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Well, it was fun while it lasted...

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posted on May, 1 2017 @ 05:00 AM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
You would think we could wait until there has been something more than sabre rattling to condemn the republicans. I mean, so far Trump has not really bothered with north korea other than some intimidation. He's put that onus on the chinese in every interview I've watched.


He is deploying a carrier group and missile shield to the potential theater of war. He has convened a secret emergency meeting of Congress to discuss Korea. He seems to be actively provoking an armed response from the North Korean leadership. Please don't pretend you can't see what's coming.




posted on May, 1 2017 @ 06:35 AM
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Who is Hiding Information From Congress Jason Chaffetz Democrat m.youtube.com...



posted on May, 1 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

So? now NK is South Korea's problem, but South Korea is so unthreatened by somebody not seen as an enemy they go on military alerts and amass troops. A country they are willing to engage in combat with?

I cited evidence NK is a source of criminal active that is problematic for the region, ignores all international law, and threatens our alies with unreasonable threats of nuclear war is now only South Korea's problem?

And my only original point was not to ignore the lessons of WWII and ignore the fact a country with a ridiculous military buildup is threatening Nuclear strikes and mass casualties.


I thought your original argument was NK is not a threat to South Korea, much less to anyone else? Are you saying NK does not own the capabilities to wipe SK off the face of the earth? Are you saying NK has never fired first on SK?


Sorry my eyes are not so good. Is the link to the 41 % poll in little blue text in a sentence? I never did see the link or were you reposted the link? Sorry.

edit on 1-5-2017 by neutronflux because: Fixed this and that



posted on May, 1 2017 @ 03:43 PM
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Not certain why anyone would be surprised, Trump has surrounded himself with more military generals than any administration in recent memory. That, plus throwing more money at a military that is already ill-managed (how can you not accounts for trillions of dollars Pentagon?), made it pretty clear that Trump's "America First," and no wars statements were him just saying whatever it took to get elected.

Combine a guy with next to no political experience, and only a hazy understanding of foreign diplomacy with a room full o' retired military generals.. and this is what you get. I think they will have a ready, shoot, aim mentality for most of his Presidency.



posted on May, 1 2017 @ 05:45 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

So? now NK is South Korea's problem, but South Korea is so unthreatened by somebody not seen as an enemy they go on military alerts and amass troops. A country they are willing to engage in combat with?


Right. It is SK's problem. They're in a generations long pissing match and thats between them.

Why dont we go around and attack everyone else across the globe thats had a generations long pissing match with their neighbor????

Consider Pakistan. They really really really really are all up in the global opium/heroin trade. The helped orchestrate 9/11. Assisted / harbored / etc the Taliban / Al Qaeda / Osama Bin Laden / etc. Radical Islam mixed all in there inside and out. They have nukes!!! And they have a long history of attacking their neighbor(s).

Ever hear of Kashmir???
en.wikipedia.org...
Now that's a REAL border war! This stuff with North Korea is like kindergarten versus Harvard with that example.

And while we're at it why not attack India too?!?! Their billion people starve. The place is something like the biggest ecodisaster known to man. They have nukes. They attack their neighbor as can be seen in Kashmir. And their other neighbor, Bangladesh, they're literary diverting the rivers (the ones they havent already turned into toxic sludge anyways) meaning Bangladesh no more water when we're through with you.

Why do we not hear about all that everyday in the news? Where are the embargos??? Why aren't we being mobilized against them? Why isnt the sky falling?

Oh, that's right, because its none of our damned business. (well regarding India anyways)

And then theres that pesky old reality: The US is the biggest global tyrant, the most hardcore rogue state for decades now. Meaning we're in no position to criticize let alone attack anyone else. You might get off on living in the United States of Hypocrisy, but I refuse.


edit on 1-5-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2017 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I despise many things. Lately, I have cultivated a jaded sense of the world with an honest disconnect from all forms of assholery. Lets just say I am not playing anymore.

I hear you though. Two party system is crap.

In the end we must face the fact that North Korea is a wild cannon of our grandparents generation. One they made by being wild cannons themselves.

It is a hold over from colder times. War with them was left on the table and they in turn became a dedicated enemy of anything we do.

In order to move forward we need for other states to step up and solve the issue of an eternal enemy against us as allies.

