe they will be able to choose a new leader that will be good for their people. Kim is not going to leave on his own, he will sacrifice all of his people to stop that from happening.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: 0zzymand0s
Now somehow, Kim has become enemy number one, even though NK has not been involved in a single war since its last. Or dropped bombs on civilian hospitals, or destabilized any regions, or overthrown any governments or sold weapons to terrorists , or caught spying on other countries, or invaded or supplied rebels with arms etc...

what i dont get is what people would want NK to do in order to be "good" in the eyes of other countries?

Gee, let's see...
They could stop arresting entire families and sending them to what are essentially death camps for the rest of their lives for the minor crime of one person and then brutally torturing them in said death camps until they're literally worked or starved to death.
There's plenty of North Korean escapees who talk about these places.
They could also stop brutally executing people in public as examples to others for the smallest of crimes, like not saying Kim Jong Un's name with enough respect.
There's plenty of North Korean escapees who also talk about the public executions.
But, you know, aside from all that... North Korea is threatening to use nuclear weapons against the United States while actually trying to build them.

originally posted by: rickymouse
But if Kim is gone, maybe they will be able to choose a new leader that will be good for their people.

Absolutely not. The moment he's gone, the various top officials will fight among themselves until one of them takes control by whatever force necessary.

a reply to: odzeandennz

Well, yeah. I mean the old guard has invested their entire lives in the notion that their strength and "military superiority' makes them inherently "right."

Which would be true enough if we didn't live in a world where just about anyone can have a conversation with just about anyone else, whenever they feel like it. That alone makes it so much easier to see how full of snip our so-called 'leaders' are.

It must be rough. I'm sure it was easier "back in the day," when just having a big sword --and not being embarrassed that it was literally a phallic representation of a half-remembered former glory-- was almost always 'good enough' (to ensure you got your way).

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: rickymouse
But if Kim is gone, maybe they will be able to choose a new leader that will be good for their people.

Absolutely not. The moment he's gone, the various top officials will fight among themselves until one of them takes control by whatever force necessary.

That kind of sucks too, and because he chose these people for their ruthlessness, it will not change much.

The USA putting someone in charge never works, we wind up taking them out of power in twenty years, we choose badly. I think China should handle this. Russia doesn't do much better than the USA does, they stuck Kim Il-sung in charge of Korea back after WW11. Russia should have known he was going to have some crazy offspring. Korea was doing pretty good back in the eighties, now the people are suffering and brainwashed, primed for a war where they will most definitely lose.

originally posted by: fusiondoe
What if North Korea REALLY do have nukes capable of reaching USA. What if they have not been bluffing?

Surely there is nobody as crazy in this world as Kim portrays himself which is starting to make me wonder if perhaps Kim isn't mentaly insane.... surely nobody is that stupid to keep goading and goading a world superpower/nuclear power if you don't have nothing to back it up.

Maybe I am wrong but it does worry me that America MAY get a bit of a shock .. maybe I worry too much I don't know..

We are all but certain that NK possesses nuclear weapons, most likely in the form of bombs. Some may be in the form of missile-ready warheads mounted on short to medium range missiles; no one knows for sure about these warheads, whether they exist or not, and if they exist, how many exist.

We know that NK is working to miniaturize a nuclear warhead to mount on an ICBM. NK has ICBM capablity, as demonstrated by its successful launch of a satellite previously.

What else they may have, already, we do not know.

For example, do they have nuclear-tipped torpedoes? Are the few, old, submarines they have capable of launching nuclear torpedoes?

We are pretty certain that NK has a smallish (maybe a few dozen?) stockpile of nuclear weapons, we just don't know what, exactly is in that stockpile.


As to the string of missile "failures", it might very well be that NK is destroying those missiles deliberately, not just to provoke the world superpowers, but to disguise a slow and methodical approach to technical development, while under intense international scrutiny.

A missile need not be a model of high-tech wizardry, complicated and electronically sophisticated.

In fact, the closer you adhere to the K.I.S.S. model (Keep It Simple, Stupid!), the more likely you are to achieve success.

Remember, the old V2's worked, more or less, and that was seventy years ago.

If you destroy each missile after it proves the latest design up grade, you get the data you need to make the next improvement, eliminate all evidence that your are making improvements, and lull your opponents into believing that your efforts continue to be fruitless.

You might even get them to believe that they are responsible for your failures.

What better way to instill deadly complacency in a more powerful enemy?

We've got nukes at osan airbase.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar

originally posted by: fusiondoe
What if North Korea REALLY do have nukes capable of reaching USA. What if they have not been bluffing?

