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IRA withdraws disarmament offer

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posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 04:47 AM
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BELFAST (Reuters) - The Irish Republican Army has withdrawn an offer to disarm, dealing a new blow to peacemaking efforts in Northern Ireland.

The IRA did not threaten a return to violence, but the move underlines the political deadlock gripping the province since the group was accused by Britain and Ireland of mounting a massive bank raid in Belfast in December.

today.reuters.co.uk...

This is very troubling news. I hope this doesn't become a return to past violence in such a beautiful place.............



JAK

posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 04:58 AM
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It is being stated that the reason behind this was blaming the IRA for the Noethern Bank raid.

A lot of tosh. These people have hurt feelings and so are unwilling to deal? Rubbish. Anyone who knows realises the the IRA is about organised crime and money now, and they don't want to lose that position.

Threats in such circles carry much more weight when back up with force and they are concerned about losing status and being consigned to history.

Anyone who believes the IRA are still a political group any further than it suits them is mistaken.

Jack



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:16 AM
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It is about Crime JAK you are right, even when i served there in the late 80's it was about money and Crime and that goes for the Protestant factions as well. Between them the Provos and the Protestant terror groups ran numbers, illegal gambling, prostitution, drugs and bank raids.
The IRA were never going to give up their weapons. They will not pursue a peaceful solution to the Troubles they want nothing short of a complete integration of Northern Ireland into the Republic. A lot of people, especially people in the US have this romantic idea about the IRA being freedom fighters shaking off the British yoke, fighting the good fight, the reality is quite different. The IRA and the protestant terror groups are no different to the insurgents and Terrorists that are found in the Middle East. They are merciless stone cold killers and we (UK) fought them to a stand still to a point where they had no choice but to take the peace process seriously, but it was never going to last.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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Several years ago, I was in London to give a speech. As we landed an announcement came over the PA that IRA had just "machine gunned" a pub. There would be additional "security". Buy the time I got to the hotel, across from Scotland Yard there had been several more attacks. My plans to visit "Dublin" were canceled for me. I ended up going to "Paris" instead, I am still pissed off at the IRA for that. I really hope all that "death" doesn't ever return.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:31 AM
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first of all,
if you know the meaning of the word bloody sunday,
you should know why IRA exists today.
and if something like that happened where i live,
i would be a memeber of IRA too.

but then again,
this is politcs we are talking about.
and english prime minister tony blair,
has proved to be a real "terrorists hunter".
so what else ramains, than a declaration of war against any terrorists,
irish, muslim, whatever...




"The fact remains that it was the IRA that did carry out the Northern Bank robbery and as the prime minister and the taoiseach said on Tuesday therefore it is the IRA that is the sole obstacle to moving forward," he said.

The IRA has denied any involvement in the £26.5m Northern Bank raid in Belfast last December.

Wednesday's statement said: "Our initiatives have been attacked, devalued and dismissed by pro-unionist and anti-republican elements, including the British government. The Irish government have lent themselves to this.


"The IRA had better realise that we will not be bullied or threatened and we will accept nothing less than the complete and utter end of all terror and criminal activity and the decommissioning of all their illegal weaponry in a transparent manner."

Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams said the statement was "evidence of a deepening crisis", one which he very much regretted.


source:
news.bbc.co.uk



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:35 AM
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Souljah,

It's amazing to me how you can support every terrorist organization on Earth! It's really mind-blowing...what do you have to say about the Basques?



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:37 AM
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Perhaps it wont be like it used to be Dr, at least i hope it wont be. But the punishment beatings and kneecappings still go on, its just not news anymore so we dont get to hear about it. In my 2 years serving in Northern Ireland there were numerous bombings, shootings and riots. But a lot of those, except the riots, went unreported. It was a dirty and dangerous War where the lines of battle were undefined. A little like the situation in Iraq but on a much smaller scale. We never truly defeated the Terrorists in Northern Ireland and i dont believe we ever could because Terrorism is by its very nature fragmentary. We were forced to use tactics that were deemed un acceptable such as using Protestant Terror groups to do the killing for us as with case of Pat Finucane.
We were running out of options and ideas at the time.
A black time for everyone, especially the families directly affected by the troubles.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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Souljah,

You fail to mention the murders that the IRA have committed in the name of their so called cause.

