It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Im a muslim

page: 5
0
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:02 PM
link   
Ritual, you haven't read any of the Holy Books, you have no clue what religious people believe in, yet you have an opinion on it? hmmmm how interesting.

I do not understand what those random sentences are supposed to mean. One talks about God's will and doing, one talks about forgivness of sins.
One talks about how to act in WAR, BATTLE, when defending your life, family, home etc, etc, you know, the thing every human being does instinctively, defend themselves ( the concept of defensive against offensive war is explained throughout the Qur'an )

Here is a better, more acurate translation of those verses... actually 3 different translations of Qur'an to compare:

www.usc.edu...




posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by Fitzpatrick
I have a question i annoy my muslim mates by asking questions all the time so lets see how you do.

Why do women generally wear robes and some around covering there whole bodies




According to Qur'an, both men and women should dress modestly, nowhere does it say that women should be completely covered. It is a tradition which existed before Islam in many cultures, jewish, arab, greek, roman, women used to wear a veil across their face very often in those times.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:34 PM
link   
I thought that some groups of muslims say that women have to so that men dont oogle over them so to speak



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:43 PM
link   
the muslims are no better or worst than christians or any other religion because they are religious! They trust the saint book, they beleive in a savior who came here long time ago and think that their god is the best....

What is the difference? There is none...exept that they have different values on some subject...their god is the same as our, it's the prophet that is different.

Everybody wants their god to be better than the other guy's god...that is why religion did not do a great job by putting people at peace.

I respect muslims, christians, boudhist, hindouist and most of all, I respect individuals!

Love, Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by Gazrok
I thank babloyi for answering in the absence of our poster. In two days and 4 pages, yet to make a response when an open invite to question was posed. Because of this, I'll close the thread. Tomcat ha, if you'd send me a U2U that you'd like it re-opened, and actually answer some of the questions posed, I'll be more than happy to re-open it, but otherwise, it has the appearance of "trolling". babloyi, if you'd wish to start your own thread and answer questions posed to you about being muslim, please feel free to do so....

Thanks.






I found it kinda insulting that these people who place these offers and either dont answer or they just are baiting you in for a fight, I was really interested in the muslim view to my particular questions but that was a buster, so I gave up on page two.

[edit on 7/2/2005 by drbryankkruta]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 04:48 PM
link   
I'm a muslim

So what?

Are you a good muslim? Good i'm glad.


Are you a bad Muslim?
Shame on you, as any one else of any religion who is a bad person.

Personally, my hatred is only directed towards evil people.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by drbryankkruta




My second is the conversion issue seems one sided, it is being put forth by many that coversion to the muslim faith is okay , but coversion away can end up costing the prospective convert and their guides to conversion their lives litterally and spiritually.


It has to do with how Muslims view their own faith.
As you might know, Qur'an isn't a "new" book, it contains all previous religious stories, starting with creation of universe, right up to Mohammad, plus it contains a lot of instructions which were previously not or only partialy revealed to people. Muslims see Qur'an as a perfect book and Islam as a complete religion, containing all previous ones.
So, converting from Islam to other religion is seen as a step backwards, sort of. You change from complete to incomplete, partial.
Muslims respect other religions and consider other religious people as believers, but the only book which contains everything is Qur'an.

Now, nowhere in the Qur'an does it say that those who convert face death, quite the contrary. It is stated many times that there is no compulsion in religion, it is your free choice. The Qur'an is presented, revealed to human kind. It is up to individual to accept it or not.


How those extremists come up with punishments for conversion, or any other deed that doesn't suit them for that matter, is beyond me.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:15 PM
link   
Islam: You goto heaven for loyalty in Allah and only Allah.
Christianity: You goto heaven for faith in Jesus.

Whoa. Hold up. Which one is it? Doesnt look like I can possibly get to heaven in this predicament.

Since this discussion is about Muslim's can you tell me what proof there is that Allah exists so I can make the right decision here.

Do I have to subscribe to killing the other side as soon as I start beleiving? I mean they are nonbeleivers. The Koran says they all die and goto hell. I never liked my friends anways, they dont even have faith in Allah, who cares about them right? We only beleive so we can goto heaven anyways.


And your saying I have to be tolerant to these views? LOL but maybe tomcat can all show us the power of Allah. Oh sorry Allah doesnt actually show you his power until AFTER you are dead, how useful and comforting.




[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ritual
Islam: You goto heaven for loyalty in Allah and only Allah.
Christianity: You goto heaven for faith in Jesus.

