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originally posted by: Hecate666
OP, as someone who doesn't believe in any manmade gods and who is/ was a scientist, I can't get my head around your post.
First of all, being an Atheist is not a label I even give to myself because Atheism is the base standard when you are born. We are all born as Atheists and then some adults come along and teach us whatever they deem acceptable.
I am not to keen on that label. If you call yourself a christian or a muslim, yeah because you chose that belief but Atheist is a term given to us 'natural' people by believers. I am nothing but a human.
Anyway. My biggest gripe about the post is that Atheism and spirituality can't go together.
What a load of crock. I would go as far as to say that it is impossible to become properly spiritual as long as you are caught within religious boundaries as you are stopped from thinking further.
I am one of the most spiritual people you could meet, I am spiritual, what you call an Atheist and a scientist! [Shock]
All fits in really snug in my life and I have reached a point of a great understanding about life, the universe and a lot of other things.
As to militant scientists. If they refuse to open their minds to spirituality, then they are no scientists as they have no understanding of what science means. Spirituality is still somewhere explainable by science. Everything is if it exists.
How you can use THOSE people to change your entire belief system shows me that you have a long way to go to find YOUR true self.
You must base your inner journey not on outside groups of people but where your inner self takes you.
Don't care about idiots, they have their own life journey. You have yours.
The popular rebuttal to me admitting that would be "if somebody else's belief system cannot be changed, why bother changing it if you won't be successful? Just let them keep believing what they do until they realise they are wrong and hopefully then they will join
originally posted by: Justso
1. No-spirituality has no definition unless you are a religious sort.
2. Never said existence of a God is knowable-it isn't-as far as I know.
3. Nope-didn't read it-or understand what you are saying.
4. Disagree-your opinion-no way you can prove that-the times they are a-changin.
Your op, while interesting-reads like a parable-going round and round-I may have missed some of your concepts but did the best I could.
Without man there is no science. So shouldn't science be interested in everything that man is? Even in his spirituality? But this isn't the case at all.
Science acknowledges its limits; what cannot be reliably and repeatedly observed and recorded is outside its sphere. The scientific method needs solid data to work on; if there isn't any, science is lost. Some people think this means science denies spirituality. It does not, although many scientists and scientific materialists do. But there is nothing in science that demands this.
originally posted by: ClovenSky
Man Dark Ghost, it appears to you have poked the hornets nest. Sweet.
I always thought the true atheists were just as religious as the followers of the abrahamic religions. From my point of view, they claim knowledge, definitive knowledge that there is NOT a god. That we are just a biomass of electronic signals and once those signals stop, we are done. Nothing after, no soul, no spirit and nothing that survives death.
Agnostics simply claim they have no clue. There is no evidence that supports or denies the existence of a god. That there is veil between this world and the next that will prevent spiritual/physical knowledge.
But I wonder what drives the urge of belief for a lot of the religious? Could it be that the majority of people actually experience the spiritual. That religion satisfies that mystery and they no longer have to search for answers?[/quote
Perhaps so, that is a reasonable assumption for many of them, not all of course. Anyway, I personally cannot stop searching because my life is not worthy to live unless I am consistently examining it. (A paraphrase of an ancient philosopher's quote).
I like what another poster stated, spirituality can be completely separate from religion.
Spirituality an aspect of religion. Unfortunately, most people who are adherents of a monotheistic religion believe organisation of their religion is more important than the spirituality part.
[v]Maybe like the yin yang we are a combination of both the physical and spiritual.
So, if there is a group of people trying to get rid of spirituality, what ate they trying to accomplish?
originally posted by: Annee
Science is known knowledge from what we understand. Proven in ways understood.
It is not unknown knowledge.
As a "true" atheist should also claim agnostic. As in agnostic atheist.
God can not be proven or unproven from what we know and how we know it.
I think you don't understand what atheists are. We are not people with a belief system, we are people who do not believe the claims of those people who say that gods exist. Those people try to use their unsubstantiated claims to tell other people how they should live their lives. We ask for demonstrable proof for these claims and there is never anything presented. At some point you stop asking for the proof and start pointing out that there is none.
originally posted by: Catcolouredpaint
a reply to: Dark Ghost
A good way to understand this topic is to imagine a pendulum swing, on one side of the swing are strongly religious people, on the other side of the swing are strongly atheist people. Without realising it they are often one and the same, they are both groups of people with strong belief systems about the world around them. They will both fight their corners in an ignorant and arrogant manor using false logic to defend their position.
The middle ground of the swing is the realm of agnostic people, we look for evidence without denying the possibility that each side may have something to contribute.
In my personal experience atheism is born largely out of egotism. Atheists believe that they are more intelligent than religious people and scoff at ideas of spirituality and anything that is beyond their current understanding. Yet without realising it they have chosen to be a part of the most useless and intolerant of all religions, their belief system provides no benefit to themselves, people around them or society as a whole. Even science can suffer at the hands of an atheist. Hence the only real benefit being egotistical satisfaction.