Greatest genocide on earth(It happened in America)

Many people are unaware of these things. I am very glad you reconized this. Many deaths of the indians were of disease. But the unneccesary deaths are those of the battles between us and the indians.

so, instead of freeing Tibet, let's look closer at home by first free Native Americans and give all their lands back. I believe Malcom X once said that " All Whites are Evil" I think there is a truth in that.

KENSHIRO---->

Whos at fault for them not receiving their "entitlements"? HMMM? THEM!! Dont you get it? The blacks have plenty of programs made available to them and they use them frequently. The same could be said for your "people". Calling yourself full-blooded Indian is also rediculous. Dont you also have German in you? Were you not born in AMERICA ?!?!?!? Get off your high horse (no pun intended) and get real. You dont receive any benefits, because your NOT AN INDIAN,,,DUH !!

In order to "fit In", in order to "be accepted" in order to be treated as an equal in your world. Do I want this? No, but it a fact of life.

I am considered a full blood even though my great +++ grandfather was greman. I fit into world of the "whitey" using your terms due to this. Other than high cheekbones and other anatomical differences that are genetic to my family, I look like a European.

So why then dont you "fit in"? Because you CHOOSE to stand out and delcare yourself oppresed people. Christ....Face it, your an AMERICAN, no different than anyone else. Call yourself what you like, but the day the german entered your collective DNA you stopped being a full blooded indian.

Not only are Indians accepted, they are treated as special. Heres alist of all the poor neglected "tribes" that we still let feed from the coffers:


If these people are to lazy to take advantage of what is laid out before them, to bad. If you dont qualify, to bad. I think its a shame, that in a time, where we are LANDING ROVERS ON MARS, we still have try and kiss the boo-boos of some over sensitive people.

[ This is where a list of some 300+ tribes eligible for governmental help was. At the request of a Mod, its been deleted. ] I shall make a new post listing all the help for these poor, oppresed people.

Such statements demonstrate just how desperately you do need to be educated. We are't forced to live on the reservations just like the people who live in the projects or in Harlem are not forced to live there either. They also can move anywhere Right? Hmm.... fromn everything that you have said makes it clear that you certainly think so. I am sure that the people that live in those areas would be really happy knowing this info.

Well, yes....they are free to leave. Because they choose not to work or educate themselves in order to achieve more in life is hardly my problem. I have no problem with the government throwin em hand outs, but where does it stop. When does PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY come into affect? An alderwoman from Chicago (Dorothy Tillman) made this quote to the Chicago city council, regarding slave reperations. "Keep your 40 acres and a mule, WE WANT A LEXUS !!".. Speaks volumes, does it not?

So, please, dry your eyes. Perhaps it will help you to clearly see that we now live in 2005, and its time to move on. EVERYONE WHO HASNT BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK, KNOWS THE INDIANS GOT SCREWED. Get off the whole " Poor us" thing. Besides, your not even full blooded. God, why is wrong to be a PROUD AMERICAN. If you and yours are so offended by what happened, then move to a reservation, and live there. Stop the preaching to us, about things we have had no control over. Its your life. Make of it, what you will..........

[edit on 4-2-2005 by spliff4020]

[edit on 4-2-2005 by spliff4020]

RedHare:

" All Whites are Evil" I think there is a truth in that.

Now you don't go believing each and everything you read or hear, k?
Your racial overtones are quite unnecessary.
The problem with your whole mention is this: ALL.

Excuse as I digress here, but would that be the same as:
ALL ravens are black.
A panther is not a raven.
Therefore, a panther is not black?





seekerof

Originally posted by RedHare
so, instead of freeing Tibet, let's look closer at home by first free Native Americans and give all their lands back. I believe Malcom X once said that " All Whites are Evil" I think there is a truth in that.

I think any country giving their native peoples all their lands back is a bit extreme, especially after many others have been calling it home for years. What would be good is if we paid some sort of reperations for those that were effected by changes cased by european settlement. I think we do this already but the funds are either not enough or have not been spent well. The Aboriginal people aren't as well off as non-Aboriginal Australians (well some are but statistics show most are not), this can't be by chance and we really need to spend both time and money figuring out why this is and fixing it. It's hard to climb up the ladder if you start at the bottom rung, which is often the hand they have been delt because of our past actions. Also your right about white people being evil but it's isn't the fact that they are white that makes them evil, it's the fact that they are people. I think you will find it is people that are evil, not skin colors. There are good people too it's just that many other the years have let power and money currupt them.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Trent]

RedHare,
The NA's are not asking for all the lands to be given back nor are they asking to be freed.What the NA's are and have been asking for is the lands given to them via treaty agreements actually be given back to them. The example that I gave earlier, The BIA actually gave away 1.6 million acres of NA land to developers.
I am not saying the White's nor anyone else is evil. In fact in my postings, I have been careful to refer to non native americans as europeans.
What JADESTONE is presenting is a theory that is based off of historical facts. There is some gray areas but it still has some validity. As I mentioned before though, more NA's died from the diseases that the Europeans brought over than those actually killed during the various battles.

