Greatest genocide on earth(It happened in America)

Boogyman--- you make a good point. But I disagree here.

The aboriginal americans of this country where given two options abandon your culture and be "assimilated" or be killed. You people dont consider the mass organized slaughter of the buffalo (the main food source of the plains indians) an act of systematic destruction with the goal of racial extermination? You people dont consider the abduction and forced attendance of Indian children to schools that taught them their "place" in society and obliterated all trace of cultural identity a systematic act of cultural extermination?

We were fighting a war. War gets ugly in order to win. Unfortunatly, the leaders of the day were a rough stock of people, and ignorant. A war was inevitible. Compare the Indian way of life to ours. As the population grew something would have to give. So yes, it was assimilate, or resist. I do feel though, that if they would have resisted less, and ACCEPTED defeat, they would have fared much better. Instead, being an inspired people, they fought, bravely, till the death. Things could have been done better on both sides. No arguement there. Survival of the fittest is the law.

What really gets my goat is when people say that because Indians are the "losers" of history they shouldnt complain. Fine just as long as you modern "losers" of the cultural war stop complaining about the dillution of the "true culture" of America. Stop complaining about "christian persecution" "abortion on demand" "our vulnerable border" and "the assault on marriage". Why? Because despite all you say about the "moral majority" if there wasn't an overwhelming demand for these things they would not exist, your losing the cultural war and what you did in the past is irelevant.

Well, really why should they complain? Why shouldnt they take advantage of all that is made available to them. I did one google search on "benefits for native americans" and got 712,494 results back.

As far as your babble about culture war, all I can say is "huh?!" Not only does it do NOTHING to your arguement, its entirely incorrect. First of all, what is there an overwhelming demand for? "Things" Could you possibly be any more vague? Also, just because you see things on tv does mean the overwhelming majority of this country agrees with you. If that was the case, John Kerry would have won. Everyone I knew thought he was going to win. Why? Because they are 21-30 yrs old. They fit the demographic. All tv they watch is loaded with pro-kerry and anti bush crap. Now, go watch and hour of "Lifetime" and see how many tampon and douche commercials there are in an hour, then do the same thing for an hour on ESPN and compare the difference. The other major thing to remember, is even if you think you matter, you dont. Its the machine controling things, and it wont change.

Any rate, please clear up, what you mean by "things" and please explain how we are losing the "war", and what "war is it, exactly..BTW thank you for forgiving us, as "what we did in the past is irrelevant"....

All these people want is the due recognition of the crimes committed against them and what they are owed legally by treaty. Is that too much to ask? Aparently it is to some people....

There are plenty of indians out there taking FULL advantages of ALL the programs out there (what was it? 712,000?). The ones who dont have no one other than themselves to blame. For such a small group of people, I would think they would look out for each other and help them. I mean, 712,000 pages. Thats alot. They've had their recognition. They have their benefits. Its up to them.

"God helps them, who help themselves"....

Natives did not have Technology???

ok, they did not have the gun...... but is that all advancement has come to.

And on the Idea of natives comming from space....maybe they did.



www.crystalinks.com...
www.nascaperu.com...

heard of the nazca drawing, those drawing can be seen from the sky. A premitive tribe could make such a drawing, I don't think so.

And the Hopi's are waiting to go back

The Hopi Indian UFOs

Hopi Indian legends tell of a sure certainty in the future that the tribe's faithful will be lifted to other planets on the Day of Purification. And they watch and wait for the UFO's that will take them there.

www.crystalinks.com...





[edit on 11-2-2005 by JADESTONE]

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
Folks...I've just got a question...

Just how is the current population of the US responsible for the actions of what happened a couple of hundred years ago ???

I mean don't get me wrong, these things did happen, but how can the current population be held responsible ?

And if they can't...why discuss it ?

It sounds like more racial bashing to me...

ask the same as german....

... and get to prison

of all atrocities the native american fiasco, was one of the worst, as a black man , speaking on behalf of all oppressed ppl on this planet. besides the mid atlantic slave trade where almost or roughly 100 million plus africans died. as well as the 6 million jews who were slaughtered in the holocaust. And the ongoing slaughter of the Iraquis. i think u all have to realize it's a God damn white man's world. I think religion and christianity as perpetrated by the white man.is responsible for this.

Originally posted by crusader
i think u all have to realize it's a God damn white man's world. I think religion and christianity as perpetrated by the white man.is responsible for this.

