Greatest genocide on earth(It happened in America)

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Mr Nice has a point here...it's called Social Darwinism. What do you expect when you pit a near-industrial civilization against neolithic savages?

Savages? The Australian Aboriginals civilization has been around for 40 000 years and the American Indians lived for many year in harmony with the land. How can you call them savages when it was Europeans that all but wiped them out?

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Trent]

Originally posted by Trent


"I think any country giving their native peoples all their lands back is a bit extreme, especially after many others have been calling it home for years."

If they stole it then its not theyre home. Theyre living on stolen land. Just like all Americans

Savages was the term of the day applied to the Indians since they lived a uncivilized tribal life.

Ah ok fair enough, sorry for jumping to conclusions.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Trent]

History is history and survival of the fittest has thus ruled. Tomorrow the bad bad white man could be whiped out or dominated by someone else and that then would be the history. The peace loving indians also fought among themselves for the dominance of the lands and hunting territory so were they bad also or is that just the way it was in those times. The same is true with slavery,many of the slaves brought to this land were sold to the slave traders by either their own families or tribes or other black tribes. You can try to deny these facts but it is still going on today in Africa and many other countries the only diffrence is in some places it is called indentured servitude.

factfinder is right about that! In fact all slaves AFAIK were sold to traders by African tribes who captured slaves in wars with other tribes. The current PC view pushed by the blacks is of whites hunting them down themselves and taking them from their peaceful lives in Africa.

Slavery is still practiced in some parts of Africa by tribes enslaving members of other tribes.

Originally posted by MrNice
Perhaps another look at Darwinism is in order here. 100 Million Indians and yet so technologically backwards that a few thousand invaders where able to wipe out 80-90% of their population.

That is the most bigoted, ignorant statement I have ever heard. The Invaders who came here were so technologically backwards that they did not know how to grow enough food to survive (Jamestown), sailed wooden ships on the wind, made light with candles, and had just come out of a thousand years of darkness to redicover that the world was spherical. The one and only technology the Invaders possessed that could be considered technologically advanced was gunsmithing- and even there, I submit to you that the Invaders were tactically at a disadvantage to the Natives: the muzzle-loading guns of the Invaders could fire one round per minute with relative accuracy if the weather was dry. In wet conditions (mornings), misfires increased. In every firefight where equal numbers of Natives and Invaders were opposed, the Invaders were cut down in a continuous rain of arrows by the Natives defending their homeland. It was Invader-borne disease that decimated the Natives, the very same Natives that taught the Invaders to grow corn, beans and squash. It was the Natives that nursed the Invaders through the first winters of starvation; and it was the Natives who were decimated when their newfound Invader 'friends' turned on them and began to kill.

We were killed because we were kind; and clean. And felt sorry for you.

The advanced technology these Invaders posess today is a heritage of the Natives they butchered.

Darwinism is behind the Invaders now, in the form of Earth changes, space rocks and Islam. Is it backwards to live peacefully, in your own land, without spewing pollution into everything?

Join your Native Brothers now, to save the Earth, before it is too late.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Chakotay]

Originally posted by jlc163
the Iriquois nations were stuck between the French and English settlers. The French and english were always fighting. the French paid at least one of the Iriquois nations to scalp whites. the Iriquois, as a group, practiced coup, basicially hitting you over the head with a stick....no where near as abd as scalping. Eventually, the Iriquois nation split and sided with either England or France. Those of the Iriquois who helped the French were the ones that George Washington fought beofre this country was founded. Those he fought afterwards were the ones that were still England's allies. You choose sides in a war that's not even your own, you die, simple enough. As a tie in with what happened to the Indians there, my white ancestors were kicked out of Acadia and some of them settled here, where they often died for lack of proper treatment, some of it VERY intentional... This was not the Indians gettign a bad deal from us, it was a bunch of fools of multiple nationalities getting tied up in each other's mess. After this, it started to become more of a getting rid of the Indians because the scalping was VERY much remembered, and was not know, at that time, to be somethign that the French started. read some of Laura Ingalss Wilder's stories, a lot of people believed that the only good Indian was a dead indian, INCLUDING Laura's mother. Later on, the father becomes friends with half-indian man who works for the railroad, and the mother had to learn to accept him. (This was back beofr eaffirmative action, lol...people did straiten out ther prejudices with little outisde help, lol...)

