The 7 Thunders Speak!

Out of all of the prophecies and predictions one of the most tantalizing, at least for me was what the 7 thunders spoke.

Those of you who are familiar with prophecy know what that refers to. Those of you who are not...well to explain briefly.

John the apostle of Jesus Christ was exiled to the island of Patmos for bearing witness to the good news. Many of the other apostles were put to death, and indeed many other Christians in the 1st century for preaching. They did not get involved in warfare, practice the pagan holidays of the nations surrounding them, and did not give their allegiance to any government. Just as Jehovah's Witnesses today.

Perhaps you are familiar with the case recently held in Russia to ban them for this very reason.

Anyway while on the island of Patmos John was given a Revelation, a vision of things that must shortly take place. Most of that revelation is being fulfilled in our days.

Now included in that prophecy was the vision of 7 angels with 7 trumpets, and they each in turn started to sound them, and each of them in turn meant a plague for the earth. And while, after the first started to sound his horn, he kept sounding the note while the 2nd angel started to sound his, and so on, until the last angel the 7th. And before he began to blow into his trumpet an angel descended, in the vision.

This angel was so large that his head was easily crowned with the clouds in the sky, while one of his legs stood on the land and another on the sea. And there was also a rainbow on his head, and his face was like the sun.

And this angel cried out, and his voice was like that of the roar of a lion. And right then the 7 thunders (the voice of Jehovah God himself from heaven) spoke.

Now while John was writing down all the other things he was seeing in this vision given to him. While he was about to write down what he heard the 7 thunders speak he was forbidden to do so:

Now when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write, but I heard a voice out of heaven say: “Seal up the things the seven thunders spoke, and do not write them down.” - Revelation 10:4.

What were the words that Jehovah spoke that he had to seal up and keep hidden?

We know it has to do with the end. For the angel John saw said this:

The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the earth raised his right hand to heaven, 6 and he swore by the One who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it and the earth and the things in it and the sea and the things in it: “There will be no delay any longer. 7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret that God declared as good news to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.” - Revelation 10:5-7

So when the last trumpet is sounded everything "is indeed brought to a finish."

These are very exciting times! For when the 7th trumpet sounds many things will take place.

So exciting!

Listen, all those who have ears and hear what the spirit is saying. Please. For the day has drawn so near at hand. These things will take place.

Wow, what a time to be living it. To live to see the fulfillment of these things.

What did the 7 thunders reveal?

Look! Another vision was given to another prophet of Jehovah. This one was Daniel, and he was living in Babylon, and in his old age, under the rule of the Medes and the Persians. He was praying and as he did an angel came to him. This angel had something very very very important to reveal to Daniel. We know that because a demon prince of Perisa hindered the angel and fought with him so that he would not arrive to give the prophecy to Daniel. It fought with him 21 days without letup. And only until another angel, the Prince of all the angels, Michael the Archangel came to give assistance to this angel, did they overcome that demon prince:

But the prince of the royal realm of Persia stood in opposition to me for 21 days. But then Miʹcha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I remained there beside the kings of Persia. 14 I have come to make you understand what will befall your people in the final part of the days, because it is a vision yet for the days to come.” - Daniel 10:13, 14.

He was sent by Jehovah to tell him what was to happen in the "final part of the days." His prophecy of the kings of the north and south started in his time, and they end in our time, even into the future itself at Armageddon.

It would take half a book to explain the prophecy that follows in Daniel 11. But we are particularly interested in Daniel chapter 12.

Now this is a humble servant's understanding of this.

Daniel 12 starts with the time of the great tribulation foretold by Jesus the great prophet in Matthew 24. There Jesus states that after the good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the earth as a witness to all nations the end will come. It will start with great tribulation that has never been seen on earth and will never be seen again:

for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. - Matthew 24:21, 22.

Concerning that time Daniel is told by the angel that Michael the great prince and archangel (Jesus Christ) will stand up on behalf of his people:

“During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. - Daniel 12:1.