Whoa. Hold up. Which one is it? Doesnt look like I can possibly get to heaven in this predicament.

Since this discussion is about Muslim's can you tell me what proof there is that Allah exists so I can make the right decision here. Oh sorry, we ourselves invented religion and we have nothing but inspiring stories of apocalypse to keep our faith.

Do I have to subscribe to killing the other side as soon as I start beleiving? I mean they are nonbeleivers. The Koran says they all die and goto hell. Pfff I never liked my friends anways, they dont even have faith in Allah, who cares about them right?


And your saying I have to be tolerant to these views? LOL but maybe tomcat can all show us the power of Allah. Oh sorry Allah doesnt actually show you his power until AFTER you are dead, how useful and comforting.


[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]


In Islam you go to heaven when you believe in God (Allah means God in arabic), believe in ALL prophets, including Jesus, and lead a righteous life.
Muslims believe in Jesus, I thought you knew that.
The final judgement is in the hands of God, who is very often refered to as "most merciful and forgiving" in Qur'an. So, where you are going I do not know, you have to ask God that.

Religion is about faith in God, not proof of God. One chooses to believe or not.

You do not have to kill anyone. In fact, if you kill, you go to hell. Murder of innocents is an unforgivable sin. To kill is only allowed in self-defence when your life is threatened and in battle, war, when your home, land, family is attacked you are allowed to kill those who wish to kill you.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 05:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by paperclip

You do not have to kill anyone. In fact, if you kill, you go to hell. Murder of innocents is an unforgivable sin. To kill is only allowed in self-defence when your life is threatened and in battle, war, when your home, land, family is attacked you are allowed to kill those who wish to kill you.


What about the verses in the Quran that say in so many words to kill Jews and Christians?

[edit on 7-2-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by vincere7
A clean up. Here is a thought if you are not a Muslim or a Christian discussing a clean-up of our Holy Books is simply an insult. If you are a Christian or a Muslim - shame on you for your lack of education. Is the insult highly regarded? It is the same coming from a man or woman who not knowing how to fight wishes to point out how you shoul've thrown your left instead of your right. Unknowledgeable opinions or insults never matter in the first place for they are merely words spoken by individuals who lack in the very thing they criticize.


that is the problem my friend...
you shout about insult... it is your infamous pride that bears the insult, not mine...
I aknowledge the obvious: what our religious scholars were heretic to discuss for 1000-1500 years after our bible was written... that it shoud be cleansed of the impure texts...
it took over 1300 years to be considered...

and i am still under the firm belief that the Qur'an should be as well.

Perhaps not the actual books of the qur'an, but perhaps the side texts...
(this is no more than what christianity did 500years ago...)
basically all the ones that are no longer true for muslims today... for instance...
is this why some sects of islam hate each other even more than they hate the jew? because some follow strict dogma, and some permit more personal interpretation... (as in the formal dress permitted for muslim women)

I do not mean ANY insult by saying this... and if anyone tkes it as such...then they are beyond talking to... they are a fanatic
This may seem like a harsh treatment of a holy scripture, but it has kept the faith of christianity true in the face of much critism during that time and this...
it prevented church leaders from having to defend scriptures that no one supported...

I personally was rather upset when the 14th century scholars removed my gnostic gospels... IMO they were the truest form of christianity...



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by dbrandt


What about the verses in the Quran that say in so many words to kill Jews and Christians?



uhmmm I m not aware of such verses.

Qur'an on righteous Jews and Christians:

3:113 among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate (they pray)
[3:114] They believe in GOD and the Last Day, they advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and they hasten to do righteous works. These are the righteous.
[3:115] Any good they do will not go unrewarded. GOD is fully aware of the righteous.

[5:44] We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in GOD's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers.

[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

[5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.

[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

These are just a few examples of many pasages where jews are christians are called believers, righteous, followers of scripture (in some translations People of the Book, followers of previous scriptures).

There is no word on killing them all.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:26 PM
link   
paperclip.

pls go read the koran.


i finally figured out why im not religious. this stuff is so boring and pointless(besides having good morals) and totally inconsistant.

im going to invent my own religion. it will date back to 1 billion years ago before the dinosaurs. there was a man named "ritual". 1 billion years into the future someone will make up stories that "ritual" was a prophet and struck his enemies with great power and destruction to inspire followers. in reality "ritual" never existed because he would be dinosaur food, but we will pretend we find some documents on some piece of rock that we found buried 13 miles in the earths crust that proves "ritual" existed and performed miracles.

the only way to get to heaven is to have faith in "ritual".

so since i am the resurrection of the prophet "ritual" all Islamic people must have faith in me since I am a great prophet 1 billion years old.

my religion is called allhailritualism.

there now religion is complete. I now fit into heaven since I was an athiest before. this way I dont have to beleive in Islam or chirstianity to get into heaven. I can call myself a prophet and be a follower of allhailritualism. now I have the respect of all theother religions. I feel much better now.