Enniskillen, Omagh, Warrington, Birmingham etc. etc. they indiscriminally killed Men, Women and Children.

The Provisional IRA are not fighting a cause they are murdering for power.

Much the same way as the insurgents are today in Iraq.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by Janus
Perhaps it wont be like it used to be Dr, at least i hope it wont be. But the punishment beatings and kneecappings still go on, its just not news anymore so we dont get to hear about it. In my 2 years serving in Northern Ireland there were numerous bombings, shootings and riots. But a lot of those, except the riots, went unreported. It was a dirty and dangerous War where the lines of battle were undefined. A little like the situation in Iraq but on a much smaller scale. We never truly defeated the Terrorists in Northern Ireland and i dont believe we ever could because Terrorism is by its very nature fragmentary. We were forced to use tactics that were deemed un acceptable such as using Protestant Terror groups to do the killing for us as with case of Pat Finucane.
We were running out of options and ideas at the time.
A black time for everyone, especially the families directly affected by the troubles.


I have several "associates" that were in the SAS in those days. You did what had to be done. The world really doesn't "get it".



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:44 AM
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Souljah, the IRA were active well before the Bloody Sunday incident. The killing of troops had been going on long before that. Bloody Sunday was not the catalyst for the IRA but it did raise recruitment in the IRA for years to come.
The Paratrooper were the wrong troops to send to a situation like that, they are Combat Troops and as such at the time did not have the nessesary training needed to cope with a march like the one on Bloody Sunday. It was a lesson that we had to learn the hard way, i wasnt there so i wouldnt feel qualified to make a comment as to what really went on that day.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid


I have several "associates" that were in the SAS in those days. You did what had to be done. The world really doesn't "get it".


Yes we did what we had to do as someone who believes in God that dosent sit well with me. But the IRA left us no choice, we had to fight the way they do in order to at least try to defeat them. I could list hundreds of incidents of IRA and Protestant atrocities and yes quite a lot of British ones as well. That was the nature of our war on Terror, a War that cost us thousands of lives and as many injured. There were never any parades or monuments to Honor our service and sacrifice but i am confident i played a part in preventing many more deaths and am content with that.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:07 AM
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it seems that for every "terrorists" organisation,
the strong imperialistic countires try to eliminate,
a few new arise.

and for every dead and shot memeber of the "terrorists",
ten new memebers come.
why?
why is that so?

does every empire need a terrorists organisation on the "other side"?
british have the IRA,
u.s. have the taliban and iraqi terrorists,
russians have the chechens.

it seem that this is the way of the modern world of politics.

and last, but not least,
ALL of these strong empires CREATED the "enemy terrorists" themselves!
they didnt come out of nowhere!

or do you think these people enjoy the war and suffering,
and love to hide and shoot in the streets?
do you think that this is their idea of fun?



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Janus

Yes we did what we had to do as someone who believes in God that dosent sit well with me. But the IRA left us no choice, we had to fight the way they do in order to at least try to defeat them. I could list hundreds of incidents of IRA and Protestant atrocities and yes quite a lot of British ones as well. That was the nature of our war on Terror, a War that cost us thousands of lives and as many injured. There were never any parades or monuments to Honor our service and sacrifice but i am confident i played a part in preventing many more deaths and am content with that.


Would you compare Iraq and the way the terrorist are doing things with Northern Ireland and the IRA.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Souljah,
It's amazing to me how you can support every terrorist organization on Earth! It's really mind-blowing...what do you have to say about the Basques?


i guess you learned everything about IRA from doctror ryan in patriot games,
right?





posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
it seems that for every "terrorists" organisation,
the strong imperialistic countires try to eliminate,
a few new arise.

and for every dead and shot memeber of the "terrorists",
ten new memebers come.
why?
why is that so?

does every empire need a terrorists organisation on the "other side"?
british have the IRA,
u.s. have the taliban and iraqi terrorists,
russians have the chechens.

it seem that this is the way of the modern world of politics.

and last, but not least,
ALL of these strong empires CREATED the "enemy terrorists" themselves!
they didnt come out of nowhere!

or do you think these people enjoy the war and suffering,
and love to hide and shoot in the streets?
do you think that this is their idea of fun?