We know both events are the same because both Daniel and Jesus tell us about this "time of distress such has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time," and " then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again."

Keep these words close in mind, "great tribulation," and "time of distress." This is about to happen. The great tribulation is very very close at hand.

In Daniels' vision while he is by the river in Babylon, there are two angels one on each side of the stream. And above the stream there is another angel hovering over the water:

5 Then I, Daniel, looked and saw two others standing there, one on this bank of the stream and one on the other bank of the stream. 6 Then one said to the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.” - Daniel 12:5-7.

The angel proclaims a specific amount of times: a time (1) times (2) and a half a time (1/2) or 3 1/2 times. That is the time that will be appointed, and as soon as the "holy people" or the anointed ones of Jehovah are dashed to pieces, all things will come to their finish.

But in the days when the seventh angel is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret that God declared as good news to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.” - Revelation 10:7.

I ran out of room.

Both the angels said the same thing in the prophecy in Daniel 12 and Revelation 10. And notice, after giving Daniel the specific time period of 3 1/2 times, and the dashing of the holy ones to pieces he then tells him:

Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. - Daniel 12:9.

The understanding of this prophecy would be sealed by God. It became a sacred secret, that would not be understood until the time of the end. Just as the angel told Daniel to seal up the prophecy so that it was not understood. John is told the same about the voices o the seven thunders, they are sealed:

Now when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write, but I heard a voice out of heaven say: “Seal up the things the seven thunders spoke, and do not write them down.” - Revelation 10:4.

They would only be unsealed and understood at the appointed time. The time of the end.

What is going to happen then, and what do the 3 1/2 times mean?

Notice that Daniel was given the number several times in Daniel referring to the time of the end or the great tribulation just ahead:

He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely. - Daniel 7:25, 26.

This prophecy is referring to a "king" that will stand up at the end of the days in the king of the south, now being the United States and Great Britian. A President will stand up and it will be allowed him to ban the work of Jehovah's Witnesses and abuse them, and dash them to pieces for 3 1/2 times, a time, times, and half a time.

After that 3 1/2 times Jesus comes, and he sits down as judge to separate the people as sheep from goats. The sheep go into everlasting life, and the goats into everlasting destruction. And "they took away his rulership." The 144,000 anointed co-rulers with Jesus who will be raised to heavenly spirit life during the last trumpet blast will be with Jesus to destroy this system at Armageddon, including the "king of the south," the United States.

We are further told during this time of the end:

Then he said: “Here I am causing you to know what will happen in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of the end. - Daniel 8:19

And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand. Daniel 8:23-25.

At the end, a fierce king (President in the realm of the Anglo-American duel world empire) will stand up, buy not by his own power. And he will act effectively against might ones, and even dash to pieces those who make up the holy ones. And during a time of security, when people will be crying peace and security, he will bring many to ruin, just as the prophecy tells us:

Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them. - 1 Thes 5:3.

How long are the 3 1/2 times? Revelation tells us:

“Get up and measure the temple sanctuary of God and the altar and those worshipping in it. 2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months. 3 I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.” - Revelation 11:1-3.

The 3 1/2 times are 1,260 days, or 42 months, or 3 1/2 years. (A Jewish year is 360 days long. 1 time = 1 year = 360 days.)

That prophecy in Revelation tells us that God will allow the nations to turn upon Jehovah's Witnesses, ban them, and persecut them, and espeically the anointed, the remaining holy ones on earth for 3 1/2 years (or 3 1/2 days, a day for a year). Then they are all raised to heavenly spirit life with Jesus in heaven:

When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them. 8 And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodʹom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake. And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not allow their corpses to be laid in a tomb. And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth. After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them. - Revelation 11:7-13.

For those 42 months people will rejoice with a great rejoicing. All who hate Jehovah and his witnesses. In fact that is why Jesus said that during that great tribulation, if those days were not cut short, even his chosen ones, the anointed, the remaining of the 144,000 on earth, would all be destroyed:

In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. - Matthew 24:22.