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by paperclip
Religion is about faith in God, not proof of God. One chooses to believe or not.


You couldn't be more wrong. What fool would believe in something never to have proof of his belief? Those who believe in God receive proof. If you have not received proof then you are believing in a false God.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by vincere7
Those who believe in God receive proof. If you have not received proof then you are believing in a false God.


Now I am intrigued. What kind of proof have you received?



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:39 PM
link   
Receiving the Holy Spirit.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by vincere7

Originally posted by paperclip
Religion is about faith in God, not proof of God. One chooses to believe or not.


You couldn't be more wrong. What fool would believe in something never to have proof of his belief? Those who believe in God receive proof. If you have not received proof then you are believing in a false God.


do you think you could be a little more HOLIER THAN THOU? just wondering if you could turn it UP another notch...
in my religion, we have a little saying goes something like this... let him without sin cast the first stone...

Ritual... i will join your church, as long as self righteous people have no place in it.... (and I get the concession contract)

it is good to believe fervently in what you believe, but to beleive so much and with such judgement, that you scare people away is not serving your God, for you will win no converts....

I do get your point about having faith, I do, because i have proof, thru my faith... until i had faith, i didn't have proof,... see the problem with that circular arguement...?

[edit on 7-2-2005 by LazarusTheLong]



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by vincere7
Receiving the Holy Spirit.


Can you please elaborate on that? Have you felt the holy spirit? Seen it?

Can you quantify it in terms of scientific definition of proof? Cause that is the kind of proof I was refering to.

I am not saying that it didn't happen.
I am just saying that personal belief that it happened isn't usualy considered "proof" of God in discussions like these.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 06:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
do you think you could be a little more HOLIER THAN THOU? just wondering if you could turn it UP another notch...
in my religion, we have a little saying goes something like this... let him without sin cast the first stone...
I do get your point about having faith, I do, because i have proof, thru my faith... until i had faith, i didn't have proof,... see the problem with that circular arguement...?

[edit on 7-2-2005 by LazarusTheLong]


I don't recall casting stones at anyone. I made a statement that it would be foolish to believe in something that offered no proof.

My belief of someone being foolish to believe in something that offers no validity is my belief and this certainly does not make me holier than thou as you castigated. I find that the holier than thou statement is used in a wide range of criticism generally used when one feels inadequate in their beliefs or used to paint a picture to obscure an individual from receiving further knoweldge on a subject. If I was holier than thou I would have said, "I am better than you," or "I am more righteous than you," and as you can see I never made such statements.

The statement I did make however was valid and the only reason to be offended by such is if you're one of those individuals who have received no proof. Also saying that one can only receive salvation through Jesus Christ is also offensive but many thus do believe just that.



posted on Feb, 7 2005 @ 07:19 PM
link   
Receiving the Holy Spirit as those who first believed on Christ, on the day of Pentecost, is something every Christian is entitled to. Yes this is validation for you. Yes you feel the Holy Spirit when it comes to dwell in you. It is without doubt the most powerful experience of your life.

This is not something a minister, priest, or holy man must grant you but rather you receive the Holy Spirit merely by asking Christ to send it to you. This is basic knowledge. Yes it's spectacular and I am sure if one were to hook up machines to the body and gauge heartrate and the such during the time the Holy Spirit came on you as you speak different languages fluently I would say scientifically this could be gauged however I am not aware of such record.

Millions of people on the planet could give you a similar description of what they did when the Holy Spirit comes upon them. And though many who do not understand this make foolish statements such as, "you are mad," or "was it an alien abduction," which C.S Lewis would provide a hearty lecture. I am no C.S. Lewis in my speech but it is rather clear from Doctors to bums on the street those who receive the Holy Spirit of God do so by accepting Christ and asking for such. I do not think I would be a Christian had I not received the Holy Spirit - for the troubles of life and the foolishness of man tend to rob religion of it's 'attrbutes.' God knows this and is why He has sent the helper or Holy Spirit to bear to you not only living proof of your belief in Him but a continual guiding as you grown in charity, faith, and in gifts God bestows.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join