Meh...the superioity complex the whites had was sometimes a fault of religion, sometimes a fault of some evolutionist's beliefs....."on the origin of species by means of natural selection, or the PRESERVATION OF FAVORED RACES IN THE STRUGGLE OF LIFE" I dont' see how that statement can't be seen as racist, lol...because it's about favoring one race over another based on supeority, lol...which is racism.

Anyway, the atrocities that the Indians faced, so did my French ancestors. My great grandmother can remember beign told not to speak French at school, under fear of punishment. she remembers havign her lat name aglicised from Adam to Adams. Her grandparents watched blacks slaves being treated better than they were. The state of Lousisana STILL doesn't allow us to teach our children our culture--and they won't fund it at all, really. If we take French at achool, it's France french, and we can't talk to our Mammans and Parenes with that. The word used in my local area for teacher means the woman who;s in charge of the Brothel in French. We have no need to learn France French. I can't go down the bayou and talk to my own people. We have French Indians too...makes for even more confusion. It's never been that I want aide (when's the last time anyone but a shrimper in Southern Lousisana has ever asked for major funding, lol), I just want my way of life, and I'm white, for christ sake. (And you think Indians drink?!?) It's never been about race. It's been about several stupid decisions made by both governments and by the people who allowed themselves to be subjected to this.

Much of what we and the Indians went through had little to do with who we were, but the fact that we didn't conform to the norm, or waht the country wanted as a norm at the time. The Indians got a bit more of it because their lands were considered non US territory. English was forced down the throats of children because we want to be an English speaking nation, though we have never had an official language declared, EVER, lol...

but in the end, is this genocide? no, I can't see it as that.

Mon Francais n'est pas good.Votre poteau était parfait . tout le monde souffre dans une guerre.
ce qu'elles ont fait au Francais était bad.

pardon if my french is worse than I think,

Originally posted by Chakotay
The Invaders who came here were so technologically backwards that they did not know how to grow enough food to survive (Jamestown), sailed wooden ships on the wind, made light with candles, and had just come out of a thousand years of darkness to redicover that the world was spherical.

The above is a good example of spreading wrong information.

Not of of them died from starvation; many died from malaria.

You also left out the fact that they had arrived to late in the season to plant crops, yet you claim they did not know how to grow any! If that were the case how on earth did they manage to arrive in this country at ages over 20 years? Using your own logic that they could not survive for one year they would have been dead years before they arrived.

The advanced technology these Invaders posess today is a heritage of the Natives they butchered.

Just what kind of technology did indians give to the white man that they already did not have?

The Whiteman already had big wooden ships with sails. They also had tools made of iron, looms that could make material the list goes on and on you get my point.

As for attacking and killing some indians; yes some did; however in many cases it was only after they were attacked first by Indians.







[edit on 4-2-2005 by Chakotay]

Lol! More advanced? They didnt evan have wheels!

Well, I see this is a post thtat revolves around crying of a 200 yr old glass of spilled milk. Here, this should solve everything....

On behalf of all European settlers, "We are Sorry bout that...wont happen again..our bad.."

There, now put it behind you (this should easy, as YOU were never attacked or kicked off any land) Now leap into the 21st century and move on.

Wow. I had always known that the destruction of the American Indian was large but did not no the numbers. It is truly sad to see what humans will do to each other to gain control and power. Remember that the men and woman that arrived in the America's were from other countries. It makes you wonder about our great melting pot and whether the pot was just plain dirty.

Originally posted by shots

Not of of them died from starvation; many died from malaria.

Yeah, Shots, that's why Americans celebrate Thanksgiving. To thank God for surviving Malaria. Not. It is to thank God for the turkey, pumpkins, corn, beans, and cranberries that we Natives gave to them and taught them how to plant to get through an American winter.

You also left out the fact that they had arrived to late in the season to plant crops, yet you claim they did not know how to grow any!

Very, very intelligent of them to plan ahead like true paragons of wisdom. And I do not claim they did not know how to grow crops adapted to American soils and climate. I know they did not. There is a difference.

The advanced technology these Invaders posess today is a heritage of the Natives they butchered.