During that "great tribulation" God is going to have earth's rulers unite, turn upon and destroy false religion. All religion on earth will be exposed as false, rotten, and utterly destroyed. It will be a most fearful time. That time period, it seems then, will last 3 1/2 years.

But Jesus told us, those days will be cut short. What will happen then?

Will the seven thunders are opening and you are seeing into these marvelous things. The angel is not done with Daniel. He concludes the prophecy this way:

Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days! - Daniel 12:9-12.

No one acting wickedly will understand this. But the ones having insight will understand. What is revealed?

....

The "great tribulation" during which all religion earth-wide is destroyed, and a ban is placed also upon Jehovah's servants who witness about his name. This witness work they perform to Jehovah God is the "constant feature". The thing causing desolation is the United Nations.

After the tribulation is cut short, 30 days will pass. So that time lasts 1,260 days. And the angel then tells us:  “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days." (v11).

What will happen on the 1,290th day?

It appears that the seventh angel will finally sound its trumpet:

The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.” - Revelation 11:15.

30 days after the end of the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation the foretold sign of the son of man will appear in heaven.

Jesus Christ will arrive in his kingdom glory! And the last trumpet will sound. Along with his arrival supernatural signs and portents will be revealed from heaven heralding Christ's return!!!!!!! And all mankind will KNOW:

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity. - Matthew 24:29-31.

The earth's "sun and moon and stars will fall from heaven.' Its luminaries, their world rulers, their scientists, all those whom they vainly look up to will simply fade into nothingness. And the trumpet blast sounds and Jesus sends his angels to gather his "chosen" the anointed, 144,00 and resurrects them to heavenly spirit life, to live as kings and priests with him forever and ever:

51 Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed. - 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52).

Then will be fulfilled the words the angel gave the prophet Daniel:

“And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. - Daniel 12:3.

Just as Jesus revealed in his illustration of God's anointed who will then be raised to heaven with him:

At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen. - Matthew 13:43.

Then will be fulfilled the words of the 24 elders in heaven who shout with great jubilation:

We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the one who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” - Revelation 11:17, 18.

Finally that leads us to the last days in Daniel's prophecy:

“Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days! - Daniel 12:12.

The great tribulation lasts 1,260 days. Those who arrive at the 1,290 days (30 days later) will see the sign of the son of man in the heaven, and supernatrual signs and portents in the heavens, heralding the return of Christ to judge mankind, separate them, the sheep from the goats as he judges them for either life or death. The sounding of the last trumpet, the resurrection of the holy ones, the anointed, the chosen 144,000 anointed Christian congregation.

Then there is a period of 45 days, that leads to the 1,335 days! During that time Satan will send forth to gather all mankind together, all the kings of the earth, every one of them to battle against Jehovah:

They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty. 15 “Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one who stays awake and keeps his outer garments, so that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.” 16 And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon. - Revelation 16:14-16.

Happy are all they that listen to what the seven thunders speak! And may all who have ears listen to what the spirit says!

"Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’” - Revelation 3:27

And to conclude with the very last verses of the Revelation to John, and the entire Scriptures themselves:

“He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” [May] the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ [be] with the holy ones. - Revelation 22:20, 21.

Sure, But couldn't predict Trump to win

originally posted by: mikell
Sure, But couldn't predict Trump to win

Daniel 11 gives a very detailed succession of world rulers down into our time. God could name them all, by name if he chose to in prophecy. Just as he named Cyrus 200 years before Cyrus was born.

“He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’”

With my 10% ? or

Id this some kind of veiled threat ?

This is not mine but I thought very appropriate for the subject:

So how many times have you Jehovah witnesses predicted the end of the world and it failed

Try JWfacts.com, it lists all their failed prophecies, now another one to add to the list...

Well done, keeping the great tradition up?