No and it wasnt my idea of fun either, have you ever been on patrol in some dark back street jumping at shadows, it most certainly isnt "fun"
I didnt create the mess in Northern Ireland, i and thousands like me had to try and clean it up. I will not be made to feel guilty for that, i did what i had to do and would do the same again.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
or do you think these people enjoy the war and suffering,
and love to hide and shoot in the streets?
do you think that this is their idea of fun?


Yes I actually think they do!

You quote Mahatma Gandi in your signature, why don't you advocate his type of resistance? If the cause is valid, that usually works.

But the terrorists you support don't have a valid cause since they are a minority who wishes to impose their will on the majority!



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid


Would you compare Iraq and the way the terrorist are doing things with Northern Ireland and the IRA.


Yes but on a much more violent scale, the Insurgents have taken Terrorism to another level by using Beheadings and video to tape their actions and broadcast them on the net. Very clever tactic, terrible but effective. They use the same cell system refined by the IRA and use much the same hit and run tactics. Remember the IRA did a lot of training in places like Syria and Lybia so the Terrorists there will have picked up a few things. I see the situation as much the same as the one in Northern Ireland but on a much larger and more deadly scale. The US would do well to use the Anti-terror services that the UK has at their disposal, they know how to fight a dirty War.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:40 AM
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The Irish Republican Army
and the armed struggle in Irish politics


There has always been a tradition of armed resistance to the British military and political occupation of Ireland. This tradition generally only found effective expression when after a period of non-armed agitation, large sections of the Irish people, faced with the British government's denial of the legitimate demand for Irish independence, exercised the right to use armed struggle.

This was the case with the organisation from which modern Irish republicans trace their origins - the United Irishmen of the 1790s. Inspired by the example of the American War of Independence and by the democratic ideals of the French Revolution, the United Irishmen sought to unite the people of Ireland in a common effort to achieve equality and freedom. Choosing initially non-violent means to win their aims, the United Irishmen quickly met with a repressive response from the British government. It was only then that they exercised their right as Irish people to defend their liberty by the use of arms. It was a pattern that was to be repeated several times in the next century and a half.

Armed uprisings against British rule took place in 1798, 1803, 1848 and 1867. The 45 years between 1803 and 1848 saw the Irish population mobilised in one of the first mass movements for political reform in the history of Europe. The demand for legislative independence for Ireland, though democratically expressed by the overwhelming majority of the people, was denied by the British government.

The Great Hunger of 1845-1852 saw a million people starve and a million more emigrate yet this catastrophe befell an unarmed people and there was only sporadic resistance. The ill-fated uprising of 1848 was localised and abortive.

The lessons of this period were not lost on succeeding generations of Irish patriots and the Fenian Movement of the late 1850s and 1860s won widespread support in Ireland and America for its programme of armed struggle to achieve an Irish Republic. The uprising of 1867 was crushed and another 49 years were to pass before Irish nationalists attempted an armed resistance.

Those 49 years witnessed the most intense period of Irish 'constitutional' agitation for independence. Waged through electoral politics and campaigns for land reform in Ireland, and by the Irish Party in the debating chamber in the British House of Commons, this struggle saw the overwhelming majority of the Irish people again express their desire for independence from Britain. But legislation for Home Rule - limited self-government within the British Empire - was defeated in the British parliament in 1886 and 1893.

In January 1919 Sinn Féin had established an independent Irish parliament - Dáil Eireann - and declared the sovereignty of Ireland as a Republic. They formed independent institutions including a functioning central government, ministerial departments and republican courts of law. The Irish Volunteers became the Army of the Republic, under the Ministry of Defence and pledging its allegiance to Dáil Eireann.

The response from the British government was to ban all these institutions and declare war on the new Irish democracy.

This period saw international revulsion at the campaign waged by British crown forces in Ireland. Three mayors of Irish cities, all members of the IRA, were killed by the British; martial law was declared through nearly half of the country; streets, shops and factories in many towns were burnt to the ground; there were executions in prisons and torture in internment camps. In response the IRA waged an increasingly effective guerrilla campaign against the crack troops of the British - the Auxiliaries and Black and Tans.

The guerrilla tactics used at this time - notably those of Tom Barry's Flying Column in Cork - later became textbook examples of this type of warfare. The popular Irish struggle, both in its civil and military side, inspired future anti-colonial struggles throughout the world.