Which Christian White man was responsable for

The rape of Nanjing?
The slaughter in Maoist China?
The slaughter in Cambodia?
The Genocide in Rowanda?
The million+ dead in the Iran/Iraq war?
The genocide in Sudan?
The MODERN day slave trade in Sudan and a few other African and Muslim nations?

I could keep going but does it only count if mean old whitey is doing it?

Amuk,

Great summation of why this just a huge ration of BS. Poster after poster has pointed out the fallacies of jadestone's argument, but it is like talking to a stone.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Amuk,

Great summation of why this just a huge ration of BS. Poster after poster has pointed out the fallacies of jadestone's argument, but it is like talking to a stone.

Jadestone,

Great summation of why America is stolen land. Poster after poster has pointed out the fallacies of counterarguments, but it is like talking to a stone.

And why is this Above Top Secret? Area 51 is Western Shoshone Indian Land. We own it. We know what's in there.

Thank God for Karma.

Originally posted by Chakotay
Area 51 is Western Shoshone Indian Land. We own it. We know what's in there.

Then show us by walking in there and going where you wish.

Just tell the guards you own it I am sure they will stand aside.

I have the utmost respect for the fighting prowness of the native Americans and for them as a people but every piece of land people are standing on was taken from someone else its the way of the world.

[edit on 11-2-2005 by Amuk]

posted by spliff4020

So yes, it was assimilate, or resist.

I do not believe they were really given the chance to assimilate. The indian culture was to different for them to integrate into our society. The majority of Americans back then looked down on them and would never accept them. The only way the government could deal with the Indians was to isolate them on a reservation or kill them.

Yeah I did kind of go off on a rant there...

In my defense though I was a tad sleep deprived (and a little drunk) so I overreacted and wasnt very clear in what I was getting at. You should probably just ignore that part of the post. What I was getting at was that I hate how people complain about illegal immigration yet have a completely hypocritical view on the westward expansion of our country but after multiple revisions the original meaning was lost in a general meandering blast at reactionary politics in general.

My apologies to all...

But seriously though there is no reason we can't call a spade a spade and admit
that this black stain on our history was an act of genocide that should not be ignored for the sake of expediency. Yes both sides admittedly were brutal but I have to sympathize with the Indians more then the settlers. I feel the Indians were within their rights in their reactions toward the foreign incursion. This after all was war, and the Indians were in the right. I just dont see the harm in an official apology. Imagine if Germany had never apologized for the Holocaust.

Originally posted by boogyman
I was a tad sleep deprived (and a little drunk)

Ummm, this is off topic but, I have never understood why someone drinks, ot gets drunk, and then gets on an internet bulletin board.....I have seen this a lot on boards and just don't get it

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by boogyman
I was a tad sleep deprived (and a little drunk)

Ummm, this is off topic but, I have never understood why someone drinks, ot gets drunk, and then gets on an internet bulletin board.....I have seen this a lot on boards and just don't get it

Hey if theres nothing interesting on a good shot can make anything funny

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by Chakotay
Area 51 is Western Shoshone Indian Land. We own it. We know what's in there.

Then show us by walking in there and going where you wish.

Just tell the guards you own it I am sure they will stand aside.

Many of us are/were the guards, Amuk. You could all learn a lot by listening to us.

Nevada is Shoshone ancestral territory. Everything that has ever happened in there has had Indian eyes watching.

Hi everyone. I am new to this thread, but have just sped through the first few pages.

Off the bat, germ warfare only became a word in the 20th century. But that doesn't mean the idea started then. Come on, there has been talk of witches making someone sick, and King's being poisoned since ye olden days.

With the Indians, people need to understand, it was not just 'proximity' with the White Man that was forced on Indians. They were also exposed to..... And this is a big one....

European Food.

Refined sugar. What happened in Europe when sugar was first being refined and introduced to the public? The Black Plague.

Its affects on the immune system are well documented, and quite dramatic.

Can you prove they did it on purpose? No. Was there a guy by the name of Malthus who would have no qualms about doing this in the name of God?Yep, and it was his theories that most interested royalty (those planning colonization) .

Really, the British Crown is as responsible as anything to do with the USA, though.

Here is a revealing anagram about "The USA"="hAte US"

WE need to change it !

In an apparent reference to the US threat to boycott the conference should slavery and reparations be discussed, Zuma stressed that no topics should be banned from the conference agenda.
He said: "It is important... that we are not made to feel guilty for raising issues which have caused pain to other people in the world."

news.bbc.co.uk...

African leaders are demanding an apology and some form of compensation ever more loudly as the US and some European countries step up pressure on Germany to reimburse Nazi victims for their suffering.