Surely there is nobody as crazy in this world as Kim portrays himself which is starting to make me wonder if perhaps Kim isn't mentaly insane.... surely nobody is that stupid to keep goading and goading a world superpower/nuclear power if you don't have nothing to back it up.

Maybe I am wrong but it does worry me that America MAY get a bit of a shock .. maybe I worry too much I don't know..

We are all but certain that NK possesses nuclear weapons, most likely in the form of bombs. Some may be in the form of missile-ready warheads mounted on short to medium range missiles; no one knows for sure about these warheads, whether they exist or not, and if they exist, how many exist.

We know that NK is working to miniaturize a nuclear warhead to mount on an ICBM. NK has ICBM capablity, as demonstrated by its successful launch of a satellite previously.

What else they may have, already, we do not know.

For example, do they have nuclear-tipped torpedoes? Are the few, old, submarines they have capable of launching nuclear torpedoes?

We are pretty certain that NK has a smallish (maybe a few dozen?) stockpile of nuclear weapons, we just don't know what, exactly is in that stockpile.


As to the string of missile "failures", it might very well be that NK is destroying those missiles deliberately, not just to provoke the world superpowers, but to disguise a slow and methodical approach to technical development, while under intense international scrutiny.

A missile need not be a model of high-tech wizardry, complicated and electronically sophisticated.

In fact, the closer you adhere to the K.I.S.S. model (Keep It Simple, Stupid!), the more likely you are to achieve success.

Remember, the old V2's worked, more or less, and that was seventy years ago.

If you destroy each missile after it proves the latest design up grade, you get the data you need to make the next improvement, eliminate all evidence that your are making improvements, and lull your opponents into believing that your efforts continue to be fruitless.

You might even get them to believe that they are responsible for your failures.

What better way to instill deadly complacency in a more powerful enemy?

Great answer! Star for you, thanks

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: conspiracytheoristIAM

Is this "UN video thing" an inside joke I don't get?

I was combining your comment with iTruthSeeker's to make a humorous reply and then iTruthSeeker edited out his comment making things confusing.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Speak for yourself.

North Korea is well down on my list of day to day, even month to month, worries.

Right now, I just want the frickin' plumbing to come together like it's supposed to... Bloody frappin' Murphy's Law...

((mumble))

((mumble))

North Korea is going to bluster and threaten, then shut up, claim victory in their ever-lasting war with whomever. Every President since Truman has had a run in or two, twelve with North Korea. Ain't nothin' to lose any great amount of sleep over.

originally posted by: fusiondoe
What if North Korea REALLY do have nukes capable of reaching USA. What if they have not been bluffing?

Maybe I am wrong but it does worry me that America MAY get a bit of a shock .. maybe I worry too much I don't know..

I think THIS may be the week that we either give a "shock" to North Korea, or get shocked by North Korea.
www.foxnews.com...

a reply to: seagull

North Korea is going to bluster and threaten, then shut up, claim victory in their ever-lasting war with whomever. Every President since Truman has had a run in or two, twelve with North Korea. Ain't nothin' to lose any great amount of sleep over.

True.

This time, however, we appear to have a president that is stoking the fire. That's what's concerning: he's provoking the situation.

:/

Let's hope cooler heads prevail.

www.cnn.com...

North Korea Nuclear Timeline Fast Facts
CNN Library Updated 7:17 AM ET, Thu April 6, 2017

(CNN) — Here is a look at North Korea's nuclear capabilities and the history of its weapons program.

1985
North Korea signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

1993
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) demands that inspectors be given access to two nuclear waste storage sites. In response, North Korea threatens to quit the NPT but eventually opts to continue participating in the treaty.

1994
North Korea and the United States sign an agreement. Among other stipulations, North Korea pledges to freeze and eventually dismantle its old, graphite-moderated nuclear reactors in exchange for international aid to build two new light-water nuclear reactors.

2002
January 29 - US President George W. Bush labels North Korea, Iran and Iraq an "axis of evil" in his State of the Union address. "By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger," he says.

October - The Bush Administration reveals that North Korea has admitted operating a secret nuclear weapons program in violation of the 1994 agreement.

2003
January 10 - North Korea withdraws from the NPT.

February - The United States confirms North Korea has reactivated a five-megawatt nuclear reactor at its Yongbyon facility, capable of producing plutonium for weapons.

April - Declares it has nuclear weapons.

2005
North Korea tentatively agrees to give up its entire nuclear program, including weapons. In exchange, the United States, China, Japan, Russia and South Korea say they will provide energy assistance to North Korea, as well as promote economic cooperation.

2006
July - After North Korea test fires long range missiles, the UN Security Council passes a resolution demanding that North Korea suspend the program.

October - North Korea claims to have successfully tested its first nuclear weapon. The test prompts the UN Security Council to impose a broad array of sanctions.