There is nothing more to do than LET CHINA have them.

We need to scale down our areas of influence globally.

Take a page from great Britan. They kept the best parts of empire while shedding the wasteful nature of tributary states.

Our leaders globally deserve to die. They nor their descendants will change and as such our world wont change very much.

Hell I could even forgive them if they just started to make it right.

Instead they make SJW movements, neo con ass hat groups, and other such divisive enterprises with greater resolve.

The kicker? Its all for control they dont know how to use beyond the methods of barbarians from centuries ago.

The plan?

Get rid of most, prep for the fall, guide the descent....and then pretend they wont just do to eachother what they did to the rest of us in our graves....after they ruined the game the way they said WE WOULD.

They are just well educated dumb run of the mill people like we are. They voted themselves more money, ruined the heart of our wealth (the middle class) and gave us a lasting bad name for generations.

Yeah I dont want to play.

This life is just a passing one. I will wait until next life to give a damn until I die....when the world and its leaders are worth it. When I can see beyond my people and my class in their justified defiance of our injustice system.

I dont want to make them money. I dont know anymore if I can kill someone for them even if I want them gone more than they do. I cant lie to keep the party going. I want the DJ to die by disco ball and I want the house to burn to the ground.

Its the party next door to where I am. One I dont want to be invited to. One I actually think shouldnt even go on.

I want the party to be over.

Until then I will turn the sprinklers on and throw dog crap at the guests from my balcony because really...

I now live to piss on their cheerios.

"They" are everyone who has a say in this world as far as government mafias and captains of abuse industry, royalty now rotten, and financial movers and shakers of poverty and missery.


edit on 5 1 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 04:28 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

One thing to be clear about what true Libertarian beliefs are should be made very clear in the entire political movement, however. That is if they manage to be our new "leaders"!

I remember this last election Gary Johnson wildly endorsing FORCED VACCINATIONS!

True Libertarians should believe that your body is your property, if they believe in true Freedom like they preach about. The thing is that by me posting this , if the "party" reads this they may start to soften their approach to those sorts of issues when they talk to the public about their agenda.

That being said, Gary Johnson DID say he reversed his position on vaccines being forced. He even came out and spoke against vaccines and other things like genetically modified foods and junk foods and something I have mentioned on ATS: Trans fat oils, also known as Partially Hydrogenated oils (palm oil, cottonseed oil, canola oil, and MANY OTHERS). It has been proven in medical studies that PHO's can cause diabetes and severely raise a persons risk of heart attacks. At least the places that serve these things should give the customer informed consent to them basically KILLING you!

One of the biggest problems is that the LAWMAKERS do not seem to completely understand what THE PEOPLE want.

Now as to what Gary Johnson would ACTUALLY do if he got elected? Who knows? I am willing to bet that all of the "popular" parties have all of their bases covered as to serving the AGENDA if they win the election.

It isn't completely hopeless yet. I agree with Ron Paul about ending the foreign entanglements. I agree with a lot of what the politicians say in the more common sense type of things.

I could see an America where people could vote on national laws and amendments to them and at home too! That is if the system of casting your vote could be trusted. I guess that's why they haven't done something like that yet!

At the very least, States should take a more aggressive stance on repealing unreasonable laws in their own jurisdiction. In a perfect world...
edit on 5/2/2017 by InFriNiTee because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 06:27 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It's not are problem? So you are saying that there is not a history of NK conducting military actions and crimes involving our allies in the region?

Are you saying NK has not made threats agains military assets in the region and of Nuclear war with the USA and its allies?

Ever going to state what actions the USA conducted that warranted threats of nuclear war that resulted in the USA taking a stand and considering action.

Until we conduct a full out military strike, your point is moot? Or conduct a strike not desired by our allies in the region. Or NK doesn't launch a nuclear strike in retaliation.

You were worried about a nuclear strike on SK, but NK is now SK's problem.