Oh and i know this thread was started about American Indians but the plight of indigenous people seems to have similarities in any of the lands colonised by Europeans. Out of all the ones i know of New Zealand is probably one of the best in terms of how it's indigenous people were treated and Australia would be among the worst. In all cases of British or European colonies there is many similarities it seems.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Trent]

kenshiro, cool it with your racist "NA" crap.

The last time I looked, Indianapolis Indiana ca. December 1944 was in America, which makes me as much a native American as anyone here, regardless of whether my ancestors came over from Bavaria and England or via the Bering strait from Siberia.

If you're an American Indian and don't like the term "Indian" then tell me what tribal name you prefer, whether in English or your own tongue, and I'll be glad to refer to you that way. But anyone who insists on being called "Native American" because he's an Apache, Navajo, Cherokee, or whatever, is implying that I, solely because of my race, am not a native of America, and I consider that racism.

KENSHIRO -----> Instead of wasting your time trying to "educate" me, perhaps youd be better served helping your own, since they have not the ability to do so themselves....Now, these are not hardly all the links to SERVICES FOR NATIVE AMERICANS, but since I dont have the time to list all 719,549 matches that came back from MSN on that, Ill list a few,,,
The Administration for Native Americans (ANA) --->promotes the goal of social and economic self-sufficiency of American Indians, Alaska Natives, Native Hawaiians, and other Native American Pacific Islanders, including Native Samoans.

Or this one... For Tribal Governments and Native Americans.
This is a good one, as there around only a HUNDRED OR SO programs available.

Point? Get real. Noone is "holding" anything from the Indians. Its all there, right at there fingertips. Also, when I googled "help for the white man" I got zero responses. Am I angry? Nope. I dont need it. But man, if I had that much help in front of me, I'd be rich.....

spliff4020
I give up. You are clearly a completely lost cause and I will not continue to put out the hand, nor attempt to find a middle ground as you are so stuck in the mud and slime of your beliefs.
You continually only read and see what you want. If you wish to keep your blindness. If you wish to keep your extreme bigoted outlook. Well, I really feel sorry for you and anyone that has to have cointact with you.
Keep your narrow-minded, biased opiions. You remind me of the "typical" White man that MalcolmX refered to. I do not agree with his thoughts but you certainly fit the bill.
Maybe someday, you will open your eyes and "Deny Ignorance".
One last thing before I leave this thread for good. Yes I am an American, Yes I am also a Native American by birth, by genetic and by prefence. Am I am extremely proud of that heritage!

Sorry Off_The_Street, I was using that term in an attempt to be pc. not in any attempt to be racist.
I apologize if you took it that way.

How would you take it if I were a German and referred to myself as "The Master Race" like they did in the 'thirties?

There is nothing wrong with pride in one's heritage; my ethnic ancestors in England and Bavaria did many wonderful (and also many not-so-wonderful) things. But I don't consider myself to be any more (or less) American than anyone.

Originally posted by smallpeeps

We who survive demand justice.

Chakotay, all respect but what exactly would you consider justice for the slaughter of the Indians/NAs?

I would be curious to know more about those annals you mentioned. There were railcars full of indians and work camps? What year was that?

Smallpeeps. I will get to your first question last.

Ever hear the phrase 'honest Injun'? I drive my wife nuts because I never lie to her. So you want facts. Okay, I drop everything and provide documentation (should have right off the bat but I am tired from working).

Resources include:

Bureau of American Ethnology Annual Reports, Smithsonian Institution

United States Army Historical Series: THE ARMY IN THE INDIAN WARS, 1865-1890

Associations include:

Indian Wars Association

My own People were put in concentration camps in Georgia/North Carolina/ Tennessee in 1838. We were forced to march in the snow with our babies and old people to Death Camps in Oklahoma; some rode on on wagons, but not many. My ancestress died on the Trail of Tears when she gave her coat to a pregnant woman who had none. We still visit her gravestone by the side of the Trail. We were too tough to die off completely. The Churches in the US raised an outcry (particularly the Methodists), and so we were not all shot dead. What Hitler wanted to study was how he could exterminate entire races without popular outcry. He used the concentration camp method he learned from the Americans to get the Jews out of the public eye to places where he could privately kill them. Later Indian tribes were moved by train to Fort Sill Oklahoma and other extermination camps in Florida and elsewhere; Geronimo, the Avatar of the founder of this thread was on one such death camp train. He survived by pure determination. Many others died. The camp in Florida he was taken to first was chosen by the Army because of the presence of mosquito borne diseases that killed many prisoners. Guard duty there was 'punishment duty'. Blankets from smallpox patients were given to the prisoners; bad food; confinement; cold; torture and shootings killed many others.