Just what kind of technology did indians give to the white man that they already did not have?

A nutritionally balanced diet based on food crops genetically altered to thrive in local soils and microclimates. Fertilization. Irrigation. Knowledge of semiconductors and atmospheric/exoastmospheric flight through tribal legends. Participatory democracy. Most of the medicines still in use today. Dentistry.

Oh, and urban planning (as in not building your city in an infested swamp).

As for attacking and killing some indians; yes some did; however in many cases it was only after they were attacked first by Indians.

Not attacked. Repulsed. When someone invades your home uninvited it is called the crime of trespassing and you retain the right of self-defense. You know that expropriation of territory is against international law.

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Chakotay]

Originally posted by Chakotay


A nutritionally balanced diet based on food crops genetically altered to thrive in local soils and microclimates. Fertilization. Irrigation. Knowledge of semiconductors and atmospheric/exoastmospheric flight through tribal legends. Participatory democracy. Most of the medicines still in use today. Dentistry.

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Chakotay]

from your link which had to have been written by a NA

The First European immigrants did not hack their way through an impenetrable wilderness. They followed a well laid-out transportation system of trading paths, navigable rivers, and in some cases actual paved roads, traveled for centuries by Native Americans.

Paved roads give me a break indians did not have wheels let alone horses now you come of with paved roads and think someone will believe that tripe.

You go Chakotay. ...Amazing how many people think 'might makes right' - and don't know Darwin was a bigot protecting his class... Not to mention wrong.



.

Maybe one day the white man can get payback from the white man for screwing them over... kind of like the rodney king's of the caucasian world... and we can have our own reservations and make up our own rules and the such so that we don't have to listen or abide either...

Originally posted by shots

Paved roads give me a break indians did not have wheels let alone horses now you come of with paved roads and think someone will believe that tripe.

Shots, frauds will be exposed:

Paved roads here and here and here, wheels here and here and here. Precolumbian horses here.

As I have said before elsewhere: we knew of wheels. Our religion forbids their use except for toys. The Original Instructions our Ancestors left us tell us wheels are for toys. Not for humans to use for general transport.

I should have also noted Utilization of Solar Energy In Architecture under technology. Apartment houses. Heh. Somebody make me stop before I tell him where the starships are buried

[edit on 8-2-2005 by Chakotay]

Chakotay



As we all know science has stated that all man orignated in Africa or if you prefer to believe in the creationist theory all man still originated in the same general area, therefore each and every male or female came from the very same source. That is of course assuming you are not going to insist that Aliens brought NAs to earth.

With that you can rant and rave all you want.

Do get back to me when you can prove that NAs were the first on the soil of the Americas. Keep in mind that is yet to be determined. For all we know they might descover bones that predate the claims of NAs in the Americas by a caucacion man, what will you say then?

I for one will not listen to anymore of your tripe and I am part NA.

Originally posted by shots
I am part NA.

Which part? I dare not guess. Either you are, or you are not. If I were you, I would apologize for reading with my blindspot. The original post in this thread pointed out that the greatest genocide in history was perpetrated upon Native Americans by invaders. That contention was supported by historical facts. If you respect your Ancestors, Shots, then sit by the fire and listen.

What a truly depressing thread....

Main Entry: geno·cide
Pronunciation: 'je-n&-"sId
Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

The aboriginal americans of this country where given two options abandon your culture and be "assimilated" or be killed. You people dont consider the mass organized slaughter of the buffalo (the main food source of the plains indians) an act of systematic destruction with the goal of racial extermination? You people dont consider the abduction and forced attendance of Indian children to schools that taught them their "place" in society and obliterated all trace of cultural identity a systematic act of cultural extermination?

What really gets my goat is when people say that because Indians are the "losers" of history they shouldnt complain. Fine just as long as you modern "losers" of the cultural war stop complaining about the dillution of the "true culture" of America. Stop complaining about "christian persecution" "abortion on demand" "our vulnerable border" and "the assault on marriage". Why? Because despite all you say about the "moral majority" if there wasn't an overwhelming demand for these things they would not exist, your losing the cultural war and what you did in the past is irelevant.

All these people want is the due recognition of the crimes committed against them and what they are owed legally by treaty. Is that too much to ask? Aparently it is to some people....