Oops, run out of room, this is the sixth time the world has met its demise, well not yet but yours seems to be number six.
Yours though I guess not officially sanctioned by JW org as opposed to the last five

a reply to: XeloE
I did my own thread on the 7 Thunders and offered my own translation of the dialogue;

Angel to thunders; "What do you think? Shall we go ahead?"
Thunders to angel; "Yes, the time has come. You must [details redacted]"
Angel to world; "Attention, please! With effect from the sounding of the next trumpet, the kingdoms of this world are going to be wound up".
Heaven to John; "Meanwhile, you go and give them a final warning".

If we are not told what they say to each other, that must be because the fact that they speak to each other is more important to us than the exact content.

Oops, silly me, seems to be many many more than six, I can't be bothered counting them all

The funny thing about superstitions is everything you experience in your life is evidence to support your beliefs. It's amazing how that works!

a reply to: DISRAELI

Nice comment.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: XeloE
I did my own thread on the 7 Thunders and offered my own translation of the dialogue;

Angel to thunders; "What do you think? Shall we go ahead?"
Thunders to angel; "Yes, the time has come. You must [details redacted]"
Angel to world; "Attention, please! With effect from the sounding of the next trumpet, the kingdoms of this world are going to be wound up".
Heaven to John; "Meanwhile, you go and give them a final warning".

If we are not told what they say to each other, that must be because the fact that they speak to each other is more important to us than the exact content.

So that leads to the obvious question
Why is, they speaking to each other so important?

a reply to: Raggedyman
Quoting again from my old thread in the Revelation series;

Seven thunders answer him, but John isn't allowed to write down what they say.
Which seems very strange.
Not because of the secrecy (we expect God to have secrets), but because it prompts the question;
Why is John hearing these words, in the first place, if he's not allowed to report them?
There must be something we're intended to learn from the fact that these thunders have spoken, independent of the actual content.
"Seven" is the number which points us towards God, so the voice of seven thunders would have to be God's voice, the expression of God's will.
The most obvious possibility is that he's expressing his will for judgement (and we have no "need to know" about the details).

a reply to: XeloE

Doubtful John the Apostle was the same John of Patmos...making your well written threading...false.

en.wikipedia.org...

"The assumption that the apostle John was also author of the Book of Revelation is now widely rejected in modern critical scholarship. The early Christian writer Papias appeared in his writings to distinguish between John the Evangelist and John the Elder, and many biblical scholars now contend that the latter was the author of Revelation". *

*(Meaning John the Elder was)

MS
APOSTATE

Just wondering, do you get to claim your hours spent on ATS on your Jehovah Time Card? Are you a regular publisher or Pioneer?

Really folks, they keep track of the hours spent and then create a time card which is sent to the society to prove they put in at least 10 hrs a month preaching their version of the Gospel to stay an active JW. Matt. 6:4 Give your gifts in private, and your Father, who sees everything, will reward you.

Deut 18:22 If the prophet speaks in the LORD's name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the LORD did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.

Their failed prophecies proves this is not a Religion that speaks for God.

a reply to: misskat1

I dont wish to down anyone's religion, but to respond with you...I had a hospital room-mate friend whom no matter what I'd say in regards to anything...would go back to get advice on how to counteract whatever I was saying.

Everything. Everytime. It was sad to see one so controlled. In the end? I had to have him physically removed and banned from my workplace.

God Bless him and everyone, anyway. Why? Because its the right thing...

Blessings! MS

The Bible says that the secret thing belong to God. The seven thunders are secret.

It also says that which is revealed belongs to us forever.

Don't bother wasting you time trying to GUESS what they said it is secret and it belongs to God and him alone.

Jah hova : My god is destruction

Jah Zues: My god is Zues

Op, religion is created by the Whore... Yahweh hates religion, Yehoshuah didn't preach it.

The 144,000... Not humans. Angels that didn't "mate"...

I'll give you a hint. Elect-ricity. A 12v battery charges at 14.4v

Im sorry all you have to read from is the perverted mistranslated Satanist controlled jokes-on-you child story book version of reality. But its time to grow up at least a bit. Not that any native English speaker properly understands the concept of growth...