We were forced to work in the camps. To this day my Lakota friends will not eat potatoes, after their ancestors were forced to grow them at gunpoint. Our children were dressed in white clothes, hair cut, shipped off to distant 'schools' where they were beaten if they spoke our languages and, well some things we do not talk about. We suffered 100,000,000 dead. We are still being persecuted today, in more subtle and sophisticated ways. But we go on.

Justice? Maybe you could tell me what you think that would be. I would say, live simply. Do not kill or opress others. Live and let live. Stop consuming the Earth to death. Make me free- free to roam and live and hunt and plant corn. You be free too. We could live together, your people and my people, in peace and freedom. If you guys would stop acting like Gods and start living like men. You can join us. That would be justice.

Or, y'all can just keep going on the way you are going. That too will be justice. Only problem is, we too will share your extinction.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Chakotay]

I just like the thought that there are ANY German Indians.....sort of a kick in the face to Hitler, lol....(I know, those germans are not the same)
Just like I enjoy having a white friend with a black husband when her grandaddy was a member of the KKK. It's great. IT emans people are individuals, and always will be.


We do need to remember the things that happen. Forgetting can cause us danger, but over reacting over history can give us a whole NEW set of problems.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
spliff4020
I give up. You are clearly a completely lost cause and I will not continue to put out the hand, nor attempt to find a middle ground as you are so stuck in the mud and slime of your beliefs.
You continually only read and see what you want. If you wish to keep your blindness. If you wish to keep your extreme bigoted outlook. Well, I really feel sorry for you and anyone that has to have cointact with you.
Keep your narrow-minded, biased opiions. You remind me of the "typical" White man that MalcolmX refered to. I do not agree with his thoughts but you certainly fit the bill.
Maybe someday, you will open your eyes and "Deny Ignorance".
One last thing before I leave this thread for good. Yes I am an American, Yes I am also a Native American by birth, by genetic and by prefence. Am I am extremely proud of that heritage!

Ok, I will take that as your admission of defeat, Much like LadyVs. Say it however you like. You offered complaints, Ive offered solutions. Often times we dont like the solutions, so we resort to name calling. Point: your people are NOT oppresed, they have hundreds of programs all available to them. Perhaps you could put your PC to better use and invite some "native" friends over to show them the ENDLESS OPPORTUNITY to better themselves.

so indians were inocent? you all act as if your people didnt slaughter white settlements and our people were brutal murderers, do you forget in most cases our people were doing such things in response to your people slaughtering our settlements, your people werent less guilty, dont act like it was all our fault.

I think any country giving their native peoples all their lands back is a bit extreme
[edit on 4-2-2005 by Trent]

Land that is rightfully someone elses should be given back. Being someone whos ancesters land has been stolen and evan divided now I can tell you it sucks. When you look at a map it just breaks your heart. I want Bosnia and Herzegovina back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps another look at Darwinism is in order here. 100 Million Indians and yet so technologically backwards that a few thousand invaders where able to wipe out 80-90% of their population.

This is what happens when you sit around content in ANY system in nature. A bigger predator comes along and knocks you down on the food chain.

This happens to EVERY species. Mutations that help in an environment will lead to the mutant dominating that environment. Use ability and implementation of tool usage is highly desirable in any species and, as we have witnessed, the more advanced the tools generally the higher level of dominance of the species.

So, guess the Indians progressed slower than the Europeans. Nature rewarded both in the time honored tradition. One was wiped out and the other gained resources.

It’s the way the UNIVERSE works folks, and bitching about it will do nothing to help. The Indian society / technology was not up to the challenges a new species (or in this case cousin species) brought to the table They got wiped out and the superior species gained thier resources.

Indians HAD the bigger territory and plenty of resources before the Europeans came….just didn’t use them in the same manner.

Will the same thing happen to Europeans one day? Perhaps…if they stop taking Nature’s laws to heart.

Mr Nice has a point here...it's called Social Darwinism. What do you expect when you pit a near-industrial civilization against neolithic savages?

Originally posted by Croat56

I think any country giving their native peoples all their lands back is a bit extreme
[edit on 4-2-2005 by Trent]

Land that is rightfully someone elses should be given back. Being someone whos ancesters land has been stolen and evan divided now I can tell you it sucks. When you look at a map it just breaks your heart. I want Bosnia and Herzegovina back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for taking what i said out of context. I agree taking someones land is wrong but when it has been done before your life time all that a society can do is say they are sorry and help anyone effected by the terrible things that happened lead good lives in the present. The full quote.

"I think any country giving their native peoples all their lands back is a bit extreme, especially after many others have been calling it home for years."