You have tried to misrepresent my simple points, you are all over the place, and seem to deny there is a reason NK has invested in becoming a military state.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 07:14 AM
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I'll just say that the latest budget deal is a complete sham. Everybody gets what they want, as long as you're in DC politics. The left gets their crazy program funding, the right gets more defense spending. No budget cuts , no money for the wall, no accountability to the voters or tax payers. Trump has cut a deal with the now globalists and is now on board along with the neocons and neolibs. Neither party can be trusted and it took less than 100 days for an outsider to be brought to heel. Why didn't we just keep Obama or let Hillary get elected or brink back Bush? Sure they were owned completely but we knew that and didn't have false hopes that maybe they'd actually do their job and show at least a little integrity. Trump, I've written you off. I knew going into this you were a one termer and have no doubt your replacement( Cory Booker) will be an even bigger disaster than Obama was. But, you sir, you suck. I'd still vote for you over Hillary, but that's like voting for John Gotti over Jeffrey Dahmer.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: Noncents
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I agree fully and honestly I think if it can be done then the next election (or more likely the one after that, depending) will be the big chance for a third-party to take the helm. It will be neigh impossible though.

Solidarity from those that can see through the illusion is what is needed and I think that has slowly, quietly been growing over the last few decades. It's not strong enough yet though but it could be by the time the next couple elections roll around.

Too many variables.

One thing you mentioned though, the anti-war movement... yes, totally predictable. The return of the hippie / counterculture. The mj legalization issue plays into that as does the slow bubbling rise of the mostly anarchist folk-punk culture. The return of the hippie is coming and with that is a shot at a third-party in the office.

But more likely there will be another Manson and John Lennon event to kill it off as society returns to the status quo.
Best not to idealize the hippie generation. Too many drugs and irresponsibility. It was fostered by the same leftist radicals as today. Case in point Bill Aywrs and SDS. Only the names have changed.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: PhotonEffect

The US meddling in Korea? Did you forget their saber rattling prowess the last few years? Do Yeump
Wanting to actually meet with him is meddling is it? How about don't let personal bias cloud your thinking....unless you like communism.....



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:01 AM
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Dbl
Post
edit on 2-5-2017 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: neutronflux

"Appeasement"? How about we get out of South Korea, let them handle their own pissing match, and watch how quick NK loses interest in "threatening" us with "nuclear first strikes". It's a cycle of provocation, intimidation, and violence and we're all up in them guts as bad as they are you can rest assured.

AND POST YOUR DAMN SOURCE PROVING THAT THEY'VE THREATENED NUCLEAR FIRST STRIKES JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT.

Oh, and dont forget to go enlist too. You want a nuclear war well you had better be on the front lines.
You do know that South Korea is its own
Country now and the Korean war was to fight communism in the North... where have all the history books gone.,,long time passing... when will they ever learn...
edit on 2-5-2017 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2017 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 02:53 PM
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DOUBLEPOST (see below)

I ran out of character space to keep going.

And forgot to include in my lists there how even if NK does get a reasonably functional ICBM that they could try to hit US with later on down the road, our anti-ICBM capabilities are already far more advanced than their ICBM capabilities. They dont even have ICBM capability now. We already have multiple forms of anti-ICBM capability, get better at it every year, for many years now when they dont even have ICBM's yet to be a part of the race.

Meaning even if they fired a nuke someday (which is a paranoid hypothetical), unless they have hundreds of ICBM's to launch all at once then they probably wouldn't even hit US.
edit on 2-5-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It's not are problem? So you are saying that there is not a history of NK conducting military actions and crimes involving our allies in the region?


I've already DIRECTLY addressed this line of argument, again & again & again, from numerous angles. How about you directly respond to my direct responses, otherwise you're to be assumed to be some kind of automated bot and will be ignored.