Britain, France, Germany - and the US again - will have nothing of it.

The European countries are wary of acquiring any financial obligations to remedy past wrongs.

For its part, Washington says it will be willing to consider a collective expression of regret - but no more.

BBC correspondent Alex van Wel says delegates in Geneva will have some reason to feel sceptical over their chances of finding consensus on these issues.

news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 16-2-2005 by JADESTONE]

Originally posted by Souljah
yep,
this is america.
founded by blood and guts.
indian blood and guts.
and then black mans blood and sweat.
and the white man just makes more money out of it!

just kill them all,
take their land
and go there for vacation.

yes since every white man was #ing rich back then

Originally posted by Chakotay

Many of us are/were the guards, Amuk. You could all learn a lot by listening to us.

Nevada is Shoshone ancestral territory. Everything that has ever happened in there has had Indian eyes watching.

getting pretty deep in here, mind the store while I go out and rent a bulldozer

its funny how people think, or maybe not think.....
lets just say for sake of argument..the government will give back all land back to indians and give blacks 40 acres of land plus mule.
first of all whos entiteled to it is first question?
Is 100% indian gonna be first or does a .05% part indian get it first.
same with the blacks
now do the arithmatic...... I can surely see that theres just not enough land in the world for this to happen.What happens when the 100 % of indian gets less valued land as opposed to the .05 does,cuz there is diffently a difference, for instance, a person can have land that is flat or one can have their land on sheer cliffs which is basically worthless.

plus lets just say im black and the government says that they need to pay back indians for all atrocities made to them. now ive work hard and bought this land to build a house on but the gov. needs to pay back ind.s so we are gonna buy your land at a rock bottom price that the market bears. you will not have any choice in the matter. oh this has and does happen to anyone regardless what they are. are you gonna just say, oh ok , or are u gonna bitch and complain that you are being robbed. YOU take government to court to fight them and Maybe you posted on this site that you were in favor for the indians before all you found out the gov. was gonna take your land. Now how willing are you gonna be to say that its the right thing to do,give all land back to indians?

most people i see are willing to get on band wagon as long as it doesnt effect them.

for the record im dutch german englsh..who do i fault first for slaughter of my heritage?
ive applied for an $85,000 business loan from sba now they made me put up $185,000 collateral and they basically said if you were vietnamese, mexican,chinese or other immigrent status we would give you the money.as long as you were not white,middle class.

come on people our government has persecuted evey type of person...irish,chinese,black,red,.....list goes on.
im tired of people whining and bitching about how they are owed something just for being born.
and one more point what happens if my ancestors helped the black people ,foght and died in civil war for them ,do i recieve any money for their actions?

Originally posted by sixftundrgrd
its funny how people think, or maybe not think.....
lets just say for sake of argument..the government will give back all land back to indians and give blacks 40 acres of land plus mule.
first of all whos entiteled to it is first question?
Is 100% indian gonna be first or does a .05% part indian get it first.
same with the blacks
now do the arithmatic...... I can surely see that theres just not enough land in the world for this to happen.What happens when the 100 % of indian gets less valued land as opposed to the .05 does,cuz there is diffently a difference, for instance, a person can have land that is flat or one can have their land on sheer cliffs which is basically worthless.

plus lets just say im black and the government says that they need to pay back indians for all atrocities made to them. now ive work hard and bought this land to build a house on but the gov. needs to pay back ind.s so we are gonna buy your land at a rock bottom price that the market bears. you will not have any choice in the matter. oh this has and does happen to anyone regardless what they are. are you gonna just say, oh ok , or are u gonna bitch and complain that you are being robbed. YOU take government to court to fight them and Maybe you posted on this site that you were in favor for the indians before all you found out the gov. was gonna take your land. Now how willing are you gonna be to say that its the right thing to do,give all land back to indians?

most people i see are willing to get on band wagon as long as it doesnt effect them.

for the record im dutch german englsh..who do i fault first for slaughter of my heritage?
ive applied for an $85,000 business loan from sba now they made me put up $185,000 collateral and they basically said if you were vietnamese, mexican,chinese or other immigrent status we would give you the money.as long as you were not white,middle class.

come on people our government has persecuted evey type of person...irish,chinese,black,red,.....list goes on.
im tired of people whining and bitching about how they are owed something just for being born.
and one more point what happens if my ancestors helped the black people ,foght and died in civil war for them ,do i recieve any money for their actions?

Giving back Land is out of Question. As for Individual compesation ,it is also out of question.
But I belive an Official Apology is very much needed.