2007
February 13 - North Korea agrees to close its main nuclear reactor in exchange for an aid package worth $400 million.

September 30 - At six-party talks in Beijing, North Korea signs an agreement stating it will begin disabling its nuclear weapons facilities.

December 31 - North Korea misses the deadline to disable its weapons facilities by the end of the year.

2008
June 27 - North Korea destroys a water cooling tower at the Yongbyon nuclear facility.

October 11 - North Korea is removed from the US list of states that sponsor terrorism.

December - Six-party talks are held in Beijing. The talks break down over North Korea's refusal to allow international inspectors unfettered access to suspected nuclear sites.

2009
May 25 - North Korea announces it has conducted its second nuclear test.

June 12 - The UN Security Council condemns the nuclear test and imposes new sanctions.

2010
November 20 - A Stanford University professor publishes a report that North Korea has a new nuclear enrichment facility.

2011
October 24-25 - US officials meet with a North Korean delegation in Geneva, Switzerland, in an effort to restart the six-party nuclear arms talks that broke down in 2008.

2012
February 29 - The State Department announces that North Korea has agreed to a moratorium on long-range missile launches and nuclear activity at the nation's major nuclear facility in exchange for food aid.

May 24 - A spokesman for South Korea's Defense Ministry says that based on analysis of commercial satellite images at North Korea's nuclear test site, North Korea appears ready to carry out a nuclear test at any time.

2013
January 24 - North Korea's National Defense Commission says it will continue nuclear testing and long-range rocket launches in defiance of the United States. The tests and launches will feed into an "upcoming all-out action" targeting the United States, "the sworn enemy of the Korean people," the commission says.

February 12 - Conducts third nuclear test. This is the first nuclear test carried out under Kim Jong Un. Three weeks later, the United Nations orders additional sanctions in protest.

2014
March 30-31 - North Korea warns that it is prepping another nuclear test and the following day, the hostility escalates when the country fires hundreds of shells across the sea border with South Korea. In response, South Korea fires about 300 shells into North Korean waters and sends fighter jets to the border.

2015
May 6 - In an exclusive interview with CNN, the deputy director of a North Korean think tank says the country has the missile capability to strike mainland United States and would do so if the United States "forced their hand."

May 20 - North Korea says that it has the ability to miniaturize nuclear weapons, a key step toward building nuclear missiles. A US National Security Council spokesman responds that the United States does not think the North Koreans have that capability.

December 12 - North Korea state media says the country has added the hydrogen bomb to its arsenal.

2016
January 6-7 - North Korea says it has successfully conducted a hydrogen bomb test. A day after the alleged test, White House spokesman Josh Earnest says that the United States has not verified that the test was successful.

March 9 - North Korea announces that it has miniature nuclear warheads that can fit on ballistic missiles.

September 9 - North Korea claims to have detonated a nuclear warhead. According to South Korea's Meteorological Administration, the blast is estimated to have the explosive power of 10 kilotons.

2017
January 1 - In a televised address, Kim Jong Un claims that North Korea could soon test an intercontinental ballistic missile.

NK has increased it's activity of nuclear threats greatly in the last several years. Attempting to blame Trump for NK's horrible behavior is ignoring the past and not seeing KJU for what he is. I am very concerned about NK/KJU and although the US seems to deem KJU as "not" crazy, imho, he has some serious mental health and psychological issues.

As anyone can see from the info above, NK has been coddled and catered to for decades by the US and others. Sanctions have no affect on NK leaders and they personally suffer no ill effects whatsoever while the lowly slave people of NK are tortured, killed, starved and have no freedom by the hand of their own rulers.

I believe KJU wouldn't hesitate a bit to drop nuclear weapons. He lives in a very different reality. From the article above, I removed the last two entries because quite frankly, they didn't relate to NK's actions. But I'll submit them here now.

January 8 - During an interview on "Meet the Press," Defense Secretary Ash Carter says that the military will shoot down any North Korean missile fired at the United States or any of its allies.

January 12 - A US defense official tells CNN that the military has deployed sea-based radar equipment to track long-range missile launches by North Korea

Another thing that bothers me is the possibility of unconventional delivery methods for nuclear weapons which could easily be orchestrated. And in which case could cause those last two items above to be irrelevant. Several small bombs the size of a W80 or a B61 can cause a lot of damage.

a reply to: StoutBroux

Defense Secretary Carter should have said that the US "will attempt to shoot down...".

Not even he can proclaim with utter certainty that every attempt will be successful.

Of course the prospect of a failed intercept, and the devastation that would result, kind of puts a damper on the "we'll show 'em" war buzz.

/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil

en.wikipedia.org...