>NK is merely a REGIONAL annoyance, and he's their problem. Short of an invasion or some large scale civilian deaths event, the general situation there is far FAR from the most pressing issues facing our species and not worth our focus.
>The NK/SK ordeal for what it is no where near the worst of its kind currently already happening on Earth (i.e. Pakistan|Kashmir|India), therefore your priorities are all wrong assuming such a thing on the other side of the planet are even our business to begin with, AND if we could even claim moral high ground in the first place.
>The US for over 50 years (since the real Korean War ended ironically enough) are the true lasting imperial tyrant rogue states on this planet, meaning all the reasons AND THEN SOME you argue we should invade/nuke NK the whole world should be invading/attacking US 100 times over. The US perpetually engages in all forms of war all across the planet: economic warfare (including debt enslavement, all manner of destabilization, deadly embargoes, etc), political warfare (including subversion, forcing nations into vassal state subservience, rigging elections, overthrowing democratically elected governments, global spy / double agent network, deadly terrorism, etc), psychological warfare (including propaganda of every kind, deadly terrorism, intimidation sabre rattling tactics, threats of having "all options on the table", etc)), cultural warfare (including running the bulk of the entire international narcotic drug distribution network, the War on Drugs, etc), and military warfare (which includes direct military action, proxy warfare, arming terrorists to overthrow nations, unilateral air/drone strikes, and every other dirty trick imaginable). Going by this, internationally speaking NK is practically a saint compared to the US (the only nation to ever nuke another nation), while domestically speaking when you really dig into the details the US even an angel either.
>SK & Japan each has more population (51 million & 127 million) than NK (25 million), SK & Japan each have far more money & industry to wage a lasting war than NK, so NK couldn't possibly hope to defeat either of them in a war let alone both of them as it would become.
>SK & Japan both have US military bases present, therefore NK wont nuke them without expecting to be wiped literally off the map forever.
>Less than half of South Koreans even consider Lil Kim their "enemy", meaning far less than half support triggering a total war with him just to make him quit being the annoying twerp that he is...

>The consequences of attacking NK guarantee major scale destruction, chaos and mega-death; could very possibly even set in motion events that could trigger global nuclear apocalypse.
>The benefits of triggering total war with NK amount to merely trying to prevent them from being able to nuke attack anyone besides their neighbors (whom they've never nuke attacked BTW), oh, and the Military Industrial Complex titans they get to run the national debt even further up on our backs (further solidifying our debt slavery as individuals, further expanding our debt slavery as a nation to the Bankster Cartel and to China, accelerating the already inevitable total economic collapse of our nation that alone could achieve a LONG lasting 'post apocalypse' type outcome scenario).
=Therefore when adding up the "benefits" and the inherent CONSEQUENCES the inherent outcome of attacking NK is hopelessly a LOSE-LOSE scenario, all to prevent a big fat MAYBE scenario further down the road.


Are you saying NK has not made threats agains military assets in the region and of Nuclear war with the USA and its allies?


I've already DIRECTLY addressed this line of argument, again & again & again, from numerous angles. How about you directly respond to my direct responses, otherwise you're to be assumed to be some kind of automated bot and will be ignored.

Most of my list above applies here too, for numerous reasons, now add:
>Imagine if you were NK, imagine if our neighbors hated and embargoed US, and then China had bases in those nations, and China was engaging US for decades with all forms of war (political, economic, psychological, etc) while their population half of them were all across all forms of media & polls saying they want to invade US, and all the rest of the tables there were turned on US here: We'd be doing and saying the same stuff. We'd already be nuking people long before that would even occur considering people already want to nuke tiny NK for merely posturing and talking smack in the grander scale of things.
>These alleged "threats" are more like warnings all the ones I've seen (your own examples the one the quote wasn't even the complete sentence let alone complete paragraph / statement). Telling someone you'll attack them if you attack them / wont stop attacking them is a warning not a threat.


Ever going to state what actions the USA conducted that warranted threats of nuclear war that resulted in the USA taking a stand and considering action.


>US being there constantly banging the drums of war against NK throws fuel on the fire of an already inflamed situation:

North Korea says U.S. bomber flights push peninsula to brink of nuclear war
North Korea accused the United States on Tuesday of pushing the Korean peninsula to the brink of nuclear war after a pair of strategic U.S. bombers flew training drills with the South Korean and Japanese air forces in another show of strength. The two supersonic B-1B Lancer bombers were deployed amid rising tensions over North Korea's pursuit of its nuclear and missile programmes in defiance of U.N. sanctions and pressure from the United States. ...North Korea said the bombers conducted "a nuclear bomb dropping drill against major objects" in its territory at a time when Trump and "other U.S. warmongers are crying out for making a preemptive nuclear strike" on the North.

>The US commits ACTS OF WAR against NK: Economic, Political, Psychological, Cultural, etc.



Until we conduct a full out military strike, your point is moot? Or conduct a strike not desired by our allies in the region. Or NK doesn't launch a nuclear strike in retaliation.