In 1949 in response to the British government's Ireland Act which reinforced partition all parties in the Irish parliament declared their unanimous opposition to partition. The same year the IRA issued an Order which forbade military action against the forces of the 26-County state. The early 1950s saw an anti-partition campaign conducted by Irish governments and supported by all parties in parliament. Its ineffectiveness in the face of the British government's indifference contributed to the renewal of the IRA.

In the early to mid 50s raids for arms were carried out by the IRA on British installations in the Six Counties and Britain. This was in preparation for an armed campaign which was conducted between 1956 and 1962. Mainly confined to border areas the campaign saw attacks on border posts and other British military installations.

After the border campaign ended the leadership of the IRA decided that support should be given to campaigns to highlight the status of second-class citizenship for nationalists in the Six Counties. The emergence of the Civil Rights Movement in the mid-1960s was to transform the political situation. Their demand for basic rights - to jobs, housing, voting - threw the Six-County state into a crisis. The peaceful demand for civil rights was met with violence from the forces of the sectarian state.

In Belfast and Derry in 1969 nationalist districts were attacked by the state police, the RUC, and by unionist mobs. The demand for defence made by nationalist communities could not be met initially by the IRA because, through the 1960s, the leadership had abandoned planning and preparation for a future armed campaign. As a military organisation the IRA had been run down.

The events of 1969 precipitated a split in the IRA. Once more the peaceful pursuit of change in the form of the Civil Rights Movement had been met with violence from the British state and so it was that the armed struggle gained predominance again as the republican strategy.

Through 1970 and 1971 the IRA gained increasing support in nationalist districts in the Six Counties and among nationalists throughout Ireland. This accelerated with the introduction of internment without trial in 1971. IRA Volunteers carried out a campaign of urban guerrilla warfare against the British army and economic bombings in Northern cities and towns.

In July 1972 republican leaders were flown to London for talks with British government ministers during a Truce between the IRA and the British army. It quickly became clear that the British government was simply using the Truce as a tactical device in its military campaign and the Truce broke down.

The conflict in the Six Counties intensified. In England the IRA caried out a bombing campaign. Another truce was called in 1974/'75 but once more there was no political will on the British part to reach a just political settlement.

In fact the most determined and consistent policy of successive British governments in the 1970s was counter-insurgency. Techniques perfected in other colonial wars were used in Ireland, including the deployment of 'counter-gangs', state-sponsored deaths squads. The entire state apparatus in the North of Ireland - the British army, the RUC, the legal system, the prisons, became, in the words of Brigadier Frank Kitson "weapons in the government's arsenal". (Kitson Low Intensity Operations.)

Despite the British military saturation of urban areas and widespread deployment in the countryside the IRA, with wide support in nationalist communities, continued to wage an effective campaign, making some parts of the country inaccessible by road to British forces. In August 1979 the IRA inflicted its greatest number of casualties on the British Army in a single incident since the 1919-21 period when it ambushed and killed 18 British soldiers at Warrenpoint, County Down.

In the 1980s Britain's counter-insurgency war manifested itself in attempts to break the IRA through the political prisoners. Having effectively recognised IRA members as prisoners of war up to 1976 the British introduced a criminalisation policy in that year. Torture in interrogations centres was the first stage on a 'conveyor belt' which passed through one-judge, no-jury courts, to long sentences and brutality within the prisons. But the refusal of IRA Volunteers to succumb to this strategy - culminating in the deaths of ten republicans on hunger-strike in 1981 - led to its failure and to a resurgance of support for republicanism.



why doesnt the "international community" want to give these people the "democracy" and "independance" like it is doing it in the middle east?
why doesnt the american democratic eagle want to save these people?
because they are criminals?
terrorists?
killers?
murderers?
blood thirsty savages?

[edit on 3-2-2005 by Souljah]



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 06:53 AM
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Could you provide a link to that huge cut and paste?
Heres a link of my own, there are always two sides to any conflict.

Clicky


A lot of names there arnt there. Each a victim of Terrorism, of course the are Provo victims as well, just not as many.
Remember, there are always TWO sides to every story.



posted on Feb, 3 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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i forgot about the source link.

here it is.


and i know there are always two sides of every medal.

and i know it is the same with this one.


i am against any killing,

but there seems to be no other way....

sad but true.



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