You were worried about a nuclear strike on SK, but NK is now SK's problem.

You have tried to misrepresent my simple points, you are all over the place, and seem to deny there is a reason NK has invested in becoming a military state.


I dont even know what you're saying with all that. Do you?

NK has been contained forever now. They can posture to demand respect. The world cracks its jokes. Whatever. But NK is far from being a MAJOR THREAT. The arguments to attack them are pure hypocrite paranoia
edit on 2-5-2017 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

How is a country that can place a nuclear warhead on a missile contained.

Can you even answer what rational reason whould warrant NK to threat a nuclear war.

Your long post just makes you seem irrational and a denier a country like NK that is sinking almost all their money into a abnormally large military might be a bigger warmonger the the USA. It seems NK's military build up makes NK just as guilty, if not more so, of the accusations you bring against Trump.

What treaties is NK bound to out of good faith?

This post is dead. The only person you are trying to convince that NK will not conduct an unprovoked nuclear strike is you!
edit on 2-5-2017 by neutronflux because: Fixed this and that



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 06:23 PM
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I thought Germany after World War One was defeated, stripped of arms, and totally CONTAINED. Funny what happen when the world Ignored a little defeated country the world stripped of its right to arm its self? Then that little country pursued total and all out militarization while the world ignored the military buildup for peace or any cost? Sounds nothing like North Korea.


Sorry it's easier for you to deny that NK is arming itself with hopes of regional control, and the lessons of WWII.



posted on May, 2 2017 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Way to gloss over a Mother Of All Rebuttals response!

Where are they going? Are they going to commit suicide??

Getting themselves the capability to counter attack people across the world that in their eyes are bullies isn't irrational.

Are you able to put yourself into their shoes for even half a second? Pychopath's aren't able to put themselves into other people shoes.

Read my post again. Note the population differential with just SK vs NK, and then Japan vs NK, and then add the US into that mix and then pour over all that the economic.industrial/military might of everyone versus them. I expect they're scared, but act tough so that people wouldn't dare actually attack them (as anyone should do in the face of a bully; as a dog would if cornered by a bear).

And more hypocrisy: you're going to underscore their military ratio when they really are cornered with seriously superior forces threatening them (in their eyes)... but never mind how the US spends about a TRILLION dollars a year maintaining this offensively "defensive" empire across the globe "to fight back all the threats and enemies" (which never mind how they only exist because of said trillion dollar annual militarism), so its totally rational for US to do it even though nobody in the world can defeat US short of nuclear Armageddon but for NK to have a "lot" of military oh well they're aggressive tyrants scum that need to be destroyed (but we're the "good guys" to be admired).

In all of your obsessive paranoia which drips with unapologetic hypocrisy of the most outlandish variety, you make no sense: all the reasons you say to attack / FEAR / etc NK are all the things the US is. You should be admiring him if anything.

Alright I'm done. Go ahead, get the last word. I already know how your mind works: as long as you get the last word then you "win" and your ambitions to see World War 3 get underway are justified. But I'm done with you: your arguments are an annoying bore, your logic is circular, you're incapable of putting yourself in other peoples shoes, you dodge the tough debate challenges which is no fun while you act like they never happened which is deluded, you offer nothing insightful such as other historical / geopolitical contexts so I at least learn some new things along the way, etc...

But please do GET THE LAST WORD with yet more pointless weak circular poppycock. You're "right", the whole world should just start launching nukes at each other.



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 08:09 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Can you even be honest. Can you even answer direct question? What percentage of NK's budget is spent on their military Vs the percentage of the US budget on the military. How much aid does China give NK each year?

How do you contain a country that can put nuclear warheads on missiles?



posted on May, 6 2017 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux


First of all --- they haven't. As a matter of fact they are not even able to successfully launch an ICBM in a test scenario. Long way to go to get that nuke designed to successfully mount. And let's say they did. And let's say they launched. And let's say all our anti-missile technology fails. And let's say one or more successfully detonate on U.S. soil. What would happen next?


All interested parties (NK, China, Russia, Japan, SK, Philippines) have been told that if NK launches at the US (also likely including our allies), we will respond with overwhelming force leaving no gov't or Kim private asset standing.



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